Hard Start Kits for AC

[WolfWhistle]

These are induction motors. To understand how they work and how a momentary increase in capacitance helps the start up process isn't simple. Simply put, in an inductive circuit the phase of voltage (E) leads the phase of current (I) by 90 degrees. So the main purpose of a capacitor is to lessen that 90 degrees... bring it back towards center and instruct the motor in the direction it needs to run. An induction motor can run in either direction if acted on by an external force. A hard start, of start assist capacitor has circuitry that besides adding capacitance to what the compressor motor already has; engages then disengages it based on voltage or time. The added amount is there for only a moment. I also don't get why it is so important to start and run an 13.5 or 15KBTU a/c on a 2000w generator. Most only make 1600w constant (about 13 to 14 amps at 115 vac) My 13.5KBTU needs 14 amps to run and that's all it can run. I just wouldn't do it. They tell you need 3000w or 3500w for a reason. I have experience with the SPP6 on several units and it works. I have no reason to doubt the Microaire is much better at bring to speed more gracefully that the $10 SPP6. I didn't put a scope on it, like Bluepill. You cannot read that momentary spike with a voltmeter or Kill A Watt... its too fast. I will probably try the Microwaire next time.

[Jay2504]

I just have the standard kill a watt. When I hook it up to a load I usually don’t run it very long a few minutes at most. My ac uses 1200-1300 watts when running

[katkt]

Originally Posted by Smiletwice

I've been doing some research on hard start kits for AC. We have a 15000 BTU unit on our travel trailer and occasionally want to be able to run it on a 20 amp circuit or with a generator. Anyone else had experience with these? Supco SPP6 seems to be the most common but there are a lot of them on the market. Do they provide the same boost with lower amp service as they do when on generator? They're quite inexpensive, but wonder if they actually do any good. Appreciate any insight from the community.

After seeing some info about the Micro Air Easy Start 364, I bought one for our TT.
Airxcel 15k unit. (Coleman Mach 15 I’m pretty sure) . Unit is on my 26FKSS Vlite.

My results.
It will start and run the AC on a 20amp breaker, with about 150’ of 12 gauge extension cord.
Micro Air says the unit learns on the job. They say it takes about 6 starts, to get it where it needs to be. The vids etc, say to give it a few minutes between starts.
1st start try/ the AC tried to start, and stopped after a short time.
Gave it 5 minutes or so.
2nd try/Tripped the breaker at the house panel.
Gave it 5 minutes or so.
3rd try/started up and began cooling.
Gave it 5 minutes between tries.
The last three try’s it started and ran like a champ. Fan starts first, and the compressor eases into operation after a few moments.

The attempts to run the AC off of my EU2000i Honda genny, didn’t work out. The genny would kick out with the circuit overload light showing, and need to be shutoff to be reset. I tried it several times.
There may have been changes to later eu2000 units, that might let them run a 15k unit. This one is about a 2003 or 2004 vintage.
I tried it with eco mod off, and the genny already idled up.

I was really wanting to run it off of shore power here at the house, so although I had high hopes for the little Honda genny, I’m still happy with the results.

[katkt]

There is going to be an update to the above post. I made a mistake. I’ll rectify it, and post with the results. Micr Air’s Tech Department has been very helpful.

[katkt]

The update....

After exchanging emails with the good folks at Micro Air, I think I should reinforce the idea of looking at the "in-box" instructions. <insert face palm here>

I went to their website, and found a diagram that matched my AC. I put the "in-box" instructions back where I found them. In the box. Bad idea. BLUSHING emoticon
The very questions I asked them, were as clear as the nose on my face, on the "in-box" instructions.
In my own defense, it wasn't a costly mistake, only an embarrassing one. Easily fixed.

They were kind enough to point out the error in my ways, after I told them what I did.
No harm. No foul. A big dose of humility. The unit operates as advertised. My Airxcel/Coleman 15k, soft starts and runs on my 20 amp circuit in the garage, with their Easy Start 364.
It wouldn't do that before, primarily because of the long extension cord set up I'm using. Not quite Rube Goldberg quality where the neighbors raised their eyebrows, but a lot of extension cord even for 12 gauge. I hadn't intended to use the setup I have quite this way, but its a done deal. Before, I only used power in the building I have the trailer in, for battery chargers, and an air compressor for airing up tires.
Anyhoo, the high start up demand would trip the breaker in the garage. Now, it doesn't.

