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Old 02-06-2023, 10:41 PM   #1
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Tankless Water Heater Question

Hello
Thanking about tankless. However, I've been told that the tankless models are only for Hot water, meaning that Cold water is not used in conjunction with Hot water...
So that is my question, of all the tankless brands out there, which ones allow the water temperature to be set by adding cold water, like a typical house?
Thanks
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Old 02-07-2023, 01:08 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by 2nd House View Post
Hello
Thanking about tankless. However, I've been told that the tankless models are only for Hot water, meaning that Cold water is not used in conjunction with Hot water...
So that is my question, of all the tankless brands out there, which ones allow the water temperature to be set by adding cold water, like a typical house?
Thanks
Well, let's say you are taking a shower. You turn on the hot water faucet and the water is too hot. So, then you turn on the cold water faucet to mix cold water with the hot water to adjust the temperature coming out of the shower head. Am I missing something here?
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Old 02-07-2023, 02:04 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
Well, let's say you are taking a shower. You turn on the hot water faucet and the water is too hot. So, then you turn on the cold water faucet to mix cold water with the hot water to adjust the temperature coming out of the shower head. Am I missing something here?
Yep. At least for most older tankless operation. Temp is controlled by flow rate through the tankless heater. The longer the water stays within the heater, the hotter it gets.
You turn on only the hot water. If the water is too hot, you increase flow by turning the knob for more hot water. Too cold, you lower the flow by turning the hot valve down.
If you do introduce cold water into the mix, it usually results in temperature fluctuation from very hot, to very cold.
Of course, some of the newer tankless models address this problem, so they work more like standard water heaters operation.
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
Well, let's say you are taking a shower. You turn on the hot water faucet and the water is too hot. So, then you turn on the cold water faucet to mix cold water with the hot water to adjust the temperature coming out of the shower head. Am I missing something here?
Correct...and it doesnt work. Currently, I'm using an Excel brand and I dont like it, water never really gets hot, at least not in the winter.
I believe some of the newer tankless models, which fit into existing area of hot water heater area, now have the ability to add cold water, to control temperature, more like a typical household.
Has anyone had suceess with this style, and if so, which heater has this ability?
Thanks for the help
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:36 AM   #5
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I have a tankless at home and had one in a 2016 Lance, not a fan. You use more water waiting for it to warm up or if the flow is too low it shuts off and you're running more water waiting for it to kick in again. Boondocking is not where you want to be wasting water. Supposedly saves gas but we only turn on our trailer water heater maybe 30 minutes before a shower and turn it back off again, it heats up so fast, this uses little gas.
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 2nd House View Post
Correct...and it doesnt work. Currently, I'm using an Excel brand and I dont like it, water never really gets hot, at least not in the winter.
I believe some of the newer tankless models, which fit into existing area of hot water heater area, now have the ability to add cold water, to control temperature, more like a typical household.
Has anyone had suceess with this style, and if so, which heater has this ability?
Thanks for the help
Does your tankless water heater have a temperature adjustment?

My friend has to change his summer into fall.

He adjusts the temp with the shower hot valve full open. Cooler in the summer and hotter in the winter.

Most of the R/V tankless water heaters are designed to NOT use the cold shower valve for mixing.
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Old 02-07-2023, 11:02 AM   #7
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Correct...and it doesnt work. Currently, I'm using an Excel brand and I dont like it, water never really gets hot, at least not in the winter.
I believe some of the newer tankless models, which fit into existing area of hot water heater area, now have the ability to add cold water, to control temperature, more like a typical household.
Has anyone had suceess with this style, and if so, which heater has this ability?
Thanks for the help

While I'm not fond of the tankless we have, I guess I'm puzzled why you say adding cold water "doesn't work". How so? Ours will cool off if we turn the cold on too but the water is still warm. If you're talking about the ones with the mixing bowl in them that automatically blend cold and hot so they have more stable outlet temperature as demand changes, I'm pretty sure Furrion and Girard do. I thought most of them did, but maybe not all of them.



Not getting hot enough is a separate issue, which I do experience with ours, because Forest River gave us a comparatively weak 42,000 BTU Furrion unit that has a hard time getting up to 120 degrees. It tops out around 105-110 if the incoming water is quite cold and trying to run the shower. My strategy now is I set it for 105 since it's a comfortable shower temperature for us, and only turn the hot water on.
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Old 02-07-2023, 01:19 PM   #8
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Not getting hot enough is a separate issue, which I do experience with ours, because Forest River gave us a comparatively weak 42,000 BTU Furrion unit that has a hard time getting up to 120 degrees. It tops out around 105-110 if the incoming water is quite cold and trying to run the shower. My strategy now is I set it for 105 since it's a comfortable shower temperature for us, and only turn the hot water on.

