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Old 02-23-2021, 03:35 PM   #1
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2205S & Tundra: Tow & Go or No, No,No!!!!

Hi, we are looking at a new Mini Lite 2205S. It weighs 5000 lbs empty with a max of 6690 lbs and a hitch weight of 530 lbs. The front hitch will have two 30lb tanks, no batteries on the tongue as we're going Lithium and they will be against the inside wall in the pass through. With water and cargo it will weigh out at aprox 6300 lbs.
My tow vehicle is my like new 2006 Toyota Tundra TRD with tow package. It has the 4.7 engine, 5 spd trans with tow selector, 4 wd. truck is a little over 100K miles. Have had since new and have treated it like the goddess that she is.
My Tundra has 1300 lbs CCC and 7100 lbs tow capacity. We weigh 320 lbs combined, will add a Leer Topper that will add 200 lbs to the CCC used. I will carry a extra 10gal of gas in the back along with 20 extra gal. of water and two extra 30lb lp tanks. Inverter weighs 40lbs, assorted tool about 100 lbs. I am going to add either Sumo's or a Roadmaster to help the suspension along with a additional transmission cooler.
We will be primarily full timers, boondocking on BLM grounds, dry camping, chasing 50 to 80 degree weather.
Is this looking like a decent and safe set up? I will down size more on the trailer before even considering a different truck.....love my Tundra!
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:06 AM   #2
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You will exceed payload capacity by hundreds of pounds. And that 4.7 will be screaming when you go up hills or mountains. Personally, I wouldn't do it. My 2016 Silverado had 1572 lbs of payload capacity. But when I accounted for the topper, step bars, cargo mat, air bags and mud flaps, I had only had 1310 lbs of payload capacity left. Add in me, the wife, the dog, two generators, cooler and all the other other stuff that goes in the bed, plus 700 lbs of tongue weight, and I was way over gross. That's why I now have the 2019 Silverado with the Max Trailering package. No worries about not enough power or capacity, whether it be payload, hitch, rear axle, trailer, GVWR or GCVWR.
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:27 AM   #3
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You're going to push that goddess past it's limit. We also have a 2006 Tundra and towed a max 5100 lb trailer (3,000 pound unloaded weight) which we didn't load to max.. It towed that with no problem, but we didn't have the extras that you're going to carry in addition to the heavier trailer.
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Old 02-24-2021, 04:48 AM   #4
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Sounds like it time to look at a smaller lighter weight trailer, cut back on what I would carry.......maybe leave the wife behind? but the Golden Retriever is a must.
I had been looking at a Winnebago micro minnie with quite a bit of lesser trailer weight although CCC is my nemesis.
Wonder if I stayed with the 2205S but forgot the topper and cut what I carried by half if that would put me in a workable set up.
My last and VERY last option would be trade the goddess in on a late model Tundra. It's the only truck I would consider because of durability. 2nd last option would be a F-150 with the 5.0 engine
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Old 02-24-2021, 01:23 PM   #5
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[our experience]
On our last (fully loaded) dry camping trip, our Roo's weight (WDH connected) was ~6000#. Tongue weight was 760#.

On that trip, the truck's cargo (460#), occupants + dog (500#) and hitch weight (100#) came to 1060#. Add that to the tongue weight and you get 1820#. With a payload rating of 1980#, that left only 160# of payload to spare.

The 5.0 V8's 395-hp and 400-ft/lbs of torque coupled with the 3.73 ratio handled the job of towing, but I would have preferred a bit more torque. Not bad, though, but definitely not enough for crossing mountains without a lot of gear changes.
[/our experience]

Thus, IMHO, I sense you will be pushing your Tundra too far with that setup and will probably blow past your 1300# payload capacity before it even starts rolling. You also need to compare the MiniLite's frontal area with the Tundra's published frontal sq ft limitation. That may rule out the TV by itself.

