Furrion Vehicle Observation System

[ChrisPBacon]

Sorry to do this to you, but I purchased the Furrion Vision S Vehicle Observation System from my Rockwood Signature dealer and had the system work only three times.

System: 7” Monitor; side marker lights with cameras; rear camera.

Wondering what switch we’ve reset to lose the camera feed.

We were told that the tow vehicle lights MUST be on MANUAL for the system to work: DONE.

TV-TT connections all made, TV headlights on MANUAL, nothing on any of the three channels “Left, rear, right”. Monitor DOES have power from the TV, monitor graphics come up… but just NO picture.

Does the trailer WiFi have to be on? Dealer said they don’t believe so.

Does the trailer INVERTER system need to be on? Dealer said they don't believe so.

Interesting to note that when the Furrion VOS monitor is powered by the TV and is on, and the monitor is mounted in the windshield right below the rear view mirror, when it was raining, every time the windshield wipers (auto mode) would activate, the Dodge center console would go completely black and remain OFF until we unplugged and removed the Furrion VOS monitor mounted below.

I’d show you a video but don’t yet know how to load one to this forum.

Furrion web site is as useful as a bicycle is for a flounder. Customer Service? Only in my dreams.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Incantations?

[Jimbo K.]

My dealer said the TV headlight switch had to be turned to at least have running lights on, that the camera was powered through that circuit on the trailer.

A couple of times my monitor also had no image even with the headlight switch in the right position. Troubleshooting quickly revealed the trailer running lights were not on. The 7-pin plug appeared to be fully seated in the socket, but an extra push on it did the trick.

[itat]

Did the dealer install it? As long as your trailer marker lights are on, the camera should be getting power. Perhaps the connector on the power cable has come apart? You’ll have to uninstall the camera to make sure its getting power unless there is some kind of indicator light on the camera.

[5picker]

On my Furrion Observation system the cameras have small blue LED lights that tell you if the camera has power. The blue LED light is also used when putting the camera in paring mode with the monitor.

Do you see any light(s)?

[Rhumblefish]

I'll bet your new Dodge has LED daytime running lights (DRL) AND I can tell you what's going on with your Furrion...


Do any search for "PWM and Furrion problem," or visit this thread.

Long story short, new vehicles using PWM ("Pulse width modulation") as a part of their power management - including LED lighting - don't provide enough consistent/coherent 12v power for the rear camera to function AND broadcast when plugged into the built-in harness.

The fix has been either a series of inline capacitors, or powering the camera from a 12v system OTHER than the tow vehicle (like the onboard battery). I bought an inline connection (installs between the TV and TT at the seven-pin connector) and works a treat.



also:


1. Tow vehicle lights MUST be on MANUAL for the system to work: YES
2. Does the trailer WiFi have to be on? NO
3. Does the trailer INVERTER system need to be on? NO

The issue is almost always the camera not getting enough coherent 12 power, and aligned with tow vehicles that use PWM (look for LED daytime running lights on the TV).

Interesting side note: this is directly related to how LEDs seem to strobe on camera:

It’s possible for LED lights powered by drivers to exhibit flickering. In order to achieve a reduction in power consumption, the power supply can be bundled into discrete pulses of current, instead of a continuous power supply. This results in flickering similar to that observed in alternating current. This is known as pulse width modulation. Pulse width modulation is commonly employed in dimming lights and automotive daytime running lights.




Just my .02, hope this helps.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by itat

Did the dealer install it? As long as your trailer marker lights are on, the camera should be getting power. Perhaps the connector on the power cable has come apart? You’ll have to uninstall the camera to make sure its getting power unless there is some kind of indicator light on the camera.

My dealer installed the system.

My first assumption is usually that I’ve done something to create a problem and troubleshoot from there. Connection is solid at the TV; if the side marker lights are on, the camera has power. I checked continuity of pins on TT and TV: good on both. Cleaned all pins, receptacles and plugs… no joy.

I asked about the WiFi because I noticed an antenna typical of wireless devices on top of the rear camera.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by 5picker

On my Furrion Observation system the cameras have small blue LED lights that tell you if the camera has power. The blue LED light is also used when putting the camera in paring mode with the monitor.

Do you see any light(s)?

Lights are on… 3 of them. Just no image from camera.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

I'll bet your new Dodge has LED lights AND I can tell you what's going on with your Furrion...


Do any search for "PWM and Furrion," or visit this thread.

Long story short, new vehicles using PWM ("Pulse width modulation") as a part of their power management - including LED lighting - don't provide enough 12v power for the rear camera to function and broadcast when plugged into the built-in harness. The fix has been either a series of inline capacitors, or powering the camera from a 12v system OTHER than the tow vehicle (like the onboard battery).

I think you’re on to something here, but how it’s going to get fixed is another thing altogether.

Thank you.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

Lights are on… 3 of them. Just no image from camera.

