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01-19-2017, 06:41 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GL1800Rider
I am not sure who is even offering a residential fridge in a class C unless you get into a super C like Dynamax. With a C your weight carrying capacity is already limited and adding the extra batteries required to use an inverter will reduce that even further.
We have the Dometic 12 cu ft 4 door absorption fridge w/ice maker in ours and love it. Only thing you must be careful of is to be sure it is level when you are set up and camping or you can cause permanent damage.
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I don't quite follow your comment.
First off, operating an absorbtion fridge level is best, but newer models will operate out of plumb a bit without issue. If the unit is way out of kilter, it will go into shutdown by itself.
There is no way to 'damage' an absorbition fridge by operating it out of level. not going to happen (other that it shuts itself down). Nothing inside to damage.
Furthermore, adding auxilary cooling fans (muffin computer fans) in the upper cavity will really enhance the cooling capability. Mine came with one fan, I added a second. Very low current draw, much better cooling.
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01-19-2017, 08:21 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip
There is no way to 'damage' an absorbition fridge by operating it out of level. not going to happen (other that it shuts itself down). Nothing inside to damage.
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Wow, is that bad information!
Off level operation causes blockage in the cooling unit when the sodium chromate particles turn to crystal and block sections of internal piping in the boiler causing permanent damage.
__________________
2007 Surveyor SV230 - 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 220 AH Battery Bank (Two-GC2) - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre with Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
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01-19-2017, 09:01 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boondocking
Wow, is that bad information!
Off level operation causes blockage in the cooling unit when the sodium chromate particles turn to crystal and block sections of internal piping in the boiler causing permanent damage.
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Care to substantiate that with an informational link? Until then, I assume that is an opinion and nothing more.
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01-19-2017, 09:39 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boondocking
Off level operation causes blockage in the cooling unit when the sodium chromate particles turn to crystal and block sections of internal piping in the boiler causing permanent damage.
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Yes, this can happen, it is widely substantiated on other forums, by folks that rebuild them, and is likely the reason ours lost performance when I left ours on while driving/stopping to eat in the Smoky Mts... Afterwards our 8 cu. ft. RV fridge would not maintain 40. It was going to cost $450 for ME to install a rebuilt cooling unit & I wanted more cu. ft. so I replaced it with a $300 11.8 cu. ft. Whirlpool residential that fits in the same space powered by a $100 2000W inverter & 2nd 12V battery for simplicity...
I LOVE the larger / faster to cool residential that fits in the same space... We can actually start loading food as soon as we turn it on because it cools that fast... We have a TT so the TV alternator powers the inverter when we are on the road & a couple batteries/generator when we are off the grid (which is not that often...) I like that I don't have to worry about turning the propane off when we go through tunnels or are on Ferries.
The best thing is the kids can open & close the fridge all day on a hot day & I have no worries. A pair of thermometers are always pegged on 38. Regret not doing this from day one...
__________________
2011 RAM 2500 ST Crew Cab 5.7 Hemi
2011 Primetime 3150BHD Touring Edition
Days camped in 2018- 25
2017- 31; 2016- 36; 2015- 37; 2014- 31
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01-19-2017, 09:41 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,916
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Residential Fridge vs Absorption Fridge
I called BS a while back when I read this....then I looked it up.
__________________
2017 Puma 297RLSS
2005 Ram 2500 4X4 diesel SMOKER!!
I love puns, irony and tasteless jokes...
born in Texas.... live in Arkansas
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01-19-2017, 09:41 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 361
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Residential Fridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdude
We are currently shopping for a new Class C and were curious which fridge would be better? We currently have a small fridge in our TT that runs on electric or propane, works great if we dry camp or just pull over for the night on propane. Wife likes the size of the residential fridges and I like the convenience of using propane or electric with the auto setting. Just curious if the residential is worth using. Some forum post say it is harder to find a tech to work on the residential ones.....Thoughts and thanks in advance.
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I have had absorption refrigerators in RVs since our first Prowler in 1972. I can tell you the residential in our new Allegro is the cat's meow! Huge, keeps everything cold/frozen. I have 4 deep cell batteries, it's good for several days. If I dry camped a lot, I would have the absorption, but for my money its on the residential. IMO
Happy Trails, Forrest
__________________
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2011 Georgetown 378TS
2011 Ford Escape V-6 4X4
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01-19-2017, 09:45 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,916
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Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums
__________________
2017 Puma 297RLSS
2005 Ram 2500 4X4 diesel SMOKER!!
I love puns, irony and tasteless jokes...
born in Texas.... live in Arkansas
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01-19-2017, 09:49 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip
Care to substantiate that with an informational link? Until then, I assume that is an opinion and nothing more.