The eu2000i genny, is still a struggle. I dumped the old fuel today, and added new with a dose of Seafoam. I ran it to power a dehumidifier in the garage and a vacuum cleaner for about 5 minutes with the new fuel. The somewhat rough idle had cleared up, and it was running good.
I connected it to the TT, and had a big smile on my face, for about 3 minutes. The genny was running at it's max, but running smoothly. Then the compressor on the AC kicked out from low voltage. A fail safe thingie, that resets itself.
I suspect if I'm going to run the AC on a genny, there will be a newer 2200 or a 2000 companion in my future to parallel with the one I have, for the needed voltage. Although, if I do the 2200, I think it'll handle it just fine.

My main reason for doing the Easy Start, was to make the TT useable if we have company, w/o having to drag it out of the building it stays in, and connect it to a dedicated circuit on the side of the garage. The Easy Start makes that possible.




Be sure and use the "FORESTRIVER" discount when checking out, or one of those youtube vid discounts as seen on these pages. As far as I know, they are still active. I was in a hurry, and spent more money then necessary. ......sad face.....

Thanks again for the support from the people at Micro Air.

[MR.M]

so much ado about starting ac . 15,000 btu will run off a 20 amp as long as you don't have your h/w/h running on electric or your micro running . do it all the time . also the champion 3500 will run the 15,000 btu ac no issues . the 2000 w inverter will not at altitude have not tried at sea level

[katkt]

Mine wouldn't. Everything else in the trailer off, the voltage spike to start mine, would trip the 20 amp breaker at the power source. The AC on the trailer, being the only draw on that particular 20 amp circuit in my garage. I intend to check the amp load in a few days when a couple of things arrive.
I've never had any trouble when plugged into a 30 amp circuit, either at a CG, or the dedicated 30 here at home.

I'm about as close to sea level as you can get, without getting your feet wet. I can catch Redfish behind my house. Although I believe my eu2000i would start and run a 13.5k unit, it won't run my particular 15k unit longer then a few minutes. The Easy Start 364 does allow the genny to start the AC now, where before it would trip the overload on the genny.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by katkt

Mine wouldn't. Everything else in the trailer off, the voltage spike to start mine, would trip the 20 amp breaker at the power source. The AC on the trailer, being the only draw on that particular 20 amp circuit in my garage. I intend to check the amp load in a few days when a couple of things arrive.
I've never had any trouble when plugged into a 30 amp circuit, either at a CG, or the dedicated 30 here at home.

I'm about as close to sea level as you can get, without getting your feet wet. I can catch Redfish behind my house. Although I believe my eu2000i would start and run a 13.5k unit, it won't run my particular 15k unit longer then a few minutes. The Easy Start 364 does allow the genny to start the AC now, where before it would trip the overload on the genny.

.
I've never had issues running my15k off 20 amp . now let's talk the real important stuff REDFISH

[katkt]

I was able to check my amp draw this morning. Coleman Mach(Airxcel)15k unit, on a 2015 26WFKSS Vlite.

17.3 amps.

Nothing else on in the trailer, other then the CO detector and Microwave clock. The house batteries are fully charged, so there really shouldn't have been any draw to charge them.
Ambient temps in the upper 80's. Humidity, around 90%+. No sun directly on the trailer itself.
The AC was turned on and allowed to run at least 15 minutes to stabilize any current fluctuations as the AC got down to business. Fan speed on high.

I would think the amp draw might increase slightly, with the trailer sitting in full sun, and temps over 90.

The poor little eu2000i puts out about 16amps, with the wind at its back, a head start and it's tongue hanging out. ;^)

Ordered a new eu2200i Companion.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by katkt

I was able to check my amp draw this morning. Coleman Mach(Airxcel)15k unit, on a 2015 26WFKSS Vlite.

17.3 amps.

Nothing else on in the trailer, other then the CO detector and Microwave clock. The house batteries are fully charged, so there really shouldn't have been any draw to charge them.
Ambient temps in the upper 80's. Humidity, around 90%+. No sun directly on the trailer itself.
The AC was turned on and allowed to run at least 15 minutes to stabilize any current fluctuations as the AC got down to business. Fan speed on high.

I would think the amp draw might increase slightly, with the trailer sitting in full sun, and temps over 90.

