2020 Ford F250 6.2 vs 7.3 Gas

[The Big Toe]

Originally Posted by Fishtexx

I agree with being leary of first year anything. Ford is putting their reputation on the line with the 7.3, as it is targeted to their heavy duty commercial buyers/users. They have updated a proven design and built it for hard work and reliability. Many people have complained about wishing it had more HP and torque. I think this engine is fully capable of much more, and we will see that in the future. Ford has been very conservative with this one to establish that reliability reputation. Emissions standards have hurt the diesel engines reliability and severely drove up the cost of ownership, causing the commercial guys to look at alternative power for their vehicles. The power of the 6.7 diesel is awesome, but most users find they really don't need that much power considering the added expense and loss of reliability. These are the reasons I traded my 2018 6.7 for the 2020 7.3. If I was still a commercial fleet manager (retired) I would be investing heavily in these except where the added power of the 6.7 diesel was necessary. I look for more power from them as time goes on, after proving design reliability and building reputation. For my use, so far, I am very pleased with mine. As with anything "new" time will tell.

One of the biggest reasons Ford went to the pushrod 7.3 is size.

On OHC engines, their heads take up a lot of room.

And Ford needed something for their Vans and Motorhomes since the V10 has seen its better days. Ford sells a LOT of Van Bodies that are used for Motorhomes. And the 6.2L OHC takes up a lot of space. They probably want to move into boat engines as well with the 7.3

The 7.3 is, IMHO, a giant leap backward, technology-wise, but it's good for high torque/low RPM applications and where compartment space is at a premium.

People aren't real happy with having to remove the entire Cab on a Power Stroke to do much more than change the oil and they don't want to get the reputation of being almost impossible to work on. Hence the 1950's tech pushrod 7.3

Just my $.02 and worth even less

[ronheater70]

I think the 7.3 is going to turn out to be a fantastic motor, however Im also of the mindset of I dont see all the extra cost and mantenance of the diesel vs gas engine. I went froma 6.4 Hemi to a 6.7 Cummins, and so far for me in the 22K miles its been nearly a wash. Oil changes are more expensive but 1/2 as often and fuel filters / water seperators cost me 125 bucks every 15K miles. Diesel fluctuates between 40 cents more a gallon to 15 cents less here so that is a variable thats ever changing.
Now having a fear hanging over your head about something you feel may be an issue down the road with emissions (or anything else) for that matter can certainly take the enjoyment out of ownership and I totally get that. I also understand if the need is not there for the diesel truck as well, But really the need is not there for 200 MPH cars and bikes either, but they are fun!

I am interested to see what this 7.3 is the start of. I feel that GM and RAM will need to do some tweaking to keep up. I think that these newer gas notors will definitley start cutting into Diesel sales as more folks second think things like the OP. If they can get a truck to do the work they need it to do for a cheaper price then its definitley worthwhile!

[Tundra 2014]

Sorry, I should have said-I have never had my "Regen" light come on in 15K of mixed city and highway driving. I have never had to get back on the highway and drive additional milage to get "Regen" light off. More a comment that in my experience the system has worked seamlessly. When I purchased my 2019 F-350 diesel the 7.3 was not available or I would have considered it. I am happy w/ my choice and having auto engine brake is a big advantage over any gas motor. I was very impressed how well it worked pulling in the mountains of the west.
I like that you can get the 10 speed transmission w/ the 7.3 for less than a 6.7 diesel. I doubt you would be able to get the total difference in price comparison off on a new truck. A case of "Supply and Demand"-both dealers I visited each had one 7.3 on their lots. All the dyno numbers I have seen on the 7.3 came out w/ less than spec'ed horsepower and torque numbers though. I think there is a lot of potential in the 7.3 combination to improve and it makes power at a lower RPM than a 6.2.

[The Big Toe]

Originally Posted by Tundra 2014

Sorry, I should have said-I have never had my "Regen" light come on in 15K of mixed city and highway driving. I have never had to get back on the highway and drive additional milage to get "Regen" light off. More a comment that in my experience the system has worked seamlessly. When I purchased my 2019 F-350 diesel the 7.3 was not available or I would have considered it. I am happy w/ my choice and having auto engine brake is a big advantage over any gas motor. I was very impressed how well it worked pulling in the mountains of the west.
I like that you can get the 10 speed transmission w/ the 7.3 for less than a 6.7 diesel. I doubt you would be able to get the total difference in price comparison off on a new truck. A case of "Supply and Demand"-both dealers I visited each had one 7.3 on their lots. All the dyno numbers I have seen on the 7.3 came out w/ less than spec'ed horsepower and torque numbers though. I think there is a lot of potential in the 7.3 combination to improve and it makes power at a lower RPM than a 6.2.

IMHO, you made the right decision. By miles and miles.

The only reason the 7.3 is at a premium now is because of one thing and one thing only -- They can get it.

The 7.3 is actually a lot cheaper to make than the 6.2 and as time goes on, economic realities will reflect that.

