I made a BIG mistake, need help/eletrical

[Chuckwag]

Good evening folks, Chuckwag here. We've owned and loved our 2013 Flagstaff/VLite 21WRS for a few years now, and have used it with great success less than a dozen times. Each trip we learned something new about the 21WRS, and generally have had zero problems with anything. We love it!

Here's where I goofed up, and I'm afraid in a big way! A few weeks ago I asked my electrician friend to run a 220-volt/30-amp plug from our home close to the camper, so I wouldn't have to run a long shore power cord across my carport.

Those of you who understand electronics better than I do should already understand my problem. When my electrician friend and I hooked up the power, he heard something that made him immediately unplug the camper!

That's when he discovered my mistake, and realized the camper is 120-volt/30-amp, rather than 220-volt!! His only mistake was assuming I knew ANYTHING about TT electronics.

So far, we've confirmed that several things no longer work from the brief high voltage connection. Among them are the microwave, (it's totally fried), refrigerator, the slide, the awning, etc. Surprisingly, the 12-volt lighting and the AC are both still operational.

So here's my first question. Where do we start the process of tracing and diagnosis of what else has been fried? If anyone has access (or a link?) to the schematics or wiring diagrams for the 21WRS, or Flagstaff/Forest River TT's in general, that will help my electrician track this down. He has made me promise to stay on the sidelines!

Other ideas and guidance is very much appreciated, and I'll even accept some (gentle) ribbing about my mistake!

Chuckwag

[Daveh5525]

First thing I would do is contact someone's insurance company and file a claim. Either the contractors as he was hired and takes care custody and control over his work in progress, or the home owners for a power
Surge. This is from a retired electrical contractor.

[Hclarkx]

I would start by using your nose to detect any oders that result when insulation is burned by an electrical arc. This includes switches and outlets and such. Then I would look at the circuit breaker panel and identify anything that might have been "on" when the surge hit (evidentially the A/C was off). Examine those devices for any oder. Take any devices you can into the garage and plug them in there to see if they still work.

I would also not plug into the 30 amp outlet (I presume it's been re-wired for 120V) until all is sorted out. I would instead use an adapter to plug into a 15 or 20 amp outlet. This will reduce the current delivered and duration of current and risk of fire should you switch on a short-circuited device. Open all circuit breakers in the RV 120 volt panel before plugging the RV into 120 volts. Then, if no immediate problems are evident. Close the circuit breakers one at a time and be ready to open them manually if they don't open on their own should a shorted device be energized.

Some things like your converter will have an internal fuse that may have blown. Such devices may be repairable.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Well, you are in a pickle. There are no schematics that I know of for your rig... They just don't make schematics for these rvs. They tend to wire them, then put up the walls.

I don't know if insurance will cover this, but it's going to be expensive. The damage may exceed the cost of your rig. You're not the first homeowner to make this mistake. Usually it's the electrician not understanding that it's 120v, but you did tell him 240v. You're lucky he reacted so quickly and unplugged it.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Chuckwag

Good evening folks, Chuckwag here. We've owned and loved our 2013 Flagstaff/VLite 21WRS for a few years now, and have used it with great success less than a dozen times. Each trip we learned something new about the 21WRS, and generally have had zero problems with anything. We love it!



Here's where I goofed up, and I'm afraid in a big way! A few weeks ago I asked my electrician friend to run a 220-volt/30-amp plug from our home close to the camper, so I wouldn't have to run a long shore power cord across my carport.



Those of you who understand electronics better than I do should already understand my problem. When my electrician friend and I hooked up the power, he heard something that made him immediately unplug the camper!



That's when he discovered my mistake, and realized the camper is 120-volt/30-amp, rather than 220-volt!! His only mistake was assuming I knew ANYTHING about TT electronics.



So far, we've confirmed that several things no longer work from the brief high voltage connection. Among them are the microwave, (it's totally fried), refrigerator, the slide, the awning, etc. Surprisingly, the 12-volt lighting and the AC are both still operational.



So here's my first question. Where do we start the process of tracing and diagnosis of what else has been fried? If anyone has access (or a link?) to the schematics or wiring diagrams for the 21WRS, or Flagstaff/Forest River TT's in general, that will help my electrician track this down. He has made me promise to stay on the sidelines!



Other ideas and guidance is very much appreciated, and I'll even accept some (gentle) ribbing about my mistake!