BTW - the 530# hitch weight is a useless number since it is based on the TT's dry weight. It's usually safer to calculate about 12.5% of the TT's GVWR, which in your case is about 836#. Even based on your estimated 6300#, that comes to 787#. Subtracting 787# from your 1300# max payload, you are left with only 513# of payload. From that subtract your weight of the occupants, 320#, and the payload is now down to 193#. Now, subtract from that the topper and you have blown your payload limit even before you subtract the weight of your hitch, extra water and fuel, LP tanks, inverter and tools. Oh, and don't forget that any equipment you add to the Tundra (suspension bits) will subtract from the available payload as well.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:13 PM   #6
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Buy a real truck and leave the TOY ota for a grocery getter soccor mom
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:30 PM   #7
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Smile Great Tundra

I would consider a bigger Tundra or smaller trailer before buy Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. I have a 2017 Double Cab 5.7L and tow 2503 and a 24 foot boat with no issued. Iíve either had or driven the other trucks and my American made Toyota is a keeper. Block cast in Iowa, Engine assembled in Alabama, Truck assembled in Texas. I know this might start a storm but I really like my truck over all other brands. This is my opinion so please be gentle.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:31 PM   #8
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My spelling is really bad, huh.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog2020 View Post
I would consider a bigger Tundra or smaller trailer before buy Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. I have a 2017 Double Cab 5.7L and tow 2503 and a 24 foot boat with no issued. Iíve either had or driven the other trucks and my American made Toyota is a keeper. Block cast in Iowa, Engine assembled in Alabama, Truck assembled in Texas. I know this might start a storm but I really like my truck over all other brands. This is my opinion so please be gentle.

They are not mafe to do more than light hauling. Huge difference towing a boat over a solid front. Keep it, look at small light trailers. You mentioned "full time", and thinking of making do instead of doing correctly.
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:27 PM   #10
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capt, can't be any more brutally honest than that
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RET.LEO View Post
..........
My Tundra has 1300 lbs CCC and 7100 lbs tow capacity. We weigh 320 lbs combined, will add a Leer Topper that will add 200 lbs to the CCC used. I will carry a extra 10gal of gas in the back along with 20 extra gal. of water and two extra 30lb lp tanks. Inverter weighs 40lbs, assorted tool about 100 lbs. I am going to add either Sumo's or a Roadmaster to help the suspension along with a additional transmission cooler.
We will be primarily full timers, boondocking on BLM grounds, dry camping, chasing 50 to 80 degree weather.
Is this looking like a decent and safe set up? I will down size more on the trailer before even considering a different truck.....love my Tundra!
Is your 1300 lbs CCC you listed from the payload sticker on the driver's door jam? I had a 2009 F150 Platinum, Screw, 5.0, 5.5 bed and it only had 860 lbs of payload as listed on the payload sticker. Between me and my wife we used 350 lbs, leaving us with only 510 lbs left for tongue weight. My 09 was a great, comfortable, truck, but it was not a tow vehicle . I ended up trading it on a 2010 F250, PSD.

As others have said, I believe you'll be was outside your trucks true 'as built' payload (CCC), especially with all the items you mentioned you expected to carry. Some people have given you good advice here.

I currently tow a 25'7" Vibe 21BH and my Scaled tongue weight is 940 lbs. My current truck has 1810 lbs of payload (from the door jam sticker).

I've been where your are with my 2009 F150, so I understand.
-Russ
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Old 02-24-2021, 04:00 PM   #12
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Maddog2020 is right. Only thing I could add is that you need to contact me before you sell your '06.
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Old 02-24-2021, 04:17 PM   #13
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lol, good one Dirt. Finding a used Tundra in good shape is no easy feat!
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Old 02-24-2021, 05:23 PM   #14
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Oh great, next thing you know this will degrade into the diesel vs gas, Chevy vs Ford, Ford vs Dodge pissin match LOL
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Old 02-24-2021, 06:47 PM   #15
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RET.LEO