The 7.3 isn't a bad motor, it just is what it is. I like it. I respect it. But it's just another pushrod motor. There's a place for it but to think it will compete with a diesel is misguided.

Now - If you don't need 1,000 lb-ft of torque, the 7.3 might fit into that certain niche and be just what the doctor ordered..... But it's not a Power Stroke. no way

[BriaBeck]

I don't mean to hijack my own thread here, but as I was driving home from the airport yesterday I was thinking...


I wonder if it would be possible, with todays' computers and Fuel Injection technology, to build an engine, that ran spark ignition, but used both gasoline AND diesel fuel? The FCS (fuel control system) could inject both gas and diesel concurrently and in the correct proportion for the load and conditions. It would probably have high compression, on the order of maybe 13 to 1, but not so high that the charge would self-ignite. This way the ignition timing could still be accurately controlled, and thus possible realizing the benefits of both technologies (gas and diesel) but without the NOX issues of the diesel. Almost the same torque available as a compression ignition diesel, but without the emissions equipment nightmare that we have now with regens and muffler fluid and all that.



I'm no engine expert, don't claim to be. Just a thought... I wonder if it would work. Maybe it's already been tried and failed? Like I said... just a thought

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by The Big Toe

IMHO, you made the right decision. By miles and miles.

The only reason the 7.3 is at a premium now is because of one thing and one thing only -- They can get it.

The 7.3 is actually a lot cheaper to make than the 6.2 and as time goes on, economic realities will reflect that.

The 7.3 isn't a bad motor, it just is what it is. I like it. I respect it. But it's just another pushrod motor. There's a place for it but to think it will compete with a diesel is misguided.

Now - If you don't need 1,000 lb-ft of torque, the 7.3 might fit into that certain niche and be just what the doctor ordered..... But it's not a Power Stroke. no way

I don't think anyone is saying it is a replacement for the PSD... but it is an alternative.

I'm betting that the advertised Tq and HP numbers were raw from the crankshaft, not from the rear wheels. Which is fine by me. I'm just looking for something with more grunt, and less scream... and without the diesel EPA mandated emissions garbage and the big $$$ associated with those components if they fail after warranty.


Another thing I'm looking at is the price of entry... for the price difference between the 7.3 and the 6.7PSD, that's a lot of gas


Looking down the road, I don't see why a turbo could not be added to the 7.3 with proper engineering. Granted, it's going to drink gas like it was going out of style, but if the engine is built for it, it could reliably outperform the 6.7PSD. Which... maybe is what the engineers at Ford are looking at as well... This 7.3 could be the start of something good... Time will tell!!

[aircommuter]

The 7.3 has oil cooled pistons, the only reason I can see for that is there may be a turbocharger in its future. Probably another reason to wait.
For me in our tax hungry state I see no reason to feed all that money to them every year along with higher insurance so I can say I have anew truck.
My 2004 Cummins powered truck just keeps running and has all the options I need.

[hobienick]

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

I don't mean to hijack my own thread here, but as I was driving home from the airport yesterday I was thinking...


I wonder if it would be possible, with todays' computers and Fuel Injection technology, to build an engine, that ran spark ignition, but used both gasoline AND diesel fuel? The FCS (fuel control system) could inject both gas and diesel concurrently and in the correct proportion for the load and conditions. It would probably have high compression, on the order of maybe 13 to 1, but not so high that the charge would self-ignite. This way the ignition timing could still be accurately controlled, and thus possible realizing the benefits of both technologies (gas and diesel) but without the NOX issues of the diesel. Almost the same torque available as a compression ignition diesel, but without the emissions equipment nightmare that we have now with regens and muffler fluid and all that.



I'm no engine expert, don't claim to be. Just a thought... I wonder if it would work. Maybe it's already been tried and failed? Like I said... just a thought

Mazda has an SPCCI (SPark Controlled Compression Ignition) engine that does what I understand you are saying.

The next step after this are Entry Ignition engines.

There is some really cool internal combustion development happening as we speak.

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by hobienick

Mazda has an SPCCI (SPark Controlled Compression Ignition) engine that does what I understand you are saying.

The next step after this are Entry Ignition engines.

There is some really cool internal combustion development happening as we speak.

Yeah, I read about the Mazda engines a while back, but if I remember correctly, I think they still only use gasoline.


Never heard of "Entry Ignition"... I'll have to look that up.


What I was thinking of is an engine that runs on both gasoline and diesel at the same time... Like I said, crazy idea. But, who knows??? Sometimes crazy ideas work, LOL!

[The Big Toe]

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

Yeah, I read about the Mazda engines a while back, but if I remember correctly, I think they still only use gasoline.


Never heard of "Entry Ignition"... I'll have to look that up.


What I was thinking of is an engine that runs on both gasoline and diesel at the same time... Like I said, crazy idea. But, who knows??? Sometimes crazy ideas work, LOL!

The next revolution in trucks will be hybrid technology and pure electric.