The poor little eu2000i puts out about 16amps, with the wind at its back, a head start and it's tongue hanging out. ;^)

Ordered a new eu2200i Companion.

Please post your results with the new 2200 gen... I'm on the fence about which way I want to go...

[CHICKDOE]

i have to ask a question about hard start capacitors. they seem to cost $10 at retail. probably could buy them in bulk for much less, say $5. if they are so effective in starting the a/c and requiring less start up power, why don't the a/c manufacturers simply include them in the units they sell? seems like a minimal incremental cost for the benefits they claim to provide.

[katkt]

>SailorSam205000

I will.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by CHICKDOE

i have to ask a question about hard start capacitors. they seem to cost $10 at retail. probably could buy them in bulk for much less, say $5. if they are so effective in starting the a/c and requiring less start up power, why don't the a/c manufacturers simply include them in the units they sell? seems like a minimal incremental cost for the benefits they claim to provide.

Many units have the extra capacitor. I've seen posts where folks putting in an Easy Start had to remove them.

[katkt]

I didn’t have that stuff to remove on mine. After watching a couple of videos, I was sure I was missing something. :^D

The Easy Start 364, is not the same type of animal as the simple capacitor approach. It’s a soft start.

[katkt]

The rest of the story. This story, not necessarily the OP's

The final chapter.

My original goal was to be able to run my 15k AC, on a 20 amp circuit in my garage. It was a dedicated outlet. I use my garage as a shop, and tried to keep several outlets all by themselves, for my tools(Table saw etc.).

Originally, the 15k AC would trip the breaker in the Garage. After reading the post about the Micro Air Easy Start 364, I thought I'd found the silver bullet....

.....no doubt several of the more electrical types here on the Forum, were just shaking their heads, saying "silly boy". I am an optimist. I'm always in search of the proverbial pony.

The Easy Start 364, works as advertised. The AC was able to cycle on not only with the 20 amp circuit from the garage(with about 150' of 12 gauge cord), but my eu2000i was able to start the AC, as well.
Now then....
The AC, couldn't run on the Genny for more then a few moments, before the compressor would overheat from insufficient voltage, and shut itself off. However, the 2000 wouldn't even start the AC before the Easy Start 364. It'd trip its own circuit breaker, do to to high of demand. At least now, it handled the start.

No biggie, regarding the little Honda 2000. It was going to be a bonus anyway, if it had worked. I bit the bullet, and purchased a new eu2200i Companion and the required Parallel cord. Gotta love Amazon for how easy it makes it, to spend money.

No problem, I thought I was still good with the Shore Power.
But.....
Other then running the AC long enough to go through the learning process with the Easy Start 364, I really hadn't run it longer then needed at the time. I went out a few days later to tinker in the camper, and I noticed after about 4 minutes, the Compressor had stopped making cold air!!....Hmmmm?! My plan was always to only use the AC if needed, so I hadn't left it on. This was an interesting turn of events.

The Sparktricany types are all saying "We told you so"...my optimism was waning.

Here comes the rest of the story.

I purchased a dedicated set of meters for the trailer. A clamp on Ammeter, and a probe type only mate to it, sold as a set from Eztech. I had an old one, but I figured I'd get a dedicated set and leave it in the trailer.
The first thing I did, was test the amperage on the trailer when the AC was running. I was getting a reading of about 17.3 amps. Well! That explained why the little Honda 2000 wasn't getting the job done. It was listed at about 16 amps, under regular usage. No biggie, I had the 2200 on the way.

But why wouldn't the Shore Power run the 15k AC? 20 amps, right? Same as the 20 amp breaker in the trailer. Should work, right? So it had a few extra feet of extension cord. How bad could that be?

I went out in the evening, and with nothing other then a light on in the camper, and a few parasitic draws(the batteries were fully charged), and checked the voltage. The voltage was 120.8 volts. Heaven only knows what it would of been, if I'd of turned on the AC.

My wife suggested dragging it out of the building, and hooking it to the 30amp service we have by the garage, but I said not yet. I had the 2200 coming, and I thought I'd try it first. I was having some concerns I may have done in the run capacitor on the AC, and I was dreading the idea I may have damaged the Compressor, even though it hadn't been cyclced very many times to the point it shut itself down.