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Quote directly from Dometic service manual.
IMPORTANCE OF LEVELING A REFRIGERATOR
In an absorption refrigerator system, ammonia is liquefied
in the finned condenser coil at the top rear of the refrigerator.
The liquid ammonia then flows into the evaporator
(inside the freezer section) and is exposed to a circulating
flow of hydrogen gas, which causes the ammonia to
evaporate, creating a cold condition in the freezer. When
starting this refrigerator for the very first time, the cooling
cycle may require up to four hours of running time before
the cooling unit is fully operational. The tubing in the
evaporator section is specifically sloped to provide a continuous
movement of liquid ammonia, flowing downward
by gravity through this section. If the refrigerator is operated
when it is not level and the vehicle is not moving, liquid
ammonia will accumulate in sections of the evaporator
tubing. This will slow the circulation of hydrogen and ammonia
gas, or in severe cases, completely block it, resulting
in a loss of cooling. Any time the vehicle is parked for
several hours with the refrigerator operating, the vehicle
should be leveled to prevent this loss of cooling. The vehicle
needs to be leveled only so it is comfortable to live in
(no noticeable sloping of floor or walls). When the vehicle
is moving, the leveling is not critical, as the rolling and
pitching movement of the vehicle will pass to either side
of level, keeping the liquid ammonia from accumulating in
the evaporator tubing.
__________________
2007 Surveyor SV230 - 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 220 AH Battery Bank (Two-GC2) - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre with Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
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01-19-2017, 10:06 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 5,037
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From the Dometic 7-series install and operating instructions that I got with my 2016 trailer:
Leveling the refrigerator
Leveling is one of the requirements for proper operation with absorption refrigerators. To ensure proper leveling the vehicle needs to be leveled so it is comfortable to live in (no noticeable sloping of floor or walls).
Any time the vehicle is parked for several hours with the refrigerator operating, the vehicle should be leveled to prevent this loss of cooling.
CAUTION
Do not park your Rv on a slope for a longer period of time. Absorption refrigerators use a gravity-flow system.
Being on an angle of more than a couple of degrees for extended periods of time stops the refrigeration and might cause damage to the cooling unit
If the refrigerator is operated when it is not level and the vehicle is not moving, liquid ammonia will accumulate in sections of the evaporator tubing. This will slow the circulation of hydrogen and ammonia gas, or in severe cases, completely block it, resulting in a loss of cooling.
When the vehicle is moving, the leveling is not critical, as the rolling and pitching movement of the vehicle will pass to either side of level, keeping the liquid ammonia from accumulating in the evaporator tubing.
So, a little out of level is fine 1-2 degrees or so. More than that for extended periods, you are asking for problems. If I have it right, 2 degrees is about a half inch per foot, so for a standard width trailer, one side can be around 4 inches higher than the other. Length measurement is up to you...
__________________
Al
I am starting to think, that I will never be old enough--------to know better.
Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles. Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky, Russian Novelist
S.E. Mich. Flagstaff 26FKWS / 2022 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost SCrew Propride
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01-19-2017, 10:17 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boondocking
Quote directly from Dometic service manual.
IMPORTANCE OF LEVELING A REFRIGERATOR
In an absorption refrigerator system, ammonia is liquefied
in the finned condenser coil at the top rear of the refrigerator.
The liquid ammonia then flows into the evaporator
(inside the freezer section) and is exposed to a circulating
flow of hydrogen gas, which causes the ammonia to
evaporate, creating a cold condition in the freezer. When
starting this refrigerator for the very first time, the cooling
cycle may require up to four hours of running time before
the cooling unit is fully operational. The tubing in the
evaporator section is specifically sloped to provide a continuous
movement of liquid ammonia, flowing downward
by gravity through this section. If the refrigerator is operated
when it is not level and the vehicle is not moving, liquid
ammonia will accumulate in sections of the evaporator
tubing. This will slow the circulation of hydrogen and ammonia
gas, or in severe cases, completely block it, resulting
in a loss of cooling. Any time the vehicle is parked for
several hours with the refrigerator operating, the vehicle
should be leveled to prevent this loss of cooling. The vehicle
needs to be leveled only so it is comfortable to live in
(no noticeable sloping of floor or walls). When the vehicle
is moving, the leveling is not critical, as the rolling and
pitching movement of the vehicle will pass to either side
of level, keeping the liquid ammonia from accumulating in
the evaporator tubing.
