Fridge that opens from both sides - I'm not a fan

[D W]

Originally Posted by BuickGS

For anyone interested, here's a link to an Everchill/Furrion fridge, same as my Magic Chef fridge. They call it a refrigerator with a "dual swing door".

Because of things like this I steer clear of the new stuff. A lot of these products appear to come from the "good idea fairy".

[BuickGS]

DW - To me (an ex-product designer/design engineer/chief engineer for over 45 years), I think one of the main contributors (but not the only contributor) to most of the bad design, unsafe and/or poor quality products, and designs that are not thought out completely, is from all of the cost cutting that has happened in US manufacturing/design over the past several decades, trying to compete with overseas manufacturers and trying to get new product out the door quickly and inexpensively, which allows things like this to come to fruition. Not just in the RV industry, but everywhere. I won't mention what role I think some of these Millennial and Gen Z designers might have also played in some of the questionable designs I see out there.

I think the concept - a refrigerator that you can open the door on from both sides without having to switch the hinges around - is great (new for the RV industry, but not a new idea), but the execution was flawed. You can't have doors falling off and people getting hurt just because someone unknowingly and/or accidentally didn't close the door fully. This doesn't happen with current RV fridges or your home fridge. There could have been an interlock feature designed into the refrigerator preventing someone from opening the door from one side if the opposite side was not fully latched - with a "not fully closed" LED indicator lamp, but that would have cost money.

[D W]

I call it over-designed. All this new stuff is aimed at the customer, but the customer's left holding the bag when it doesn't work, and there YOU are. All my refrigerator/freezers have doors that are reversible, but they don't fall off it they ain't shut right. You can never go wrong with the K.I.S.S. Principle.

[BuickGS]

Yes, the KISS principle is what I lived by when designing...

[dwilli1]

I have that fridge in my '24 2608bs Rockwood. Before the dealer gave me the walk-through I went in on my own and had the freezer door fall off and onto the floor putting a gouge in my brand new Rockwood flooring. Later I looked and yes, there was a sticker in plain view that explained how NOT to open the door with both handles.
One guy here said to file a complaint but it's not really a defect. It just needs to be latched fully. I like the idea, at least in my floorplan: if you're in the kitchen you can open from that side; if you're just reaching in from outside you can open from the other side. Yes, it does latch a little hard and it's never happened again.

[BuickGS]

dwilli1- Yes, if you pull on both latches at the same time for the same door (the left and the right latch), the door will come off - I guess by design. That's not what happened to me.

I pulled on one latch, but because the opposite latch had not fully caught the previous day when the door was closed - the door fell off and I got hurt. This (to me) is a design defect. Some people might say that it was user error caused by whoever didn't fully close the door the night before, but I don't buy that.

Tell that to the 6 year old kid that doesn't fully close the door one day and his 4 year old sister goes to open the door later on from the opposite side and has the door fall off on top of her.

Your home refrigerator door and all the other RV refrigerator doors don't fall off when you go to open them, if you didn't close them all the way the last time you were in the fridge.

Sorry to hear that your door fell and damaged your floor, but at least you didn't get hurt. I see the convenience of having a door that opens both ways, but I'll take the safety of having fixed mine so it only opens one way and will never fall off again.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by BuickGS

I think the concept - a refrigerator that you can open the door on from both sides without having to switch the hinges around - is great (new for the RV industry, but not a new idea), but the execution was flawed. You can't have doors falling off and people getting hurt just because someone unknowingly and/or accidentally didn't close the door fully. This doesn't happen with current RV fridges or your home fridge. There could have been an interlock feature designed into the refrigerator preventing someone from opening the door from one side if the opposite side was not fully latched - with a "not fully closed" LED indicator lamp, but that would have cost money.

There is one situation where it would be helpful. Our 2008 Cherokee 38P has a residential refrigerator. The refrigerator is placed against a wall on the right side, and the door is hinged on the right. The refrigerator has two metal drawers side-by-side on the bottom. The door will not open wide enough to open the right side door. It's never had anything in it. I finally unscrewed the anchor screws and pulled the refrigerator out enough to twist it and remove the inaccessible drawer. Now we can put items in that spot but have to go on hands and knees to see what's there.

A door hinged on the left would be a very big nuisance to walk around on every access, but a well-designed two-way door would be very useful.

[BuickGS]

Larry-NC:

Yep, I can see where in your situation the duel swing door fridge would be helpful.

It was also helpful in my situation since we have an island near the front of the refrigerator and it was somewhat convenient to have the door open to the left when coming from the kitchen and to have it open to the right when coming over from the living room area. I see many floorplans where this type of fridge could be helpful/convenient... but not if the door is going to fall off occasionally. They got to fix that!

[NXR]

Originally Posted by dwilli1

One guy here said to file a complaint but it's not really a defect.