The Honda 2200 Companion arrived earlier this week, and the Parallel kit showed up yesterday.
I went out this morning, added oil to the new Genny, and changed the oil in the 2000. I filled the 2200 with fuel, and connected the Parallel kit. I started both, let them idle for about 5 minutes, and then turned on the AC. The AC started as it does now with the Easy Start 364...Fan on, and about 7 to 10 seconds later, you can hear the compressor ease into operation. It cooled as it normally does, and this time the compressor didn't shut itself off.

Big sigh of relief!!!!! Stupid can hurt.

Just to see how well it worked with the gennys hooked together, I left both gennys on eco mode. You could hear them idle up a little bit, when the AC cycled on, but they weren't running anywhere near the max output. I doubt I'd get more then 6 hours run time in tandem like that, but that's better then the 3.5 hours when they are running closer to the max. I see an extended run kit for both Hondas in the future. I already have it in my Amazon wait and see stuff.

So. Lesson learned. My 15k unit would not operate on the 20 amp circuit. The voltage drop was just to much, with the 150 foot of cord. I'm not sure if the 20 amp circuit would run the AC on a 25 foot 12 gauge extension cord and, I'm not really motivated to try.

If you can park the camper next to your garage, and you want to run your 15k AC, spend the money to have it done, or do it yourself, but install a 30amp dedicated circuit for the trailer. It's the best plan.
I didn't try running the 15k AC off of just the new eu2200i companion. I think it would do it, but it'd have to run at a much higher idle. With the higher idle, comes more noise. If anyone would like me to try it, I can. I still think the two gennys running together at a lower idle, is quieter then a single would be, when the single is running closer to its max output.

[Toyman]

If you try running your AC on the Honda EU2000, be aware that the continuous rating is 1600W, not the 1800W earlier stated. This gives you 13.3A @120V. My 13.5 Dometic AC indicates 12.4A running. That may be...brand new on a cool day running downhill with a tail wind, I wouldn’t expect less than 13A. Not a lot of overhead there. Soft start does nothing for the running amp draw.

[cavie]

the devil in all this was the 150' externtion cord and the voltage drop. You should not have a problem with the 25' cord. Try this. measure the voltage under load. This will give you the voltage drop. Hook up the 150 cord. Measure the voltage somewhere in the camper. Now start the AC. Measure the voltage in the camper. the result in the 2 measurements will be the voltage drop.

[katkt]

Originally Posted by cavie

the devil in all this was the 150' externtion cord and the voltage drop. You should not have a problem with the 25' cord. Try this. measure the voltage under load. This will give you the voltage drop. Hook up the 150 cord. Measure the voltage somewhere in the camper. Now start the AC. Measure the voltage in the camper. the result in the 2 measurements will be the voltage drop.

Yes, ................and the 15k Airxcel/Coleman Mach AC. The tech department at Micro Air mentioned the 15k Coleman’s tend to require more power to run, then some of the others.

Voltage in the Trailer W/O the AC on(or anything else besides a light), running off of the 150’ cord and 20 amp circuit, was at 120.8. I suppose I could try it just to test, but I really didn’t want to torture the AC compressor more then needed. It’d be more of an academic exercise at this point.
Voltage in the Trailer running the AC, with the two gennys, was 121+. I don’t think I mentioned that above. This was with the gennys operating at less then their potential., although not idling in eco mode.

I looked at a chart somewhere on the web, that gave estimated voltage drop when given the length and size of conductor. From memory, it was in the neighborhood of 9 volts(?)for my situation. Regardless of whether some units can still operate down around 110 volts(if the calc was correct), mine wouldn’t. Cord ends were getting very warm to the touch, although not to the point of self destructing.

[SailorSam20500]

Katkt,
I would appreciate your running a test with just the new 2200i. I'm on the fence about how to proceed. I don't see myself needing to run a gen for many hours into the night. Just long enough after a days travel to cool down the my trailer - we tend to do most of our travel in the off season and nights are more than cool enough.
So I might get a single 2200i or a pair of lower cost 2000's.
TIA
Al

[katkt]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

Katkt,

I would appreciate your running a test with just the new 2200i. I'm on the fence about how to proceed. I don't see myself needing to run a gen for many hours into the night. Just long enough after a days travel to cool down the my trailer - we tend to do most of our travel in the off season and nights are more than cool enough.

So I might get a single 2200i or a pair of lower cost 2000's.

TIA

Al

We’ll do. Give me a day or so. We got the 2200 companion for $1100 and free shipping via Amazon.