Adventures at the CAT Scale

[tmhudg]

I've had my new Vibe 268RKS for a couple of months now and wanted to check the weights per all the suggestions here and make sure I was okay.

I have an F150 EcoSCREW with Max Tow and Equalizer 12K hitch.

I used the document in the Library for the process and I have some comments on that which I will get to.

It's somewhat intimidating venturing into the trucker world and I was a bit nervous about getting on the scale and holding up truckers while I fiddled with my hitch for the different weighings that I needed but it went "relatively" smoothly.

First, the document says you can do all the weighing you need without leaving the scales. My experience was different. I did my first weigh, disconnected my bars and hit the call button to ask for the second weigh. They asked me for the number from my first ticket - which I didn't have of course. They then told me I had to come in and pay for the first weighing before I could get a re-weigh. So, I had to hook back up so I could pull off and park. Luckily, there was no one waiting to use the scale. When I went in and paid, they let me pay for all three weighings at once. I paid $12.50 for the first weigh and $2.00 for each re-weigh. I went out and did my second weigh - you really notice how slow the tongue jack moves when you are trying to be fast when hooking and unhooking those bars - and then dropped the trailer for my third weigh. When I was done, I went in and got my three tickets.

I'm not sure how long the whole process took. I would guess about 40 minutes but I think I would be faster next time now that I know what to expect.

As for my results, I found that I'm good on everything but my rear axle capacity. I have not shifted enough back to the front axle and I'm over by 150 lbs. on the rear. I'm going to do the adjustment and re-measure the wheel well deltas to dial things in better. I'm not sure if I'll revisit the scale since I'm pretty close.

I'm also glad I got the 12K hitch with 1.2K bars. The "dry tongue weight" was something like 750 lbs. and, while I knew it would be more, I was thinking that the 10K hitch with 1K bars might be good enough. My actual tongue weight was 1160 so I'm glad I went higher. Even that is a little close for me so I'm also going to take some things out of the pass-through to try and drop that down a bit.

I have a couple of comments on the document that is in the Library.

On page 2, item 5. It says to get the actual loaded camper weight, subtract the combined weight from the second ticket, from the total truck weight from the third ticket. I'm pretty sure that is backwards else you are going to get a negative number - am I missing something?

Also on page 2, item 11 - tongue weight. I think the wording is slightly confusing. It says subtract the truck weight from the third ticket, from the *loaded truck weight in #5 (sum of both axles)*. Item 5 is calculating the loaded camper weight not the loaded truck weight. Yes, you use the loaded truck weight but that's not what item 5 is going for. I think it would be clearer to say "subtract the total truck weight from the third ticket, from the total truck weight (front and rear axles) from the second ticket".

To make these calculations easier, I created a spreadsheet but it looks like I can't attach it to this post. I'll see if I can post it in the Library [Edit: can't upload there either. If anyone wants this, let me know]. Note that I did this as a Google Sheet and exported it to Excel. I think it still works but double check for problems.

It has two "sheets" the first sheet is where you enter all your data - ticket values, weight ratings, etc. The second sheet has all the calculations and results. Let me know what you think if you use it. I'm thinking about making a web app - that would work on your phone - to do all this as well. Any interest in something like that?

Tom

[purduepete97]

Great post - lots of good info. Agree with the intimidation factor - would not have wanted to do it at a busy scale my first time.
The app idea is great!

Brian

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by tmhudg

I'm thinking about making a web app - that would work on your phone - to do all this as well. Any interest in something like that?

Tom

Originally Posted by purduepete97

The app idea is great!

Brian

I did a phone/mobile-friendly website:
Actual Weight Utilities - Towing Planner

[tmhudg]

Originally Posted by ependydad

I did a phone/mobile-friendly website:
Actual Weight Utilities - Towing Planner

Well crap, there goes my weekend project! Nice job. It looks almost exactly like what I was going to do.

In my spreadsheet, I also have TV and TT weight limits you can enter so you can see where you are against those values.

One thing, the link to the CAT scale instructions is broken.

I may still do my own app - just to give me a reason to play with JQuery Mobile.

Cheers!,

Tom

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by tmhudg

Well crap, there goes my weekend project! Nice job. It looks almost exactly like what I was going to do.

In my spreadsheet, I also have TV and TT weight limits you can enter so you can see where you are against those values.

One thing, the link to the CAT scale instructions is broken.

I may still do my own app - just to give me a reason to play with JQuery Mobile.

Thanks, Tom. I fixed the links- what is weird is that the HTML markup looked correct. As far as I can guess, the double quote at the end of the anchor tag was a "smart quote". Not sure how that happened, delete + retyping " fixed it.

I like the idea of adding the tow vehicle limits and it's honestly something that I've wanted to add. The problem there is that I've been trying to keep it as simple as possible. As I got started with weighing, I would easily get overwhelmed with the number of entry fields on most of the forms out there. I've been trying to balance the simplicity of tools against the complexity of knowing if you're within ratings or not.

---

As for JQuery Mobile- honestly, I know a lot of people use it but IMO it's not my preference. I don't like using JQuery Mobile from a full-screen/laptop experience. I like using a responsive framework like Twitter's Bootstrap (as you can see). For utilities, it's "good enough" with very minor tweaks.

