Air Bags Vs Shocks

[Tall frog]

I have air bags on my 2500hd GMC just to keep it level and the headlights pointed the way they should. No loss of suspension travel and they have joice bumpers inside so no way you will bottom out and damage the bags. I run ours at 5 lb when unloaded and 60 lb when towing the 5th wheel, a 36ck2. The ride actually got bettet when unloaded and great when towing. With 73,000 miles on our 18' might be time to replace shocks.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by Tall frog

I have air bags on my 2500hd GMC just to keep it level and the headlights pointed the way they should. No loss of suspension travel and they have joice bumpers inside so no way you will bottom out and damage the bags. I run ours at 5 lb when unloaded and 60 lb when towing the 5th wheel, a 36ck2. The ride actually got bettet when unloaded and great when towing. With 73,000 miles on our 18' might be time to replace shocks.

For 5th wheel I agree that airbags are great, but the OP has a bumper pull, where airbags are not the correct method. Sumo springs or Timbrens are better suited in his particular application. Air bags work best for loads directly on top of the axle, but can counter act weights leveraged off the back end.

Sumo or Timbren are fixed ratio bumpers that provide stabilization based on how much weight being applied and are consistent load to load so once the WDH is properly setup, it will remain the same for each and every hookup and provide the exact same support every time. Airbags OTOH can be off 2 PSI and completely mess up the weight distribution, or worse the sway control. The Sumo/timbrens also help maintain level ride height. I have them on my F150 and highly recommend them.

On my F350 though I am planning airbags since I tow a 5th wheel and even with Roadmasters installed I have too much sag. It is either that or replace the leaf springs.

[U.S.ArmyVeteran]

Originally Posted by Tall frog

I have air bags on my 2500hd GMC just to keep it level and the headlights pointed the way they should. No loss of suspension travel and they have joice bumpers inside so no way you will bottom out and damage the bags. I run ours at 5 lb when unloaded and 60 lb when towing the 5th wheel, a 36ck2. The ride actually got bettet when unloaded and great when towing. With 73,000 miles on our 18' might be time to replace shocks.

I think the difference is you are towing a 5er. So all bets are off. Different animal than a travel trailer. But good information. Thanks.

[U.S.ArmyVeteran]

After reading all the replies and more research.

Here is what I think is the definitive answer to Air Bags Or Shocks.

Air Bags are counter productive on a Tow Behind Trailer with a Weight Distribution Hitch.

Your mileage may vary!

https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by U.S.ArmyVeteran

After reading all the replies and more research.

Here is what I think is the definitive answer to Air Bags Or Shocks.

Air Bags are counter productive on a Tow Behind Trailer with a Weight Distribution Hitch.

Your mileage may vary!

https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

I watched that video a few years back, they could have gone just a bit more with explaining the leverage points, but might have been too technical for most, but I think they pretty much nailed it.

Best way to describe though, Great for in bed loads, not great for behind bed loads.

[The Evil Twin]

You'll be happier all around with new shocks. I replaced the units on my Super Duty at 50k and one rear had lost its charge already. No clue when that happened. Dropping in new Fox shocks made a world of difference.
Now, I also added air bags prior to that. Those did not change my ride at all. But did help in numerous ways.

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by U.S.ArmyVeteran

I think the difference is you are towing a 5er. So all bets are off. Different animal than a travel trailer. But good information. Thanks.

Not that different except that where the weight is centered. Load weight is load weight.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

Not that different except that where the weight is centered. Load weight is load weight.

Incorrect. Huge difference between bed load and tail load. Bed loads do not raise or take away front axle weight where tail loads do take away front axle weight. THIS is what people need to understand about air bags vs other suspension enhancements like RAS of Sumo Springs.

Leverage. Tail loads leverage the suspension, Bed loads do not. Airbags change the leverage points of the rear suspension directly affecting a WDH. Any change in air pressure changes the WDH configuration. All the other suspension enhancements are set it and forget it, one and done.

[NJBreeze]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

Bilstein 5100s

Here is what the airbags do for your ride. The load you are carrying on your rear suspension is compressing that suspension leaving less room for it to travel and stiffening your ride. The air Bags give your suspension as much travel loaded as when you are unloaded.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe you just mis-typed it. The airbags are limiting your suspension travel.

Most of the time we don't have enough shock. Take a brand new shock out of any Ford, GM or Dodge then compress it. Now try that with a Bilstein. The stock shocks are essentially not working so your hitting bump stops. The airbags are curing the garbage shocks.

Again for me airbags are a non-starter. Had them leak, they had to run with air in them increasing the unloaded ride height and no way I'm putting some compressor back there while it is having road salt thrown at it all winter.

[The Evil Twin]

Originally Posted by NJBreeze

This doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe you just mis-typed it. The airbags are limiting your suspension travel.

Most of the time we don't have enough shock. Take a brand new shock out of any Ford, GM or Dodge then compress it. Now try that with a Bilstein. The stock shocks are essentially not working so your hitting bump stops. The airbags are curing the garbage shocks.

Again for me airbags are a non-starter. Had them leak, they had to run with air in them increasing the unloaded ride height and no way I'm putting some compressor back there while it is having road salt thrown at it all winter.

He is correct. When I air up my bags, it increases my rear ride height by 1.5 ". That is precisely why I wanted them. It keeps the truck level, the trailers level and increases the distance between the springs and bump stop.
I don't know what brand you had or who installed them but mine have been leak free for several years. I run with 5 psi unloaded and it doesn't change the ride height. The compressor is mounted next to the fuel tank behind a factory plate. It stays clean and dry as evidenced by the lack of dirt on the shield. The air intake I ran up to the filler neck.

