Forest River not handling Furrion fridge issues well

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Dsimes

Not new to towable RVs, just first time buying a new RV. Have owned quite a few used RVs and all had at least dual fuel refrigerators in them so the batteries were not an issue like they are in this one with 12V only fridge.

Understandable. Since we dry camp quite a bit, I would never have a 12v ONLY fridge.

[Dsimes]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Understandable. Since we dry camp quite a bit, I would never have a 12v ONLY fridge.

Unfortunately there was no other choice as Forest River decided to switch to 12V only in the new Wolf Pups TTs.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Dsimes

Unfortunately there was no other choice as Forest River decided to switch to 12V only in the new Wolf Pups TTs.

Well, if that was the only option, we would look elsewhere.

[babock]

If you have the right capacity of batteries and solar, it's fine for dry camping. If you don't do your homework and think a couple 6v batteries and a 100w solar panel is going to cut it, you are in fantasy land.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by babock

If you have the right capacity of batteries and solar, it's fine for dry camping. If you don't do your homework and think a couple 6v batteries and a 100w solar panel is going to cut it, you are in fantasy land.

You're probably right. But there's no room for more than 2 batteries on the tongue and I'm not willing to buy expensive Lithium or AGM batteries, just to have a 12v fridge.
2-way RV fridges have worked just fine for us, for 15 years.

[babock]

I already have 2 lithium and they are off my tongue and under my bed. Much less tongue weight. Love the simplicity of lithium along with all it's other features. I will definitely buy a 12v fridge when my original fails. Will be nice having 10 cuft vs my present 6.

Originally Posted by bikendan

You're probably right. But there's no room for more than 2 batteries on the tongue and I'm not willing to buy expensive Lithium or AGM batteries, just to have a 12v fridge.
2-way RV fridges have worked just fine for us, for 15 years.

[slammer]

After about 7 weeks we finally got the Grey Wolf back withe new GE refrigerator. The mounting is a little different so they told me to be mindful of it shifting slightly on the left side. The unit appears to be a slight upgrade from the furrion. that's just going by looks, it's also much quieter than the furrion was. I left it on on the way home from the dealer and it was nice and cold when I got to my storage spot. I left it running (plugged into 110) over the weekend and went back last night to make sure it was running and it was. I'm not sure how long it would run on the battery. I feel confident it would run over night but I'm not sure how much longer. I just hope this one doesn't crap out on me like the other did. It's nice to have my tinihome back and I'm looking forward to our next adventure.

[acadianbob]

Originally Posted by babock

If you have the right capacity of batteries and solar, it's fine for dry camping. If you don't do your homework and think a couple 6v batteries and a 100w solar panel is going to cut it, you are in fantasy land.

True enough. We just spent 8 days dry camping with our 5er; 110V residential refrigerator; 11cf LG. We did fine. 130W solar kept batteries topped off during the day. A couple of hours of generator time in the morning and a couple of hours in the evening. So, it can be done.

It's a trade-off. Certainly a MUCH better freezer. And 90% of our camping is with electricity available. So mostly the residential is a benefit. Certainly more challenging when dry camping. 10 hours of inverter time would pull about 45% of our amp hr capacity; two group 27, 95 amp hr 12 volt in parallel.

The truck keeps the batteries at 100% when towing but doesn't do much to charge the batteries if they are at say 75%.

[SetauketJeff]

I was in the residential and commercial solar business (designer, engineering and sales) and a lobbyist for very large Solar Business Association in our State. Many of the larger installers and parts distributors are sitting on inventory that they cannot sell. These consist of panels two years or older, and small numbers of new odd lots. Distributors purchase panels by the truckload and container load and are sometimes left with 15 or less from each lot that won't get sold because customers want matching panels installed.



These panels all start at over 200watts. If you can do a little wiring, you can get these for a song and string them together (panel recycling isn't yet happening and these panels are taking up space). The trick is knowing how to connect them to your TT and install the proper regulator and fusing. These panels are bulky, but light and can be stored in your TT when traveling.



