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Old 02-21-2020, 09:44 AM   #1
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Generator last minute fubar. Try to make it better only to have it die

I am new to the forum and I don't know how to start a new thread so that I get people to respond to a problem that I am having now and not one from back in 2019. Sorry..I have a 2006 Forester. The generator was running good a little fast on the idle but good. It started to slightly begin to "hunt" again so I performed the seafoam, carb clean process by taking fuel pump hose off carb and direct inject from gas can. Carb still kind of "hunted" when I was doing the cleaning so I decide to remove the carb bowl. I did this before a couple times. I cleaned the bowl and altitude screw without removing it. I reassembled the carb bowl and now the generator wont even start. Turns over and acts like it wants to start but only sputters a couple times when I am holding down the start button. I noticed last night as I kept trying to start it that it started spitting out this black oily substance a little bit every time i tried to start it. I must have done something to that carb. Float is still there and float needle is still there (as far as I can tell) I did not remove anything other then the bowl. The oring on the bowl is still there. The one thing that I am not sure of is, is there supposed to be a "paper" washer in the bottom of the carb bowl in that small indention where the bowl face fits to the main jet by the floats when you tighten the bowl back on the carb. I thought that I saw on some video where it mentioned this paper washer. I have no idea what else I could have done. Took it off last night again and tested the plunger with 12 volts and it seems to actuate. It almost seems like it is starving for fuel. I tried both with the fuel pump line off and in a gallon jug and also reconnecting the fuel pump line. I even siponed the gas down the line from the jug and got that wonderful mouth full of fuel that everyone needs to experience at least once so I was sure there was fuel flowing from the jug and I hung it up higher than the generator (I can even spray starting fluid in the air filter chamber and it will not start. It tries sometimes but only when I hold down the button. It never has "run" again since I did that and it WAS starting and running with little problem only that it started to barely "hunt" when it was running. I have my brother and best friend coming in next week for a weekend of hunting and fishing and am really in a bad spot now since I have no generator..
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:59 AM   #2
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Assuming you have an Onan generator. Probably a 4000? Might look at a carb replacement. A quick search finds several on Amazon with carb, lines, filters, and gaskets for under $60.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:22 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rderricktaylor View Post
I am new to the forum and I don't know how to start a new thread so that I get people to respond to a problem that I am having now and not one from back in 2019. Sorry..I have a 2006 Forester. The generator was running good a little fast on the idle but good. It started to slightly begin to "hunt" again so I performed the seafoam, carb clean process by taking fuel pump hose off carb and direct inject from gas can. Carb still kind of "hunted" when I was doing the cleaning so I decide to remove the carb bowl. I did this before a couple times. I cleaned the bowl and altitude screw without removing it. I reassembled the carb bowl and now the generator wont even start. Turns over and acts like it wants to start but only sputters a couple times when I am holding down the start button. I noticed last night as I kept trying to start it that it started spitting out this black oily substance a little bit every time i tried to start it. I must have done something to that carb. Float is still there and float needle is still there (as far as I can tell) I did not remove anything other then the bowl. The oring on the bowl is still there. The one thing that I am not sure of is, is there supposed to be a "paper" washer in the bottom of the carb bowl in that small indention where the bowl face fits to the main jet by the floats when you tighten the bowl back on the carb. I thought that I saw on some video where it mentioned this paper washer. I have no idea what else I could have done. Took it off last night again and tested the plunger with 12 volts and it seems to actuate. It almost seems like it is starving for fuel. I tried both with the fuel pump line off and in a gallon jug and also reconnecting the fuel pump line. I even siponed the gas down the line from the jug and got that wonderful mouth full of fuel that everyone needs to experience at least once so I was sure there was fuel flowing from the jug and I hung it up higher than the generator (I can even spray starting fluid in the air filter chamber and it will not start. It tries sometimes but only when I hold down the button. It never has "run" again since I did that and it WAS starting and running with little problem only that it started to barely "hunt" when it was running. I have my brother and best friend coming in next week for a weekend of hunting and fishing and am really in a bad spot now since I have no generator..

Did you by chance foul the plugs ? pull and clean them first and try again
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:27 AM   #4
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Did you by chance foul the plugs ? pull and clean them first and try again
Yep, good idea. Maybe time for a tune up kit and a new carb
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
I noticed last night as I kept trying to start it that it started spitting out this black oily substance a little bit every time i tried to start it
I assume this is coming out of the exhaust? This is probably just unburnt fuel going into and out of the engine.