Chuckwag

First, there is no such thing as a model-specific wiring diagram.
You can find generic RV wiring diagrams though.
Also, suggest that you Google "the 12 Volt Side of Life". It should be required for all RV owners. It's a good primer on the two different RV electrical systems.
This is not that unusual but it usually the fault of electricians who aren't familiar with RV electrical systems.



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[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by Daveh5525

First thing I would do is contact someone's insurance company and file a claim. Either the contractors as he was hired and takes care custody and control over his work in progress, or the home owners for a power
Surge. This is from a retired electrical contractor.

Let's get this straight. The homeowner instructs the electrician to install a 220 volt 30 amp outlet which the electrician does at the homeowner's request. Then the insurance company is supposed to pay because the homeowner plugged their trailer into the outlet that they instructed the electrician to install? if I was the insurance adjuster the very first word on my report would be FRAUD.

[NavyLCDR]

I would test and replace (if needed) the converter first and see how much of the 12 volt side of the trailer that fixes.

[rsdata]

replace and upgrade the converter box and the microwave which is probably the only two things that got hurt in that cluster F---

If the electrician knew anything about a trailer he should have seen the problem before doing the wiring... all 3 prong trailers are 110 VAC, but 4 plug trailers are 220 VAC

If you told him what to do, then you screwed up...

I have no idea why you would need a wiring diagram... the over-voltage most likely stopped at the converter and the microwave, which is the only 110VAC thing plugged in and turned on as soon as you plug the trailer into an outlet...

[wmtire]

Unfortunately, this happens all too frequently and why we have this thread as a sticky at the very top of the FAQ section for the last 10 years:

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...let-27223.html

OK, Now working forward. The converter almost always is fried when connected to 240 volts like you did. That's usually the smoke you smell and capacitors that pop. Plan to have it replaced. Since you have stated you do not know much about RV electric, you probably need a RV tech to do this. They will be very familiar on how to do such. Here is a good read to familiarize yourself with the converter that we also keep in the FAQ subsection

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...nt-152813.html

The other 120 volt AC items that are sometimes damaged and may can be repaired and/or replaced are the television, microwave, refrigerator control boards if the type that use AC and DC, electric fireplaces, water heater electric heating elements if turned ON, and anything you may have had had plugged into the RV's electric outlets.

The air conditioners in the RV are usually saved due to the fact that they are controlled via a 12 volt DC thermostat and do not get turned on....unless you tried this too while still connected to 240 volts.


If you will read the link above about the converter, you may understand now what is operated off of 120 volt AC vs 12 volt DC in your RV. The 12 volt DC only items should be OK and work off of the battery (since the converter is fried). However the battery will run down since the converter cannot recharge it. You may need to go ahead and connect your battery to a vehicle type battery recharger to keep it going and allow you to use the 12 volt DC items until the converter is replaced.

[Daveh5525]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Let's get this straight. The homeowner instructs the electrician to install a 220 volt 30 amp outlet which the electrician does at the homeowner's request. Then the insurance company is supposed to pay because the homeowner plugged their trailer into the outlet that they instructed the electrician to install? if I was the insurance adjuster the very first word on my report would be FRAUD.

Yes its called liability. The electrician did not verify what the actcal voltage requirements were. I bet its on a schematic or nameplate in the RV. The cord end should be a dead giveaway to an electrician as the NEMA number would indicate its a 120V device.. The electrician plugged it in, so he can't say he could not verify. It's all on him, as he was paid to do a professional job, he has care custody and control over his work, that's how the insurance company will look at it. Yes, it s*cks for him,, but thats how it works. You don't want an argument but involving insurance right away will avoid other stress, like law suits between parties then find out the insurance would have covered it.

[wmtire]

OK members, this "liability" conversation is not going to help the new member and is distracting from getting a solution. The OP honestly admitted it was "his" mistake and he had an electrician "friend" do the work for him...probably free of charge. He has made no mention of claiming anything on any insurance and that was added by others. It's a learning experience for both of them. Let's just try to help them get it fixed.

Originally Posted by Chuckwag

Here's where I goofed up, and I'm afraid in a big way! A few weeks ago I asked my electrician friend to run a 220-volt/30-amp plug from our home close to the camper, so I wouldn't have to run a long shore power cord across my carport.

Other ideas and guidance is very much appreciated, and I'll even accept some (gentle) ribbing about my mistake!