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Lets toss in this.....
http://www.sundancecustomrv.com/Ammo...rigerators.pdf
They don't have to be level for one thing, somewhat but not bubble level and the 'boiler is one tube, not multiple tubes
I've had RV's since the 90's, all with absorbtion refrigerators (Dometic and Norclod) and I've never had issue one with out of level operation, but then your situation may be different. Admittedly, they won't operate on their side but neither will a conventional refrigerator, the pump will seize from lack of oil.
I bolded your missive. read it.
I have a Dometic right now and I run off road and never have any issue. Of course I run auxillary fans on the condenser too.
Finally, electronically controlled absorbtion units have the capability of auto shutdown if the unit senses an overheat situation from lack of refrigerant flow. It's calledl a fault and the unit will shut down. Miracle of electronic control. Both my current Dometic and my previous Norcold had that.
Carry on, I'm done commenting.
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01-20-2017, 02:00 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,980
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You wanted an informational link instead of just an opinion so I gave you a quote directly from the Dometic service manual.
I'm glad to hear that you are finished commenting, no need for more bad information.
__________________
2007 Surveyor SV230 - 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 220 AH Battery Bank (Two-GC2) - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre with Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
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01-20-2017, 04:44 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip
Lets toss in this.....
They don't have to be level for one thing, somewhat but not bubble level
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Correct, no need for perfection. What is recommended is within 3 degree of plumb right and left when standing in front of the fridge looking at it, and within 6 degrees of plumb front to back. Take a 4' level and draw a line 3 degrees out of plumb on the wall, its a lot. Since most fridges are on a sidewall having your trailer 3 degrees out front to rear would have you getting some stares at the campground. Those are what is recommended by the manufacturers and are usually the points the automatic control will set off a fault if equipped. Like all things engineered those are conservative, its not an absolute. It takes days, not minutes or hours for a cooling unit to fail due to an out of plumb/level condition unless you have it grossly out of plumb which is why it can be operated while traveling. Most failures of cooling units are due to contamination during the manufacturing process causing a blockage. In the picture below if you get any of the tubes marked as "absorber" out of level to the point they are opposite as shown in relation to the slope back to the vessel, thats where the potential exists for an issue. Its easy to blame it on the user when warranties are in the mix.
As far as residential fridges in an RV, I have never had one. The question I would ask is if any RV residential fridge manufacturer is engineering them to account for the road shock and movement incurred in an RV? I have had my fair share of issues with residential fridges in a residence, and it seems like they became more common in the last 15 years or so. That being said the current generation of absorption fridges scream "cheap" at you also just looking at the cooling units. So do most things.
IMO the manufacturers are using residential because they are low cost, not because they are doing you a favor. They throw in the cheapest inverter that can be found and a cheap battery or two to just get it going. If it was about doing something better they would use a high quality inverter, 4 or 6-6 volt batteries etc.
One power source, no special construction needed to get it to height and enclose it, no gas line, no roof or wall vents and a lower cost for the unit itself. All of that adds up to less initial cost to build and a huge time savings on the line. One thing they are good at is marketing and spinning it so it looks like you're getting something you're not. Getting a residential fridge as an option should be a credit to the buyer, not an add, but it go's to the bottom line. Imagine that.
If I knew I was going to be at campgrounds that always had electric service, would be able to get to it every time on battery capacity, or had an on board generator, I guess residential is a no brainer for some. A lot too would depend on the specific type of RV. A MH or something with a built in generator is a different scenario than a TT or 5er without. Another thought, when one of those craps out....how do you get it changed? I have yet to see a door other than on a park model with a slider, that a residential double door fridge is fitting through.
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01-20-2017, 06:29 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 918
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"A MH or something with a built in generator is a different scenario than a TT or 5er without. Another thought, when one of those craps out....how do you get it changed?"
Big fridges are changed by pulling the windshield out.
Sunfrost is the most efficient fridge thick insulation and very smart 12v computer controlled operation. Not cheap and really BIG! .
Refrigerators & Freezers - SunFrost.com
www.sunfrost.com/efficient_ refrigerator_models.html
Even with a noisemaker a battery bank is hard to live with as the last 10-15% of charge goes in very slowly . Solar is a great help, if you dont mind parking in the sun.
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01-20-2017, 07:56 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFred
"A MH or something with a built in generator is a different scenario than a TT or 5er without. Another thought, when one of those craps out....how do you get it changed?"
Big fridges are changed by pulling the windshield out.
Sunfrost is the most efficient fridge thick insulation and very smart 12v computer controlled operation. Not cheap and really BIG! .