Anything with the potential to injure someone like it already has is defective. That cannot be worked around with a sticker. As BuickGS noted, little kids open fridge doors.

If one side is unlatched or partially latched the other side should be locked out.

Ray

[dwilli1]

Originally Posted by NXR

Anything with the potential to injure someone like it already has is defective. That cannot be worked around with a sticker. As BuickGS noted, little kids open fridge doors.

If one side is unlatched or partially latched the other side should be locked out.

Ray

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A design flaw possibly but it's not considered a "defect". A defect means there was a flaw in the manufacture of this and could be replaced (likely under a warranty). It would be replaced with the same. That is the way it was designed. It's not working in a way they didn't intend. If you're going to file a complaint state your case that it's dangerous, not defective. Slamming your fingers in a car door is dangerous, but not defective.
I personally believe if a 6 year old child was shown how you have to operate the door and show them how to push it (as opposed to your home refrigerator with magnetic catch) they would learn. You definitely have to close it hard but that is the design of this. You can always get a different style.

Of all the complaints with this model, it's mostly been that it doesn't cool the fridge portion. It DOES close hard but that's what you have to do to get a 'swing-door' refrigerator.

[Aussieguy]

what is really scary is now they trying to add motors to trailer wheels
powered by a huge battery under the floor

theory being you can get good gas mileage.

wonder if the designer has ever pulled a trailer ?

[NXR]

Originally Posted by dwilli

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A design flaw possibly but it's not considered a "defect". A defect means there was a flaw in the manufacture of this and could be replaced (likely under a warranty). It would be replaced with the same. That is the way it was designed. It's not working in a way they didn't intend. If you're going to file a complaint state your case that it's dangerous, not defective.

Perhaps not to lawyers but to the injured person it's a distinction without a difference. To regulators it's also a distinction without a difference because either can result in an unreasonable safety risk, whether intentional or not.

I've filed several safety complaints and no federal or state form had a checkbox for "design flaw" or "defect" because it simply does not matter from a regulatory perspective.

One helped result in a recall of almost 7,000 motorhomes with about a dozen owner-submitted reports.

The chronology for the recent recall of the early versions of the current V8 Ford chassis that resulted in the recall of about 26,000 motorhomes and delivery vehicles shows the NHTSA started their investigation after only four (4) motorhome owners filed complaints.

Consumers have a lot more power over defective products than they may realize and it all starts with a formal complaint to a regulator.


GM pulled that "It's a feature and not a bug" nonsense: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/04...cts-dismissed/

GM claims the problems with the transmission do not fall under the factory warranty, as it is a design defect and not a manufacturing defect. According to GM’s motion to dismiss, which was obtained by Car Complaints, the automaker’s warranty is only for vehicles that have “a defect that is so basic it renders the vehicle unfit for its ordinary purpose of providing transportation.”

So another case was filed but not as a design defect and got granted class action status: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/03...action-status/

I'll bet their lawyers are congratulating themselves over how that turned out, eh?


Designs, intentional or not, cannot be unreasonably dangerous for consumer usage.

If a product creates an undue risk a complaint is warranted whether it is a design flaw or a manufacturing defect. A rose by any other name kind of thing.

A refrigerator door that falls off during normal usage is an unreasonably dangerous product regardless of whether it was designed that way or not.


But we're getting off topic so this will be my last post on that aspect.

Ray

[dwilli1]

Originally Posted by NXR

Perhaps not to lawyers but to the injured person it's a distinction without a difference. To regulators it's also a distinction without a difference because either can result in an unreasonable safety risk, whether intentional or not.

I've filed several safety complaints and no federal or state form had a checkbox for "design flaw" or "defect" because it simply does not matter from a regulatory perspective.

One helped result in a recall of almost 7,000 motorhomes with about a dozen owner-submitted reports.

The chronology for the recent recall of the early versions of the current V8 Ford chassis that resulted in the recall of about 26,000 motorhomes and delivery vehicles shows the NHTSA started their investigation after only four (4) motorhome owners filed complaints.

Consumers have a lot more power over defective products than they may realize and it all starts with a formal complaint to a regulator.


GM pulled that "It's a feature and not a bug" nonsense: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/04...cts-dismissed/

GM claims the problems with the transmission do not fall under the factory warranty, as it is a design defect and not a manufacturing defect. According to GM’s motion to dismiss, which was obtained by Car Complaints, the automaker’s warranty is only for vehicles that have “a defect that is so basic it renders the vehicle unfit for its ordinary purpose of providing transportation.”

So another case was filed but not as a design defect and got granted class action status: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/03...action-status/

I'll bet their lawyers are congratulating themselves over how that turned out, eh?


Designs, intentional or not, cannot be unreasonably dangerous for consumer usage.

If a product creates an undue risk a complaint is warranted whether it is a design flaw or a manufacturing defect. A rose by any other name kind of thing.