Have you tried re-paring the cameras to your monitor?

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

I think you’re on to something here, but how it’s going to get fixed is another thing altogether.

Thank you.

Sure thing. The potential fix is simple. Buy this and see if it cures your woes.

https://www.amazon.com/CURT-57003-LED-Compatible-Vehicle-Side-Trailer/dp/B00AFVOF3M

$27, free delivery and free returns.

It's super simple to plug in. If it works, you know what the issue is and have fixed it (or can do something different). If it doesn't, return it and you're not out anything.

ALTERNATIVELY, you can try plugging into an older truck that doesn't have PWM. Bet you a nice cold beer (or a hot cup of coffee) that it addresses your issue.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

I'll bet your new Dodge has LED daytime running lights (DRL) AND I can tell you what's going on with your Furrion...


Do any search for "PWM and Furrion problem," or visit this thread.

Long story short, new vehicles using PWM ("Pulse width modulation") as a part of their power management - including LED lighting - don't provide enough consistent/coherent 12v power for the rear camera to function AND broadcast when plugged into the built-in harness.

The fix has been either a series of inline capacitors, or powering the camera from a 12v system OTHER than the tow vehicle (like the onboard battery). I bought an inline connection (installs between the TV and TT at the seven-pin connector) and works a treat.



also:


1. Tow vehicle lights MUST be on MANUAL for the system to work: YES
2. Does the trailer WiFi have to be on? NO
3. Does the trailer INVERTER system need to be on? NO

The issue is almost always the camera not getting enough coherent 12 power, and aligned with tow vehicles that use PWM (look for LED daytime running lights on the TV).

Interesting side note: this is directly related to how LEDs seem to strobe on camera:

It’s possible for LED lights powered by drivers to exhibit flickering. In order to achieve a reduction in power consumption, the power supply can be bundled into discrete pulses of current, instead of a continuous power supply. This results in flickering similar to that observed in alternating current. This is known as pulse width modulation. Pulse width modulation is commonly employed in dimming lights and automotive daytime running lights.




Just my .02, hope this helps.

Ahh, Rhumble, you're overcomplicating the issue. It has nothing to do with sine-wave synthesis, or even true pulse-width modulation, where there is information in the width of the pulses. It's simpler than that. There are only three states, off, chopped waveform, or continuously hot.

Here's the simple form.
When cars/trucks used incandescent lamps, and a common lamp for taillights and brake/turn lights, the lamp (often 1157), had two filaments, a dim one for taillights and a bright one for brake/turn lights. When LEDs were introduced, manufacturers realized that they could use one LED in place of a two-filament lamp.

LEDs are current-mode devices--you have to drive them with a current-limited source. You can dim them by reducing the current, but it has the unfortunate side-effect of changing the color slightly. (It doesn't look right if the two taillights are different colors.) So what they did was hit on the idea of driving the LED with a square wave. It could be a 50% duty cycle (50%on, 50% off, or 30% duty cycle, 30% on, 30% off, for example.) By driving the light with full current, but only part of the time, the color didn't change.

If you raise the frequency high enough, the eye integrates the flashes and doesn't see the flicker. It doesn't have to be very high--we watch videos at 24 or 30 frames per second and don't see any flicker.

A problem occurs if you try to power a continuous-feed video camera from this square wave. It's like turning the camera on and off multiple times per second. The receiver doesn't have time to sync with the video signal before it goes away and then comes back. The trailer port on vehicles with have a factory-installed connector emulates the old-style signals--voltage mode, continuous, separate taillights and brake/turn signals.

On a motorhome there is a conversion box that accepts the square wave and produces a corresponding continuous wave. We've learned that on some Mercedes units, Forest River hides the factory-installed conversion box and installs a third-party unit (Curt?) that is prone to failure. No one has ever explained why this is.

Did you ever follow a car on the highway at night and glance at a taillight as your eye moved across it? And see, instead of a streak, a series of red streaks separated by darkness. Each spot corresponds to one pulse. If you look carefully at the size of the streaks compared to the dark spots in between, you can estimate the duty cycle of the square wave.

[Rhumblefish]

I think you wrote more words than I did, mate.

[5picker]

There's some long winded discussion here that may/may not pertain.

On my 2022 Cedar Creek with the Furrion 4 camera OBSERVATION system (I have a camera over the entry door that the OP doesn't have but the manual that came with mine says it's for either a 3 or 4 camera system) the cameras are powered anytime the battery cut-off switch is on. Doesn't matter if you are connected to a tow vehicle or whether the running lights are on. They do this so the OBSERVATION system can also be used to OBSERVE the perimeter of the R/V by using the monitor inside the R/V and connected to a 12v source (think security cameras)

To the OP, I'll ask this question again but rephrase it to include NOT having the tow vehicle connected... but... having the battery cut-off switch ON... do the blue LED camera indicator lights illuminate? If so you have a true observation system that was correctly installed to also be a security observation system. I'm not sure how Rockwood intends this to be connected but this is the way Cedar Creek does it.