I haven't done anything first-hand with Cordova/Phonegap for turning these into actual apps. I'd love to make these Towing Planner tools into real-live apps.

[tmhudg]

[CAT Scale guys, pardon us while we geek-out...]
Yeah, I was concerned that JQuery mobile wouldn't look good on a desktop. Mainly just wanted a goal to make myself take a look at it. Agree Responsive/Bootstrap is more "all-around".

As for Phonegap and "real" apps - meh. I released two apps to the iPhone App Store. It was a fun experience but I couldn't make money on it. It's $100/year to stay in the store and it's hard to break even. Nobody wants to pay - even 99 cents - for an app.

[lbrjet]

Post your three weightings data. Hard to believe your TW is 1160. Are you sure you are not counting as TW the weight removed from the front axle?


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[tmhudg]

Here are the numbers. Maybe I didn't do something right.

Ticket 1 - Full rig with WDH engaged
Front Axle 3280
Rear Axle 4200
Trailer 6180
Total weight 13660

Ticket 2 - Full rig with WDH disengaged
Front Axle 3000
Rear Axle 4580
Trailer 6060
Total weight 13640

Ticket 3 - Truck only
Front Axle 3480
Rear Axle 2940
Total weight 6420

[prof_fate]

Something's not adding up for me...is it me or what?

Truck- 6420 on ticket 3, trailer 6060 on ticket 2- together that's 12,480 but in ticket 1 and 2 you got a total of 13,660 (or 13,640) -a difference of 1180 lbs! Where did that weight go? Is that the tounge weight, so trailer really weighs ~7200 lbs?

What is the GVWR of the truck? I think I recall reading it's 7200 or 7400 lbs? In ticket 1 the truck is 7480 - I assume it's just you at the scale, not the whole family? So this weight will go up several hundred pounds?

[tmhudg]

I don't think you can look at the truck weight in ticket 3 and the trailer weight in ticket 2 and say why don't they add up to the total. The truck weighs much more in ticket 2 than in 3.

The truck in ticket 2 is 7580, not 6420. Isn't the difference between those, the tongue weight (1160)?

Yes, the trailer calculates to 7220

The GVWR of the truck is 7650 per the sticker. I was at the scale with my wife with what I expect to bring on normal trips.

[prof_fate]

ok that makes more sense. in ticket 2 the trailer weight isn't really the weight of the trailer then.

when I did this I did the whole setup then just the truck, skipping your ticket 2.

The purpose of ticket 2 is just to get the transfer of weight to the front axle?

[tmhudg]

Right. As I understand it, the WDH transfers some of the weight to the front axle and also a little bit of weight to the TT axle(s). So, you can only get a true weight of the TT with the WDH disconnected.

[lbrjet]

Tm, your calculations are all correct. 16% tongue weight is not unheard of, but is pretty rare. If you can restore some of that 200 lbs back to the front axle that will also move a bit more to the trailer, and bring your rear axle back under ratings. But you already know this. Thanks for posting the numbers.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[lbrjet]

The purpose of ticket 2 is to calculate the tongue weight. Simply the difference in truck weights in 2 and 3.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by tmhudg

[CAT Scale guys, pardon us while we geek-out...]
Yeah, I was concerned that JQuery mobile wouldn't look good on a desktop. Mainly just wanted a goal to make myself take a look at it. Agree Responsive/Bootstrap is more "all-around".

As for Phonegap and "real" apps - meh. I released two apps to the iPhone App Store. It was a fun experience but I couldn't make money on it. It's $100/year to stay in the store and it's hard to break even. Nobody wants to pay - even 99 cents - for an app.

More geeking out...

I found JQuery Mobile clunky- but responsive is clunky to get a feel for at first. Maybe I just didn't give it long enough. We prototyped an app for a customer, but it didn't go anywhere.

As for the apps and the app store; I think you're right that it is hard to get someone to buy in. For websites, I've generally done OK with advertising money- I'm curious how they do with apps.

[vinmaker]

This is some pretty serious math.

[hbillsmith]

The 20# difference in Total Ticket Weight between #1 and #2 is either simply the tires/axles placement on the scale pads were not exact on the different pull throughs OR it's simply an acceptable margin of error in the scales themselves. I often see 10# to 20# different totals when I do multiple pull arounds.

[ottawapaul]

Can't believe they let you un hitch while on the scales. Normally you do one reading, then get off the scales, get your ticket, then if you want a reweigh you go back on - which you can redo as much as you want. Consider yourself lucky 😃

[tmhudg]

Originally Posted by ottawapaul

Can't believe they let you un hitch while on the scales. Normally you do one reading, then get off the scales, get your ticket, then if you want a reweigh you go back on - which you can redo as much as you want. Consider yourself lucky 😃

To be clear I didn't unhitch. I unhooked the WDH bars, got the re-weigh, rehooked up the bars and pulled off.

The document in the library that I was using as a guide implies you can get the first two readings without moving from the scale but as you state and I found out, you have to take the first reading and get off and pay for your first ticket. Then you can go back for a re-weigh.

For my second weigh, I pulled on and got out and disengaged the bars but left the TT hitched. After they took the reading, I reengaged the bars and pulled off to drop the trailer in order to get the final, truck-only, re-weigh.