We have that same problem but I consider it very minor.
Our Girard unit has the control board located near the shower so we set it to what ever temperature we want for the shower. We don't have to add cold water. Wife and I love it whether we are boon docking or have full hookups. We can take a shower same as if we were home when we have full hookups, boondocking we still enjoy the fact you never run out of hot water. Over course we have 160 gallons of water under the trailer, sometimes take an extra 55 gal when we are going to stay out for 2 weeks. We've never run out of water that way.
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Old 02-07-2023, 01:54 PM   #9
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Aquahot

I am more used to the aguahot system that does have a control to add cold water, but that is because the temperature of the hot water inside the aquahot unit is much higher than a typical water heater. Because the Aquahot is multifunction and requires higher temps for the coach heating system. If it is just a on demand hot water tank it seems counterintuitive to me. Why would you waste the energy to overheat the water and then add cold water to bring the temperature back down. Just set the temperature of the water heater lower and/or adjust the "antiscald" protection at the shower control head.
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Old 02-07-2023, 02:00 PM   #10
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Hello
Thanking about tankless. However, I've been told that the tankless models are only for Hot water, meaning that Cold water is not used in conjunction with Hot water...
So that is my question, of all the tankless brands out there, which ones allow the water temperature to be set by adding cold water, like a typical house?
Thanks
That's how they are suppose to work. You've got to turn on the hot water, then add cold til you get the temp you want.
The only problem is that if the propane shuts off in the tankless as you shower, you only get cold.

Unfortunately, I don't know which newer models have solved that problem (ours is a 2015)
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dsherman26 View Post
While I'm not fond of the tankless we have, I guess I'm puzzled why you say adding cold water "doesn't work". How so? Ours will cool off if we turn the cold on too but the water is still warm. If you're talking about the ones with the mixing bowl in them that automatically blend cold and hot so they have more stable outlet temperature as demand changes, I'm pretty sure Furrion and Girard do. I thought most of them did, but maybe not all of them.



Not getting hot enough is a separate issue, which I do experience with ours, because Forest River gave us a comparatively weak 42,000 BTU Furrion unit that has a hard time getting up to 120 degrees. It tops out around 105-110 if the incoming water is quite cold and trying to run the shower. My strategy now is I set it for 105 since it's a comfortable shower temperature for us, and only turn the hot water on.
The Excel water heater I have is usually luke warm at best. However, if I really let it run a very long time, it will get hot. This is when I add a little cold water. Adding cold water must somehow slow flow down or confuses it, because the burner goes off, and I have ice cold water. When this happens, I have to turn hot water all the way off, then turn it back on and I hear the unit ignite again. only to wait a very long time for hot water...and the cycle repeats.
To try and combat the luke warm water, I have adjusted the water heater to slow the flow of water thru the unit, and adjust the gas way up. Slowing the flow of water thru the unit is supposed to have hotterwater, as the water stays in the unit longer. At any rate, the excel heater is a very inexpensive heater, so you get what you pay for. And it certainly is better than no hot water. I suppose the really bad part is the amount of water wasted waiting for luke warm water.
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:22 PM   #12
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We have that same problem but I consider it very minor.
Our Girard unit has the control board located near the shower so we set it to what ever temperature we want for the shower. We don't have to add cold water. Wife and I love it whether we are boon docking or have full hookups. We can take a shower same as if we were home when we have full hookups, boondocking we still enjoy the fact you never run out of hot water. Over course we have 160 gallons of water under the trailer, sometimes take an extra 55 gal when we are going to stay out for 2 weeks. We've never run out of water that way.
So if I read this correctly, having a hot shower is simply adjusting the digital thrmostat close by, reguareless if it is a hot summer day, or in the middle of winter?
If in winter, and very cold temps are outside, does the Girard still have enough energy to have a warm shower?
Thanks
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:51 PM   #13
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So if I read this correctly, having a hot shower is simply adjusting the digital thrmostat close by, reguareless if it is a hot summer day, or in the middle of winter?
If in winter, and very cold temps are outside, does the Girard still have enough energy to have a warm shower?
Thanks
That is how our Fogatti works. We camped in below freezing conditions in the GSM this past December and never had a cold or luke warm shower.

We don't turn the cold in the shower on anymore. It actually causes the tankless unit to provide inconsistent hot water. Same with a pressure regulator on the city water supply side. The cold water and the regulator lower the gpm flow through the unit and it cycles on and off, instead of staying on with the water flowing through.
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Old 02-08-2023, 12:29 AM   #14
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Thank you all for educating me! I did not realize RV tankless water heaters were so difficult! I think I will keep my tankless gas water heater at home that we love and stick with the traditional 6 gallon tank in the trailer that has never failed to give us as much hot water as we have ever needed!
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Old 02-08-2023, 07:59 AM   #15
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Tankless water heaters 'can' be great but most are not. Technology is catching up for R/Vs but still, for the amount of water wasted when boondocking, they have a ways to go. The Showermiser valve helps.

If you always have hook-ups the they can provide endless hot water but like Navy LCDR said, 6-10-and 12 gallon tank heaters have been providing plenty of hot water for years.