Beware: When the sun is out and you're generating power, the power needs a place to go. If you're using less power than you're generating, and your batteries are fully charged, that power will be converted to heat and you will get an electrical fire. So be sure to calculate properly and use the proper regulating equipment to attach to your electrical system. ALWAYS, ALWAYS fuse your DC power lines from the solar array just in case the switching function of the regulator fails.


Make sure you specify that you're looking for DC panels, not AC Panels (ones with built in inverters), these are very complicated to use when not on a grid-tied system (I.E. your home where your meter can run backwards and the public utility can absorb your excess production).

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by SetauketJeff

I was in the residential and commercial solar business (designer, engineering and sales) and a lobbyist for very large Solar Business Association in our State. Many of the larger installers and parts distributors are sitting on inventory that they cannot sell. These consist of panels two years or older, and small numbers of new odd lots. Distributors purchase panels by the truckload and container load and are sometimes left with 15 or less from each lot that won't get sold because customers want matching panels installed.



These panels all start at over 200watts. If you can do a little wiring, you can get these for a song and string them together (panel recycling isn't yet happening and these panels are taking up space). The trick is knowing how to connect them to your TT and install the proper regulator and fusing. These panels are bulky, but light and can be stored in your TT when traveling.



Beware: When the sun is out and you're generating power, the power needs a place to go. If you're using less power than you're generating, and your batteries are fully charged, that power will be converted to heat and you will get an electrical fire. So be sure to calculate properly and use the proper regulating equipment to attach to your electrical system. ALWAYS, ALWAYS fuse your DC power lines from the solar array just in case the switching function of the regulator fails.


Make sure you specify that you're looking for DC panels, not AC Panels (ones with built in inverters), these are very complicated to use when not on a grid-tied system (I.E. your home where your meter can run backwards and the public utility can absorb your excess production).

Are you sure about this? I'd expect to hear about a lot more RVs spontaneously catching on fire if unused solar power were causing fires.

[SetauketJeff]

Originally Posted by GravelRider

Are you sure about this? I'd expect to hear about a lot more RVs spontaneously catching on fire if unused solar power were causing fires.

Please read carefully. The panels that come with RVs are 50 to 150 watts (toys in my business and would just about power a light bulb) and ARE connected to a regulator (RV industry calls them controllers). The RV kits you can buy run from 50 to 400 watts and come with a controller. In the solar business these systems are light bulbs as compared to a lighting tower, lets say at a MLB stadium.


The panels I'm talking about start at 200 watts (7 years old) and run to over 400 watts per panel (last 5 years). And I did mention stringing these together, storing them in the trailer...... So you take them out and set them up in the sun and run a line back to your RV/TT. Creating systems that could easily be over 2k (2,000 watts) for peanuts. This is perfect for boondocking for long periods. So when building your own inexpensive system from real residential panels (not toys), you need to understand the ramifications.



No one said anything about RVs burning up from 400 watt toys. So please read more carefully.

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by SetauketJeff

Please read carefully. The panels that come with RVs are 50 to 150 watts (toys in my business and would just about power a light bulb) and ARE connected to a regulator (RV industry calls them controllers). The RV kits you can buy run from 50 to 400 watts and come with a controller. In the solar business these systems are light bulbs as compared to a lighting tower, lets say at a MLB stadium.


The panels I'm talking about start at 200 watts (7 years old) and run to over 400 watts per panel (last 5 years). And I did mention stringing these together, storing them in the trailer...... So you take them out and set them up in the sun and run a line back to your RV/TT. Creating systems that could easily be over 2k (2,000 watts) for peanuts. This is perfect for boondocking for long periods. So when building your own inexpensive system from real residential panels (not toys), you need to understand the ramifications.



No one said anything about RVs burning up from 400 watt toys. So please read more carefully.