In my post #11, I asked if the 1300# CCC you stated was from the driver's door sticker (Tread Act of 2000) or was that from the 2006 Tundra brochure? You hadn't replied. The number on the Tread Act sticker is the true payload of a truck (or car) based on how the vehicle is built. The more accessories/options on a vehicle the lower that number gets. Just trying to help make sure you use the correct numbers for your Tundra when considering remaining payload.
-Russ

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Old 02-24-2021, 07:06 PM   #16
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In addition to not having enough truck to tow you may not have enough truck to stop.
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Old 02-24-2021, 07:20 PM   #17
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The Mini Lites are pretty posh small rigs. They are all a little porky, and many have very heavy tongue weights.
But the 2109S seems to have many of the features of the 2205 S with more than 100# less on the tongue and about 1000# less GVWR.
Look at specs carefully, because the 2104S is FAR heavier on the tongue and GVWR. Go figure.

Also, you mentioned carrying two spare 30# propane tanks. Very likely unnecessary. I have 30# tanks on my rig, and I've never come close to running out...even on a 10 day boondocking trip. I DO carry a couple 20# tanks to run my propane firepit...an essential here in drought-plagued Colorado, where fire bans are the rule rather than the exception.
I also carry 28 gallons of water in jugs. We are profligate water users, because we can. But I have only a 30 gallon fresh tank. The 2109S has a 52 gallon fresh tank. You could leave your water jugs dry and go fill up if necessary and bring them back to your site only if needed. At 8.3#/gallon, leaving 10 gallons of water behind and downsizing your spare propane to 20# tanks will save some significant weight.

Then there's the truck "cap." Why? That's 200# of ground hugging weight that also makes transporting fuels more dangerous in that enclosed space. Think of it: propane, gas for a generator, the generator itself (full of fuel and oil). It's better to carry them out in the open where any gasoline fumes can escape, and if a full propane tank gets really warm and vents a bit, that propane is not trapped.

If you want a "trunk," my solution was an aluminum truck-bed mounted tool box. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...B&gclsrc=aw.ds One of these weighs in around 25 to 50 pounds. It will hold a ton of stuff and keep it dry. I bought mine in 2008, and it's still water-tight and secure nearly 13 years later. It's a wonderful "trunk," and it does not hamper my use of the open bed.

You said you'd go smaller on the rig before sacrificing your Tundra. The 2109S might be the answer. You'd sacrifice 18" in overall length, the fireplace, and the big pantry. Not much else. Still pretty lux.

Lighter still? The Ibex 19QBS, and it's a boondocking machine...whereas the Mini Lite is more lux and needs some suspension mods to be truly suitable for the outback. The Ibex is a "rock crawler" with lifted suspension and larger off-road tires.

There are other brands, of course, but given your attraction to the Mini Lite, I gather that posh is desirable.

Some serious omissions from your list of "dead weight". Generator. A 2KW genny will weigh in around 70# "wet." Then there's at least a gallon of gas...about 10# including the plastic container. What about 'toys?' Kayak, bicycles, float tubes, air pump, folding chairs, canopy, gas grill, and, and, and. Then there's the WDH to add to the tongue weight...figure 75#. You mentioned airbags or similar suspension mods...not heavy, but they do weigh something. (I have Firestone Airbags on mine, and I love them.) With all that cargo, even that 2109S might be the last straw on cargo/tongue weight. And don't fool yourself, you're going to accumulate that stuff and more.

Finally, you must remember that you MUST have about 10% or MORE on the tongue so that the tail won't wag the dog. If you load the trailer heavily, and if you put heavy cargo inside the rig on the floor at the REAR of the trailer thinking you'll lighten the tongue weight, you could create weight and balance problem that could make your new trailer an evil-handling beast. A 5000# trailer NEEDS to have 500# on the tongue. You do the math on what you desire.

Anyway, I'm in the chorus that's saying you need to lighten up, but you have several good options from Forest River...and other brands, too. If you love your Tundra, choose the right RV to tow with it.