IN my area there are at least two small engine repair places. Without taking the genny out, I would call and see if you can find a tech to take a look at the genny while still installed. Small engine carbs are pretty much the same the world over, so nothing special about the Onan.

Also youtube may have a video on your carb... try starting with Steve's small Engine Saloon:
https://youtu.be/uAHdhuDpeKw
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:58 AM   #6
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I agree with pulling the plug(s) and having a look.

These smaller engines can foul the plug pretty quickly.

You need fuel, spark and for the engine to be in time for it to start. Not rocket science.

Crank it over with the plug connected to the wire but the side of the plug grounded to the case and see if you have spark.

A few drops of fuel in the plug hole and threading the plug back in and trying to start will tell you if it is starving for fuel if it tries to start for just a few seconds.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:19 PM   #7
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GAS?

I assume a Forester is a class C and this is a built in generator. Do you have at least a 1/4 tank of gas? They do not work with a 1/4 tank or less.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:46 PM   #8
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A little tip on generators that have engine speed "hunting".

Engines used on most air cooled generators are governed with a "vane" in the cooling air stream and an adjustable spring. If any moving part in this "governor" mechanism is sticky, the mechanism will overshoot it's desired position causing the engine to rev higher and then fall lower (hunt) due to the stickiness.

The usual cure is not to dump magic cleaners into the carb but merely clean the various pivot points on the outside, including the governor linkage/mechanism.

New carburetors are often attributed as the "Cure" but in reality it was just the clean external mechanism they brought with them.

In cases like this it pays to "think outside the box", literally.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:40 PM   #9
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Agree

I agree with TitanMike. Had the same issue with the Onan 4.0 in our old class c. A can of spray choke cleaner and some rags to the exposed linkages solved the problem for me.
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:18 AM   #10
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Now he has to get it running before addressing the hunting problem.
I think you should remove the main jet and inspect and clean. When debris gets into the bowl that is the first place it goes.
Another possibility for hunting is a partially clogged emulsion tube.
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:57 AM   #11
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The new ethanol blend gasoline are really bad about gumming up small passageways.

Cleaning the bowl and it’s parts is a necessity every few years if you do not run the carb dry.

Sometimes it takes several try’s to clean them up.

The local lawnmower place recommended to me to use premium in my two strokes stuff.

In my 60 years of owning gas engines, those pour it in the tank chemicals have never worked for squat.

Carb cleaner and a needle to open the jet. Really small. Sometimes the cleaner is not enough.
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:09 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by tomkatb View Post
The new ethanol blend gasoline are really bad about gumming up small passageways.

Cleaning the bowl and it’s parts is a necessity every few years if you do not run the carb dry.

Sometimes it takes several try’s to clean them up.

The local lawnmower place recommended to me to use premium in my two strokes stuff.

In my 60 years of owning gas engines, those pour it in the tank chemicals have never worked for squat.

Carb cleaner and a needle to open the jet. Really small. Sometimes the cleaner is not enough.
I have to disagree. I have two Honda generators that 14 years old and numerous other small engines around the house/farm that are never drained, and some sit for months with fuel in them. We use Stabil in the fuel and never have problems. I have never cleaned the carbs, no need to.
But that doesn't help the OP as he has cleaned his several times already. It will be interesting to see how he solves his problem, if he ever reports back.
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Old 02-22-2020, 12:10 PM   #13
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There are a lot of variables in gas for different people and suppliers. The more it sits the worse is the norm. If debris gets in the fuel the chemical treatment is useless. I use an ultrasonic cleaner in my shop and sometimes the emulsion tubes will not clean completely. The holes are so tiny and so many of them. We stock several different tubes and replace them during a rebuild often.
My son owns a motorcycle/small vehicle shop and they fill a 55 gallon barrel every month With fuel that is contaminated or water born. Often phase separation is a problem.
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Old 02-22-2020, 02:33 PM   #14
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The new ethanol blend gasoline are really bad about gumming up small passageways.
What is the “new” ethanol blend gasoline you speak of? Do you mean a higher ethanol content than 10%? Depending on where one lives, 10% ethanol blend is not new. Where I live in the midwest, it has been around 30+ years. Best I can remember, it began in the late 1970s, for sure by the ‘80s. While ethanol blends are probably to blame for some fuel system issues, it seems to be a bigger “problem”, real or imagined, for those areas that are newly exposed to it. Many people have dealt with it for the better part of their lifetimes, any their engines are running fine.
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:06 PM   #15
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The new ethanol blend gasoline
Quote:
What is the “new” ethanol blend gasoline you speak of?
perhaps the adjective NEW should not have been used, as yes, these 10% ethanol blends are used all over the country for many years...