The condescending attitude isn't needed. I don't need to be told multiple times to read more carefully. Have a good day... and nice back-peddling.

[SetauketJeff]

Originally Posted by GravelRider

The condescending attitude isn't needed. I don't need to be told multiple times to read more carefully. Have a good day... and nice back-peddling.

Wow, pot calling the kettle with your "spontaneously catching on fire" remark. Yep, see you're a know it all. Have a bunch of over priced panels glued to your flat roof. Sorry, didn't mean to hit a nerve with my advice on how to pick up free or near free panels. Guess you also park it in the sun. Personally, I prefer to set up my trailer in the shade and put the PV panels in the sun. To each their own. You do know that they work much better when set at 38 degrees and South?



Hope, the other senior members here are not trolls too.

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by SetauketJeff

Wow, pot calling the kettle with your "spontaneously catching on fire" remark. Yep, see you're a know it all. Have a bunch of over priced panels glued to your flat roof. Sorry, didn't mean to hit a nerve with my advice on how to pick up free or near free panels. Guess you also park it in the sun. Personally, I prefer to set up my trailer in the shade and put the PV panels in the sun. To each their own. You do know that they work much better when set at 38 degrees and South? .



Hope, the other senior members here are not trolls too.

You're mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions about me, including any ill intentions of my first reply to you. But, let's get past name calling and personal insults if you don't mind.

I'm far from a senior member. I'm just as new as you are, and much newer to solar. As it happens, I have two 400 watt residential panels bolted to my RV with an appropriately sized controller. My batteries spend most of their life fully charged. Common advice is to oversize a solar setup if you are going to flat mount or camp in the shade mostly (both of which apply to me). I've never heard of fires in RVs due to solar power generation with a full battery bank, and I did a lot of reading while designing my solar setup. Now I'm new to RVs and solar, and was hoping that you would quantify your statement earlier about fires when "you're using less power than you're generating, and your batteries are fully charged." As far as I was aware, a solar charge controller curtails any power not being used (basically creating an open circuit), unless, of course, the power is instead diverted to some sort of power sink, such as heating water. Unless I'm incorrect in my understanding of how a solar charge controller handles excess power after the battery bank is full, what am I missing?

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by GravelRider

You're mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions about me, including any ill intentions of my first reply to you. But, let's get past name calling and personal insults if you don't mind.

I'm far from a senior member. I'm just as new as you are, and much newer to solar. As it happens, I have two 400 watt residential panels bolted to my RV with an appropriately sized controller. My batteries spend most of their life fully charged. Common advice is to oversize a solar setup if you are going to flat mount or camp in the shade mostly (both of which apply to me). I've never heard of fires in RVs due to solar power generation with a full battery bank, and I did a lot of reading while designing my solar setup. Now I'm new to RVs and solar, and was hoping that you would quantify your statement earlier about fires when "you're using less power than you're generating, and your batteries are fully charged." As far as I was aware, a solar charge controller curtails any power not being used (basically creating an open circuit), unless, of course, the power is instead diverted to some sort of power sink, such as heating water. Unless I'm incorrect in my understanding of how a solar charge controller handles excess power after the battery bank is full, what am I missing?

Originally Posted by SetauketJeff

Wow, pot calling the kettle with your "spontaneously catching on fire" remark. Yep, see you're a know it all. Have a bunch of over priced panels glued to your flat roof. Sorry, didn't mean to hit a nerve with my advice on how to pick up free or near free panels. Guess you also park it in the sun. Personally, I prefer to set up my trailer in the shade and put the PV panels in the sun. To each their own. You do know that they work much better when set at 38 degrees and South?



Hope, the other senior members here are not trolls too.

Can I assume that by not answering my straightforward question that you're mistaken in your original assertion? I'm really hoping to find an answer. If I'm truly in danger of my rig burning down, I'd appreciate a response.

[babock]

LOL...any solar controller used these days does not convert excess solar power to heat. In fact, you can over panel any solar controller for more than the controller is rated and the controller just reduced the output current to it's rating.