Refrigerators & Freezers - SunFrost.com
www.sunfrost.com/efficient_ refrigerator_models.html
Even with a noisemaker a battery bank is hard to live with as the last 10-15% of charge goes in very slowly . Solar is a great help, if you dont mind parking in the sun.
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I knew the windshield route....not sure if I would want to go down it. Plenty of posts about loose, cracked, or leaking windshields around. What about a TT or 5er? I have seen a few at shows and such that evidently they built the rig around it. I did not take a tape measure, and possibly it would barely fit through a window opening or a door opening if you pulled them out. That's something I would be checking out if I was interested in it.
I have not seen that brand in any that I have looked at.....who is using those in an RV? Prevost?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Forest River Forums mobile app
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01-20-2017, 08:08 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Whereever our Berkshire is Parked!
Posts: 7,082
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I did a quick measurement and it looks like you *could* remove our residential refer by removing the front door then removing the 2 doors on the refer and removing the freezer drawer (we have a French door Frigidaire).
OTOH, most residential refers are component-based, so I would imagine you would have to have a pretty catastrophic failure to require the removal of the whole unit.
__________________
Bob & Anne-Marie [BamaBob & 6 Actual]
| 2017 Berkshire XLT 43A with Ultrasteer Tag | Blue Ox Avail + KarGard II |
| SMI AF-1 Air Brake | 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland TOAD | Pedego Bikes |
Nights Camped: 2013 - 24 2014 - 42 2015 - 56 Jul 2016 - Fulltime
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01-20-2017, 09:32 AM
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#36
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Citrus County, Fl.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hernando, Fl
Posts: 2,368
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Wow, this has turned in to a debate. Here is my experience with an out of level fridge....I always verify with a bubble level but we arrived at a campground right after our grand daughter was born and relied on the auto level.
After the second day I noticed the fridge was in the 40's. Level was not in range. Set levelers manually and within a few hours the fridge was back down to 37. Moral of the story, check your level. This is a 12 cu ft Dometic
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2016 Forester 3011DS
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99 Terry 31G
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01-20-2017, 11:23 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBob
I did a quick measurement and it looks like you *could* remove our residential refer by removing the front door then removing the 2 doors on the refer and removing the freezer drawer (we have a French door Frigidaire).
OTOH, most residential refers are component-based, so I would imagine you would have to have a pretty catastrophic failure to require the removal of the whole unit.
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That's a good thing I think? It would be the first thing I would look at if considering a residential.
As far as replacing components I see what you're saying but I wouldn't count on it. Just went through that with a 6 yr old Samsung TV.....I was proud of myself replacing all the caps on the power board but it also needed a specific green LED. Impossible to obtain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Forest River Forums mobile app
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01-20-2017, 03:56 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Whereever our Berkshire is Parked!
Posts: 7,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp
That's a good thing I think? It would be the first thing I would look at if considering a residential.
As far as replacing components I see what you're saying but I wouldn't count on it. Just went through that with a 6 yr old Samsung TV.....I was proud of myself replacing all the caps on the power board but it also needed a specific green LED. Impossible to obtain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Forest River Forums mobile app
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I hear ya! After about year 2-3 it's a wash. I was thinking about <1 year warranty work.
When we had our S&B our washer died. It was a high end Whirlpool and we had a homeowner's warranty. The tech that fixed our washer was *forced* by the home warranty folks to fix components. He replaced the upper and lower computer control boards and the main logic controller. Total cost to the home warranty company? $2,200 with labor.
Cost to replace? $1,995.00
__________________
Bob & Anne-Marie [BamaBob & 6 Actual]
| 2017 Berkshire XLT 43A with Ultrasteer Tag | Blue Ox Avail + KarGard II |
| SMI AF-1 Air Brake | 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland TOAD | Pedego Bikes |
Nights Camped: 2013 - 24 2014 - 42 2015 - 56 Jul 2016 - Fulltime
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01-21-2017, 06:25 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 918
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"I have not seen that brand (Sunfrost) in any that I have looked at.....who is using those in an RV? Prevost?
\
Most are used in off grid homes , a few in larger yachts that value silence.
Dometic makes the Survelle line of propane reefers for the Amish where the space for good insulation in the box is available.
Efficiency is always expensive , in bucks and space,
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03-09-2017, 02:16 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timfromma
Clarification:
If the fridge is turned off, no damage will occur if the RV is off level provided that you level it before turning it on again.
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This may be a dumb question, but if we have the RV parked in our driveway while packing up for a trip, is it ok to run the refrigerator on electric if it isn't level?
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