I don't see the EV in trucks any time soon but the Hybrid is already being offered in the Ram 1500.

Electric pulls like a freight train. In fact, it's what is in most freight trains. Diesel Electric.

Maybe turbine electric is in the future.

[acadianbob]

The key with whatever gas engine you get is gearing. We pull a 11K fiver with our 6.2; no issues; including the Rockies. I ordered my truck with the 4.30 gearset. It makes a big difference. You won't hear any increase in noise as the difference in RPM at 65 mph is about 300 RPM. And fuel economy is fine. We get 8 MPG towing and I get 16 MPG unloaded knocking around our rural area day-to-day. That 300 RPM is helpful getting the motor closer to the torque band and it also provides better "leverage" for moving the load.

That being said, I'll get the 7.3 next time. The torque curve looks a lot better around 2,000 RPM. I've heard that the 7.3 feels like the Ecoboost at the low end of the RPM range. The Ecoboost is noted for great low RPM torque.

[hobienick]

Originally Posted by The Big Toe

The next revolution in trucks will be hybrid technology and pure electric.

I don't see the EV in trucks any time soon but the Hybrid is already being offered in the Ram 1500.

Electric pulls like a freight train. In fact, it's what is in most freight trains. Diesel Electric.

Maybe turbine electric is in the future.

Electric in trucks won't happen until we have a commercially available battery with energy density approaching fossil fuels and a reasonable recharge time. Possibly when a battery swap infrastructure is available.

Series hybrids make some sense, like your locomotive example. But, if you are going to have the weight and complexity of a diesel is it worth adding in an electric motor and battery on top of that? Maybe you could use a smaller diesel to reduce the weight.

Turbines are not efficient at low altitudes where we drive. This includes mountains. They are light, compact, and can burn multiple fuels. Plus the make jet noises.

We are getting close on the battery front. The new batteries being developed now has crazy high (relatively speaking) energy densities. Once proven out we need to figure out how to mass produce them. Then agree on a standard to build infrastructure around. A VHS vs. Betamax thing would be aggravating.

[The Big Toe]

Big Red, from 1964

[aircommuter]

The only reason trains and big mining trucks are Diesel-electric is because the power distribution components would be too big and costly. Wires are cheaper.
The total electric vehicle like others have said is a ways off due to the weight and recharge time. Even the modern cars we have now are mostly only good for city use. Not to mention the cost will be escalating when the battery will no longer take a charge and the government starts taxing electricity for roads. We also need a major change in our electricity supply.

[copwad]

I have a 2020 6.7 diesel. I strongly recommend a diesel no matter which brand if you are a serious camper. I have had numerous combinations of gas/diesel trucks, I’m now back to diesel and staying .

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by copwad

I have a 2020 6.7 diesel. I strongly recommend a diesel no matter which brand if you are a serious camper. I have had numerous combinations of gas/diesel trucks, I’m now back to diesel and staying .

I agree as I have driven numerous vehicles and I have had CDL since I was 22 so I could drive what I worked on, then I started a second business with trucks and tractors.
Manufacturers are just trying to lure some buyers into thinking a gas engine will be just as good for RVs. The buyers are also trying to convince themselves.

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by The Big Toe

I'm a Ford guy. Cut me and my blood runs blue.

But when it comes to the money I use to support my family.....

I bought a Ram 2500 Cummins. You can get one for about the price of a happy meal over that of an F-250 gasser.

Pulls like a freight train and it's got a sweet exhaust brake. Pull with an exhaust brake and you'll never go back.

I have a GENUINE FORD friend. He named his son Ford and his daughter Shelby. Swear to goodness. His buddy said heck I can name my daughter Chevy... and did, but this is Arkansas.

[johnruff]

I have a 2014 6.7L diesel and have no problems with it. Of course I use additives per Powerstrokehelp.com and keep it cleaned up. It has been a great truck and still looks like new - I have even had people come to my home and ask if they could purchase it from me.

All that being said, if I were buying one now and had the 7.3 gasoline option, I would probably take it. I previously had a 1999 F250 V10 and had no problems with it. No more DEF, no more keeping the emissions clean with additives. Again, i really like my truck and just today had a young female comment on it when I took my dog to the vet. Another time, I had two ladies at church follow me out because I had that truck. I never knew a truck could be a chick magnet much to my wife's consternation. I am now 72, been married for 32 years and very happy.

[KB9VBT]

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

woo10-210,


Have you had the 6.2 in any hills/mountains with your rig? I'm thinking of mountains/hills like Tenessee Smoky Mountains, etc. Not too concerned about the Rockies, ie. Big Mountains.

I've had my 6.2 to East Tennessee several times. Total weight on truck and trailer is 15,800 LBS. I ran I 64 from Louisville KY to I 75 south. Pulled Jellico mountain running between 65 and 70. Acutely like this truck better that the 2011 with 6.7 diesel I had

[jrk341]

It's not a turbo but a supercharger.

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/...-supercharger/