A PWM controller will do this with duty cycling. An MPPT does similar but it's easier with a DC to DC converter

[SetauketJeff]

Sorry Gravel, really busy week.


and, sorry if I confused you with someone else. Truce.


The packaged systems are all safe. Your 800watt system should be more than fine.


I posted to let the members here know that there are other much less expensive alternatives to the packaged systems. And wanted to warn about some of the pitfalls of designing your own system if your not 100% familiar with what you're doing. I was giving the 20k ft. view and not going into PVWatts, String design and calculation, nor output optimization and power requirements.



Personally, I'd only use RV rooftop solar as a battery tender (for when the RV/TT is not in use and you don't plug into shore power). Flat installs aren't the most efficient, and most are docked in the shade.



So I was suggesting means of acquiring FREE or very inexpensive panels to set up at your camp site (with research one would learn to set them up at 38 degrees and south). My warning was meant to be twofold: 1) Always fuse the input side of the controller. 2) Know what you're doing so you don't over energize the output side.



It is correct that these controllers are just that, controllers (not inverters like a residential system), and create an open when the output side has no load. In essence, these RV/TT systems are off-grid, and have no means of sending excess production back out and onto the grid (I.E. run your utility meter backwards).



In the solar business, Residential Panels are the ones that are finished (usually in black or brown) and have darker cell backings where the cell is less visible. Commercial panels are "ugly" in that they are silver framed with no finish and have cells where the backing material does not hide the actual cell. These are usually installed on flat roofs, over commercial carports and ground mount utility projects (where aesthetics are not a concern). They are less expensive than residential. In my opinion, they might even look better on the white roof of a RV/TT, if one decides to put them there.


You also need to keep in mind that some camp sites don't let you set up your panels and run a wire back to your rig. So rooftop may be the only option for some.


One last caution, when ever the sky is light (even at dusk and dawn), the panel is producing, so don't make yourself the ground when handling them or the wiring. If you're RV/TT is under a spot light at night, it can produce. This is a major concern to fire departments, as the first thing they do when arriving to a fire at night, is shine their strobes onto the building that is on fire. In the case like a home like mine, that would immediately energize the panels sending 600volts DC through all the wiring. Not a good place to be with an ax and looking to vent a fire.

[Tonyg2724]

Can you reference a source or starting search point for these so called “almost free” panels? Just something to get us pointed in the direction.

[SetauketJeff]

Originally Posted by Tonyg2724

Can you reference a source or starting search point for these so called “almost free” panels? Just something to get us pointed in the direction.

Google electrical and / or solar supply houses in your area. You're not going to find anyone willing to ship these. Also look for the larger solar installers in your area. Including the ones who sell the leased systems. Some may hold onto their older panels for warranty and/or tree damage replacement, but many where I'm from, Long Island NY, are swimming in 5 to 15 year old panels and don't want to send them to the dump. Supposedly there will be panel recycling centers set up (as the panels age out around 25-40 years old), but I have yet to hear of or see one.



Many installers installed systems on older roofs. Which cause the roofs to prematurely fail (leak). Many times these panels are not reinstalled after the roof is replaced. Panels will produce for 25 - 40 years at a slightly less efficiency over time (depending upon their location).

[SetauketJeff]

Originally Posted by babock

LOL...any solar controller used these days does not convert excess solar power to heat. In fact, you can over panel any solar controller for more than the controller is rated and the controller just reduced the output current to it's rating.

A PWM controller will do this with duty cycling. An MPPT does similar but it's easier with a DC to DC converter

Components fail, and I don't have too much faith in some of these China controllers. So it's important to fuse.



https://www.google.com/search?source...w=1244&bih=629


And lets not talk about how squirrels love the taste of wire insulation. Have installed many systems with standoffs to make the area under the panels less favorable for nesting. The good news is that most RV/TTs don't make it easy for them to get up there.