If you have the blue LED illuminated, it is getting power and you need to re-pair the cameras to the monitor. (as I also asked the OP earlier) I had to do this 4-5 times because of a faulty monitor before it was finally replaced. No problems since.

Let us know what you find.

[timm9]

We just purchased a 2020 Ram 2500 CTD and was concerned that it would need an adaptor to ensure the Backup Cam had power. Turns out that it was not an issue and did not need the Adaptor. Camera worked as it did in my Gen 4.

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by 5picker

If you have the blue LED illuminated, it is getting power and you need to re-pair the cameras to the monitor. (as I also asked the OP earlier) I had to do this 4-5 times because of a faulty monitor before it was finally replaced.

For what it's worth, this condition (camera light(s) on. no picture at monitor) is also true/indicative of/seen as a result of the PWM issue.

Cameras get some power, not enough to function properly, re-pairing does not address (seen with both the Haloview and the Furrion systems I purchased and installed).

Just my .02. Your mileage may vary.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

For what it's worth, this condition (camera light(s) on. no picture at monitor) is also true/indicative of/seen as a result of the PWM issue.



Cameras get some power, not enough to function properly, re-pairing does not address (seen with both the Haloview and the Furrion systems I purchased and installed).



Just my .02. Your mileage may vary.

OK, fair enough.

If this is a power supply issue from the tow vehicle and the cameras are tied to the running lights, a simple test would be to jumper pin # 4 (battery/charge) to pin # 3 (running lights) in the 7 pin plug on the R/Vs umbilical cord.

This would fully power the camera (and running lights) and tell you if it's the tow vehicle.

Lots of folks (for reasons beyond me) do this in campgrounds to get noticed so it isn't anything out of the ordinary and certainly would eliminate the lack of power scenario.

There are commercial made plug adapters that do this or use a fuse holder (with wires) and a couple spade terminals.

[Rhumblefish]

great idea to jump for 12volt power to test, 5picker! No purchase necessary!

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by 5picker

There's some long winded discussion here that may/may not pertain.

On my 2022 Cedar Creek with the Furrion 4 camera OBSERVATION system (I have a camera over the entry door that the OP doesn't have but the manual that came with mine says it's for either a 3 or 4 camera system) the cameras are powered anytime the battery cut-off switch is on. Doesn't matter if you are connected to a tow vehicle or whether the running lights are on. They do this so the OBSERVATION system can also be used to OBSERVE the perimeter of the R/V by using the monitor inside the R/V and connected to a 12v source (think security cameras)

To the OP, I'll ask this question again but rephrase it to include NOT having the tow vehicle connected... but... having the battery cut-off switch ON... do the blue LED camera indicator lights illuminate? If so you have a true observation system that was correctly installed to also be a security observation system. I'm not sure how Rockwood intends this to be connected but this is the way Cedar Creek does it.

If you have the blue LED illuminated, it is getting power and you need to re-pair the cameras to the monitor. (as I also asked the OP earlier) I had to do this 4-5 times because of a faulty monitor before it was finally replaced. No problems since.

Let us know what you find.

I’m out of town for the next two weeks, so oonce I have access to the trailer, I’ll check.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by 5picker

There's some long winded discussion here that may/may not pertain.

On my 2022 Cedar Creek with the Furrion 4 camera OBSERVATION system (I have a camera over the entry door that the OP doesn't have but the manual that came with mine says it's for either a 3 or 4 camera system) the cameras are powered anytime the battery cut-off switch is on. Doesn't matter if you are connected to a tow vehicle or whether the running lights are on. They do this so the OBSERVATION system can also be used to OBSERVE the perimeter of the R/V by using the monitor inside the R/V and connected to a 12v source (think security cameras)

TTo the OP, I'll ask this question again but rephrase it to include NOT having the tow vehicle connected... but... having the battery cut-off switch ON... do the blue LED camera indicator lights illuminate? If so you have a true observation system that was correctly installed to also be a security observation system. I'm not sure how Rockwood intends this to be connected but this is the way Cedar Creek does it.

If you have the blue LED illuminated, it is getting power and you need to re-pair the cameras to the monitor. (as I also asked the OP earlier) I had to do this 4-5 times because of a faulty monitor before it was finally replaced. No problems since.

Let us know what you find.

Consulting the Forest River owners manual AND talking with the service manager to confirm this, there is no battery cutoff switch in the Rockwood Signature TT.

None… the very first thing to be fixed next month in my service visit.

[32742716]

I had the same problem you are having with your furrion system. My tow vehicle is a 2021gmc. Didn't have a problem with my old 2015 gmc. Contacted furrion and they provided me with cable that goes in series between the truck and the trailer. Problem solved. Hope this helps solve your problem.