P.S. You "confessed" that your Tundra does not have the "factory max tow package"...whatever that is in Toyota parlance. If not, that means not enough transmission and oil cooling, "standard" brakes, standard diff gearing, and standard everything else. You can add 'em on, but there's nothing quite like a truck built from the ground up to tow. You probably don't have enough money to make your Tundra into one with the equivalent of the "max tow package", so keep that in mind.

One of these days you're going to be descending a LOOOOONG, steep, winding downhill out of the mountains, and your brakes are gonna be smokin', and your butt's gonna be puckered 'cuz you don't quite have enough tow vehicle. Don't make that mistake. FIRST and foremost, learn to shift manually on climbs and descents...to baby the brakes. And you might upgrade your brakes. I put these on my Ram and I love them! These are SERIOUS brakes: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I installed them myself in about 2 hours working in the driveway.
There are other brands just as good. But I installed these in 2015, and I haven't even had to replace the pads. I live in the Rockies, and I routinely crest 11,500 foot mountain passes that look like this: https://the-journal.com/articles/189998 That's when you want to be damned sure you have enough TV for the rig you're pulling.

To make a point, I've been on Rt. 550 over Red Mountain Pass more than a few times. Why? Cuz that's where the good camping is. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...w=1514&bih=912 And yes, you're right. In CO, guardrails are for sissies.
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Old 02-24-2021, 07:43 PM   #18
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RET.LEO

In my post #11, I asked if the 1300# CCC you stated was from the driver's door sticker (Tread Act of 2000) or was that from the 2006 Tundra brochure? You hadn't replied. The number on the Tread Act sticker is the true payload of a truck (or car) based on how the vehicle is built. The more accessories/options on a vehicle the lower that number gets. Just trying to help make sure you use the correct numbers for your Tundra when considering remaining payload.
-Russ

Tread Act sticker
Hi Russ, it is listed on the jamb as 1309 lbs CCC. Thinking things trough I can easily cut my extra's ( LP, gas, drinking water) in half. The majority of my tools will fit inside and can be stored either under the bed or in storage over the trailers axles. I could also switch from 30lb LP's to 20 lb tanks.
I can easily travel with half of fresh water in the tank and fill up just before going on BLM land. I will also not have batteries on the tongue as I'm going lithium probably placed in the storage under the bed.
I know I will be able to stay under the trailer tow limit so braking is not a huge concern. Plus waaay early in life I drove semi's for over 20 years with 2 million safe miles, then off to the Sheriffs Academy with their driving training. I'm not over confidant with my driving ability (the biggest mistake a driver can make)
The 2nd possibility is going with a Winnebago Micro Minnie. Much less weight but equal if not better quality build.
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Old 02-24-2021, 09:24 PM   #19
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Hi Russ, it is listed on the jamb as 1309 lbs CCC. Thinking things trough I can easily cut my extra's ( LP, gas, drinking water) in half. The majority of my tools will fit inside and can be stored either under the bed or in storage over the trailers axles. I could also switch from 30lb LP's to 20 lb tanks.
I can easily travel with half of fresh water in the tank and fill up just before going on BLM land. I will also not have batteries on the tongue as I'm going lithium probably placed in the storage under the bed.
I know I will be able to stay under the trailer tow limit so braking is not a huge concern. Plus waaay early in life I drove semi's for over 20 years with 2 million safe miles, then off to the Sheriffs Academy with their driving training. I'm not over confidant with my driving ability (the biggest mistake a driver can make)
The 2nd possibility is going with a Winnebago Micro Minnie. Much less weight but equal if not better quality build.
Good luck with what every decision you make.
Be Safe.
-Russ
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Old 02-24-2021, 10:35 PM   #20
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You will be way over your payload with the Toyota. Toyotas are dependable trucks but their towing and payload capacities pale when compared to their competitors. We do love our 2205S. good luck with your decision.
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