Chuckwag

To the OP, we will get you thru this and I have been involved in many threads where this has happened. It's not going to be too bad. The converter is only a couple hundred and you may can use this as an opportunity to upgrade your converter to a better one than you originally had. That's the very first step you need to take. Then we can see if other things can be repaired or need replaced. Later today, I will gather up many previous thread links on this same matter that you can read and get a good idea on things. From what I could tell by your first post, you have a good sense of humor about the situation, and that is a good positive attitude to have.

[wmtire]

The converter is many times located near the electrical distribution panel inside your RV. Can you perhaps take a pic of your distribution panel (where the circuit breakers are) with the cover open. If there are air louvers/vents on this cover, the converter is usually behind it.

[Flybob]

Look for this.

[Chuckwag]

Thanks guys, for everyone’s input. As a retired attorney, I am respectfully aware of all issues related to liability, but prefer to preserve friendships than worry about who screwed up. Of course my friend is devastated, and is already beating himself up for missing this important detail. But here’s the question: will I be better off getting my pound of flesh, or keeping a friend I’ve had for 40-plus years? That’s right: keep the friend!

Keep those solution-focused comments and links coming, and many many thanks!

[Chuckwag]

entire, you are right on all fronts! Good humor is far more desirable than anger and vengeance. Been there and done that, and while it may get people what they want, it ain’t too fun if you end up alone and bitter. Poo happens. I find the best solution is to solve the problem, and move forward.

[mwdilday]

Originally Posted by Hclarkx

I would start by using your nose to detect any oders that result when insulation is burned by an electrical arc. This includes switches and outlets and such. Then I would look at the circuit breaker panel and identify anything that might have been "on" when the surge hit (evidentially the A/C was off). Examine those devices for any oder. Take any devices you can into the garage and plug them in there to see if they still work.

I would also not plug into the 30 amp outlet (I presume it's been re-wired for 120V) until all is sorted out. I would instead use an adapter to plug into a 15 or 20 amp outlet. This will reduce the current delivered and duration of current and risk of fire should you switch on a short-circuited device. Open all circuit breakers in the RV 120 volt panel before plugging the RV into 120 volts. Then, if no immediate problems are evident. Close the circuit breakers one at a time and be ready to open them manually if they don't open on their own should a shorted device be energized.

Some things like your converter will have an internal fuse that may have blown. Such devices may be repairable.

What he said is good advice right there.

[mwdilday]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Let's get this straight. The homeowner instructs the electrician to install a 220 volt 30 amp outlet which the electrician does at the homeowner's request. Then the insurance company is supposed to pay because the homeowner plugged their trailer into the outlet that they instructed the electrician to install? if I was the insurance adjuster the very first word on my report would be FRAUD.

The outlet will determine the voltage. The blade configuration is different for 125 volt vs 220 volt to avoid confusion and errors like this from happening. If the electrician wired a NEMA TT-30R outlet for 220 volts he should loose his license. I suspect the OP hired his "electrician" friend who might not be a certified electrician but someone with just enough knowledge to screw things up.

[mwdilday]

Originally Posted by Chuckwag

Thanks guys, for everyone’s input. As a retired attorney, I am respectfully aware of all issues related to liability, but prefer to preserve friendships than worry about who screwed up. Of course my friend is devastated, and is already beating himself up for missing this important detail. But here’s the question: will I be better off getting my pound of flesh, or keeping a friend I’ve had for 40-plus years? That’s right: keep the friend!

Keep those solution-focused comments and links coming, and many many thanks!

You will always be better off keeping a friend. Sorry you had the issue I know it is costly and a real pain. Hope you get it resolved soon. There are a lot of great ideas that the guys have given you here. There are some really knowledgable guys on this forum and it is a great place to get info.

[Jfkmk]

Originally Posted by Chuckwag

Thanks guys, for everyone’s input. As a retired attorney, I am respectfully aware of all issues related to liability, but prefer to preserve friendships than worry about who screwed up. Of course my friend is devastated, and is already beating himself up for missing this important detail. But here’s the question: will I be better off getting my pound of flesh, or keeping a friend I’ve had for 40-plus years? That’s right: keep the friend!

Keep those solution-focused comments and links coming, and many many thanks!

Wise decision!

[Flybob]

Moderators note:


Please keep responses on topic of identifying and replacing potentially damaged equipment. The OP has already made his position very clear on his thoughts on liability.