But I do disagree that Stabil does work for keeping carbs and gas from gumming up during over-winter storage. I have added fuel shut-off valves to the fuel lines, but usually try to run the gas tank dry before end of the year storage, which eliminates most of the carb gumming problem.

However I believe the ONAN genny runs off the MH fuel tank, and other safeguards such as adding enough Stabil for the entire tank might be prohibitive.

Certainly would l like to hear back from the OP...
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:18 PM   #16
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perhaps the adjective NEW should not have been used, as yes, these 10% ethanol blends are used all over the country for many years...

But I do disagree that Stabil does work for keeping carbs and gas from gumming up during over-winter storage. I have added fuel shut-off valves to the fuel lines, but usually try to run the gas tank dry before end of the year storage, which eliminates most of the carb gumming problem.

However I believe the ONAN genny runs off the MH fuel tank, and other safeguards such as adding enough Stabil for the entire tank might be prohibitive.

Certainly would l like to hear back from the OP...
I agree on the practice of putting fuel shut off valves on carbureted engines. The same is easily done on the Onan motorhome generator. It’s the first mod I do on a newly acquired motorhome.

Onan (Cummins) seems to have two sets of recommendations for generator maintenance. One is to run it often, like monthly. The other is to drain the carb for storage. I run mine dry after every outing. It can easily be 6 months until the generator needs to be used again, since we rarely need it, so I just run it dry and drain it every time the camper is parked in the barn. No problems with start up the next time. Never a need to clean the carburetor.
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:19 PM   #17
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Stabil works for me, for almost two decades. I add it to all the fuel used for the small engines, so it goes through the entire system. Maybe you don't hold your mouth right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsdata View Post
perhaps the adjective NEW should not have been used, as yes, these 10% ethanol blends are used all over the country for many years...

But I do disagree that Stabil does work for keeping carbs and gas from gumming up during over-winter storage. I have added fuel shut-off valves to the fuel lines, but usually try to run the gas tank dry before end of the year storage, which eliminates most of the carb gumming problem.

However I believe the ONAN genny runs off the MH fuel tank, and other safeguards such as adding enough Stabil for the entire tank might be prohibitive.

Certainly would l like to hear back from the OP...
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:25 PM   #18
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I have to disagree. I have two Honda generators that 14 years old and numerous other small engines around the house/farm that are never drained, and some sit for months with fuel in them. We use Stabil in the fuel and never have problems. I have never cleaned the carbs, no need to.
But that doesn't help the OP as he has cleaned his several times already. It will be interesting to see how he solves his problem, if he ever reports back.
live in a moderate climate so fuel doesn't deteriorate like it can in hot climates. The only fuel additive I use, period, is Stabil and only for gas I keep in storage for use in standby generator. Every couple of years or so I just pour it in the tank of my pickup and buy fresh.

Sometimes people create their own, and much larger, problems by pouring the latest "fad" additive into gas tanks.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:53 AM   #19
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X2 on the Stabil. It works for me. Maybe it only works here in NM. Seafoam is also magic, but it won't clean out hard particles stuck in the jet. I drain my Honda gen carb, because I use it so seldom. Please report back on your solution. I use starter fluid in the carb to determine if it is a gas problem or an electrical problem. If shooting starter fluid through the carb (with the choke and throttle open) won't start it, it is an electrical problem. That could include fouled plugs.

AirCommuter, what is an emulsion tube?
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Old 02-23-2020, 10:26 AM   #20
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Stabil works for me, for almost two decades. I add it to all the fuel used for the small engines, so it goes through the entire system. Maybe you don't hold your mouth right?



X2 LOL. Stabil has worked for me on many types of small engines, boat motor etc.
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