[U.S.ArmyVeteran]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Best way to describe though, Great for in bed loads, not great for behind bed loads.

Good quote on Air Bags. I like it.

[U.S.ArmyVeteran]

Originally Posted by The Evil Twin

He is correct. When I air up my bags, it increases my rear ride height by 1.5 ". That is precisely why I wanted them. It keeps the truck level, the trailers level and increases the distance between the springs and bump stop.
I don't know what brand you had or who installed them but mine have been leak free for several years. I run with 5 psi unloaded and it doesn't change the ride height. The compressor is mounted next to the fuel tank behind a factory plate. It stays clean and dry as evidenced by the lack of dirt on the shield. The air intake I ran up to the filler neck.

Are you Towing a 5er or "bumper" pull? ( I know bumper pull is not correct )

[sdelam]

My 2 cents, I have a storage lot less than 1/4 mile from the house. It has a steep entry/exit incline and I would drag the WDH if I didn't have the bars installed. (a bit of a pain for the short trip). So instead of finding a shorter hitch/cut mine off, I did the most expensive thing and installed air bags and a compressor. Now if I am just heading to the house i hit a switch and level the truck to get in and out of storage.

Now all that said, I have played with different amounts of air in the bags (min is 5 psi) while towing and found that any more than 10-15 PSI in the bag and the trailer feels like it is on a trampoline. May be able to do better taking it to the scales and re adjusting the WDH for each air setting, but honestly that's a lot of work and not really what i bought the set up for anyway.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by U.S.ArmyVeteran

Are you Towing a 5er or "bumper" pull? ( I know bumper pull is not correct )

Conventional towing is what it is referred to now for bumper pull.

[Highwayguy]

You have an half ton like I did here is my Experience!
I had a small 22ft fiver and the handling was not great so I installed air bags. What a difference with the fiver. Ride was better with the trailer on.
No trailer the ride was terrible as 5 psi required as a minimum to prevent damage to the empty bags.
What I did is this.
I gave the bags away!

[U.S.ArmyVeteran]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Conventional towing is what it is referred to now for bumper pull.

Thanks, never heard that before.

[upflying]

I have Kelderman rear air springs on my Ram. I raise or lower the truck as needed.
https://kelderman.com/shop/2014-ram-...t-stock-height

[Rolland]

Originally Posted by Highwayguy

You have an half ton like I did here is my Experience!
I had a small 22ft fiver and the handling was not great so I installed air bags. What a difference with the fiver. Ride was better with the trailer on.
No trailer the ride was terrible as 5 psi required as a minimum to prevent damage to the empty bags.
What I did is this.
I gave the bags away!

This is exactly the same as I had with no load and 5 psi recommended by the air bag manufacture.

The next truck I had had Timbrens the previous owner. It was a 1 ton and I was pulling a fifth wheel with about 2300# pin weight. I was amazed how well they kept the truck level, the trailer was level and when empty it rode as good as factory. I was sold and would not go back to airbags when towing a travel trailer or fifth wheel. May put a pair on our Yukon.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by Rolland

This is exactly the same as I had with no load and 5 psi recommended by the air bag manufacture.

The next truck I had had Timbrens the previous owner. It was a 1 ton and I was pulling a fifth wheel with about 2300# pin weight. I was amazed how well they kept the truck level, the trailer was level and when empty it rode as good as factory. I was sold and would not go back to airbags when towing a travel trailer or fifth wheel. May put a pair on our Yukon.

Timbrens, or Sumo, both work the same and install the same. I have Sumo on my F-150 and handling with a trailer is far better than without them. Only suggestion about them is don't install the spacer unless you have a lift installed or they will touch the axle and you will feel every crack in the road.

I installed RAS on my F350, which replace the overload spring, which on mine was hitting the stops on every bump. I have them cranked to the max and they helped quite a bit, but the spring packs are in need of being replaced, the tension has left the building, truck sat level before the RAS. I am considering a pair of Sumo for that now too. Cheaper than replacing the spring packs and a lot less work than even air bags.

[Rolland]

I’ve heard Sumos are just about the same and good results with them. Getting I’m introduction to that type of device was provided for me since they cam in the truck. The previous owner had installed the set which only had about 1/8” clearance, it rose like a buckboard pulling a load empty. After researching I learned about the 1-1.5” clearance needed to tool pictures and email to Timbren to see what could be done. I was clear I didn’t purchase them and had bought the truck with them. When talking in the phone later they told me they weren’t the correct ones for my truck and would send the correct ones out free of charge. I again said I hadn’t bought them, the guy from Timbren said “it doesn’t matter, you are a user of our product and therefore put customer that we need to take care of. I’m still amazed with it and when I got the correct ones installed was also amazed at the improved rise when empty.

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Timbrens, or Sumo, both work the same and install the same. I have Sumo on my F-150 and handling with a trailer is far better than without them. Only suggestion about them is don't install the spacer unless you have a lift installed or they will touch the axle and you will feel every crack in the road.

I installed RAS on my F350, which replace the overload spring, which on mine was hitting the stops on every bump. I have them cranked to the max and they helped quite a bit, but the spring packs are in need of being replaced, the tension has left the building, truck sat level before the RAS. I am considering a pair of Sumo for that now too. Cheaper than replacing the spring packs and a lot less work than even air bags.