A refrigerator door that falls off during normal usage is an unreasonably dangerous product regardless of whether it was designed that way or not.


But we're getting off topic so this will be my last post on that aspect.

Ray

I agree. It's just not a manufacturing defect. Design defect maybe. Also, I haven't seen any postings here or on Facebook that concur with the complaint. Like I said, it's mostly about the damn thing not cooling the fridge portion.

[BuickGS]

dwilli -

Oh, it definitely would be considered a defect... a "design defect" (which is what I called it earlier). You can also call it a "design flaw" if you prefer. If you do a search of "what is a design defect", you'll get many results similar to the results below. I think in this case, "design defect" describes this refrigerator door latching mechanism design, to a tee.

"McCann Dillon Jaffe & Lamb, LLC:
A design defect means that something inherent in the product’s design makes it unreasonably dangerous to the user. The defect generally affects the entire product line, rather than just one unit. It is not the result of a manufacturing error, as the defect occurred in the design stage."

"design defect | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute:
People also ask
What does defect in design mean?
A design defect means that the product was manufactured correctly, but the defect is inherent in the design of the product itself, which makes the product dangerous to consumers. For example, mechanical defects, which are common in cars and other motor vehicles."

"What Is a Design Defect? | Kansas City Product Liability Lawyer:
For example, a chest of drawers may be structurally unstable and prone to tipping over. An electric saw may have a safety guard, but due to its improper design, a user can still experience injuries."

[NXR]

Originally Posted by dwilli1

I agree. It's just not a manufacturing defect. Design defect maybe. Also, I haven't seen any postings here or on Facebook that concur with the complaint. Like I said, it's mostly about the damn thing not cooling the fridge portion.

Dude, it's in an RV. It probably was an installation error.

I'd love to know the exact model number to see if there is an Owners Manual note to not install it in an RV.

From reading, a common installation error with a non-RV fridge is that the clearances and venting around the residential fridge are non-existent or wholly inadequate. One person installed a grill at the top of their fridge where there were just some small vent holes and was shocked at how much heat came out.

Ray

[BuickGS]

NXR - Here is a link to the owners manual:

http://https://forestriverinc.com/files/Component-Manuals/Appliance/Everchill%20%20-%20Refrigerator%20Model%20SRD-360WTG-ED%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf

[dwilli1]

Originally Posted by NXR

Dude, it's in an RV. It probably was an installation error.

I'd love to know the exact model number to see if there is an Owners Manual note to not install it in an RV.

From reading, a common installation error with a non-RV fridge is that the clearances and venting around the residential fridge are non-existent or wholly inadequate. One person installed a grill at the top of their fridge where there were just some small vent holes and was shocked at how much heat came out.

Ray

No, it's definitely designed to be placed in an RV. Hey, I don't think it's entirely safe. Playing devils advocate here. I just think there are few if any incidences that believe this is a design defect/flaw/mistake. And the lawyers appear to be on top of it with their cautions #11 and #12.

[Aussieguy]

watch out if you take grand kids camping near hills or sand dunes

Wire that door in place with a padlock!

[BuickGS]

Originally Posted by dwilli1

...And the lawyers appear to be on top of it with their cautions #11 and #12.

If you notice item #13 in the owners manual (see link I previously provided), it says: "13. When user cannot open the door at one side, please check if the other side of the door is fully closed. It is a must that one side of the door is fully closed, then user is allowed to open the other side."

It appears by this statement to me that the design intent was to not allow you to open the door from one side if the other side is not fully closed. This part of the design does not seem to be working however, at least it wasn't on my fridge.

I have already contacted Forest River and Rockwood. Summing up the initial reply I received back from them was that they are aware of the issue and are working with the refrigerator manufacturer on the latching mechanism to prevent this from happening. So I take it that I wasn't the only one this has happened to and that they realize that this is a real problem.

[dwilli1]

Originally Posted by BuickGS

If you notice item #13 in the owners manual (see link I previously provided), it says: "13. When user cannot open the door at one side, please check if the other side of the door is fully closed. It is a must that one side of the door is fully closed, then user is allowed to open the other side."

It appears by this statement to me that the design intent was to not allow you to open the door from one side if the other side is not fully closed. This part of the design does not seem to be working however, at least it wasn't on my fridge.

I have already contacted Forest River and Rockwood. Summing up the initial reply I received back from them was that they are aware of the issue and are working with the refrigerator manufacturer on the latching mechanism to prevent this from happening. So I take it that I wasn't the only one this has happened to and that they realize that this is a real problem.

Here's the warnings I was referring to: "11. Your refrigerator is not intended for use by any person(including children)with reduced physical, sensory, or mental capabilities, or lack of experience and knowledge, unless given supervision or instruction concerning use of your refrigerator by a person responsible for their safety. 12. Children should be supervised to ensure that they do not play with your refrigerator."

I look forward to the recall!