Our current unit has a 12 gallon tank but for the 40+ years before that, we only ever had a 6. Using both methods of heating when taking back to back showers never let us run out of enough hot water. If I ever felt when camping that I needed a 20 minute shower with steaming hot water I'd go to the bath house. I understand those that live full time in them look at things differently but full timers are the minority when it comes to R/V ownership.
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Old 02-08-2023, 08:19 AM   #16
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Tankless water heaters 'can' be great but most are not. Technology is catching up for R/Vs but still, for the amount of water wasted when boondocking, they have a ways to go. The Showermiser valve helps.

If you always have hook-ups the they can provide endless hot water but like Navy LCDR said, 6-10-and 12 gallon tank heaters have been providing plenty of hot water for years.

Our current unit has a 12 gallon tank but for the 40+ years before that, we only ever had a 6. Using both methods of heating when taking back to back showers never let us run out of enough hot water. If I ever felt when camping that I needed a 20 minute shower with steaming hot water I'd go to the bath house. I understand those that live full time in them look at things differently but full timers are the minority when it comes to R/V ownership.
Good points. However, truly endless hot water from a tankless would also require endless propane.

In addition, for campers like us that don’t have a permanent site and usually have electric hookup but no water/sewer, the tank heater allows us to heat the water with the electricity we’re already paying for with the site fee. We go two to three years on a propane tank fill because we most always heat water with electricity, an option that I assume is not available on tankless heaters.
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Old 02-08-2023, 06:45 PM   #17
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Good points. However, truly endless hot water from a tankless would also require endless propane.
LOL!! Let us know when you can take a shower that lasts the many days it would take to use even one propane tank
If you want to be that literal, you might as well add endless water.
If you don't like tankless, don't use one....
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Old 02-08-2023, 08:17 PM   #18
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I don't know why I feel the need to jump into this discussion. I guess I got 15 minutes to kill until dinner is ready.

But for giggles I looked it up. Etrailer says that a 20lb propane tank will run a Furion water heater for a little over 7 hours. To me that is burning a lot of propane. I'll stick with the free electric heat.

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Question:
Approximately how much gas with this unit use

asked by: Wendell

Checkmark IconHelpful Expert Reply:
The Furrion RV Tankless Water Heater - Gas - Automatic Pilot - 60,000 BTU # FR93FR at its maximum output will produce 60,000 BTU an hour. So at its highest setting if it ran constantly (which it won't, it only runs on demand.) It will consume 0.65 gallons of propane an hour. If you want to look at it per day it would be 15.75 gallons of propane per day if it ran non-stop.

Since it runs on demand the hourly rate is up to the user. It may seem like it burns a lot of propane but if you think about how a water heater with a tank needs to keep warming up the water every so often it will even out.

A standard sized 20-pound propane cylinder holds approximately 430,000 BTUs of liquid propane. Each gallon of propane contains 91,502 BTUs of potential heat and each pound contains approximately 21,548 BTUs.

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Old 02-08-2023, 08:34 PM   #19
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Well, I know that's not right

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I don't know why I feel the need to jump into this discussion. I guess I got 15 minutes to kill until dinner is ready.

But for giggles I looked it up. Etrailer says that a 20lb propane tank will run a Furion water heater for a little over 7 hours. To me that is burning a lot of propane. I'll stick with the free electric heat.
Well, I know that's not right. Our Cherokee 38P has the ubiquitous Suburban SW6DE water heater. When we first got it, the electric element was burnt out. I had other priorities for the first couple of years (and our electricity is metered) so we used propane.

In the spring, summer, and fall we spend a lot of time in the trailer. Sometimes one or two weeks at a time, sometimes a series of 4-day weekends. We estimate that we spend 30% of our time in the trailer over the year.

When we are there, we turn on the water heater at arrival and don't turn it off until we leave. A 30 lb. propane bottle has always lasted the entire summer. We don't really start exchanging bottles until the furnace is in use.

FWIW, we use the water mostly for washing dishes. We take our showers in the campground bath house because our lot has electricity and water but no sewer and we don't like to empty the sewage tote that often.
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Old 02-09-2023, 10:50 PM   #20
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Well,
Thanks for all the help, this was a nice conversation. This whole conversation I started, simply to try and figure out which type of water heater I want for a cabin I am building, in a very remote area.
I have decided...it will be a Suburban 12 gallon traditioanal. I found with the excel tankless that I was using (when the little 6 gallon Suburban finially stopped in my Cherokee) seems to use a lot of water.
Where the cabin is located, water is the utmost precious commodity...
And, with the Subruban, I will use electric to heat, because propane is hard to have delivered in a remote area like this.
Saving propane is vitially important, especially making sure enough is available for winters, and backup for when the electric stops, like when a buzzard lands on a transformer and blows it up! I can still have hot water with dual heating ways.
So thanks everyone for helping me make up my mind which way to go...
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