Am I being unreasonable?

[Northernwannabe]

Here's the deal with purchasing vehicles. The MSRP is simply the value that a dealer can sell the vehicle for. If they were at $47500.00, then they call applied all manufacturer discounts, senior discounts and incentives from dealership. It does not matter if the vehicle is 2 model years old or not. This does not mean they can sell the vehicle for another 5000.00 off. The mileage is what it is. A dealer can have up to 250 km on a new vehicle upon delivery. If they sold that vehicle for what you offered, they would be selling it below cost and that's not a way to run a business. And don't think you can go to another dealer and have them dealer trade it; that's not happening because the dealer will not do that because they know there aren't many, if anymore out there.they probably have about 900.00 left in profit. They have to pay the detailed to clean it for delivery, psi it to ensure it is good to go and all accessories are on, and omg the poor sales rep will only make a folate fee of 150.00, yes that's all he or she will get. How do I know all this, I sold cars and trucks for a living. Good luck in your search.

[HangDiver]

Congratulations. I do a lot of car/truck trading (I love doing this). Even though the dealer wouldn't come off their price, they wanted that truck gone and priced it that way. You got a very good truck at a very good price. Congratulations on your new wheels.

Now we need photos!

[walaby]

Originally Posted by Northernwannabe

Good luck in your search.

Guess you missed my update?!?! Search is over, Im closing the deal. Just waiting for the purchase order so I can get it to the bank, and have them cut me the check. Will pick it up this weekend.


I do think I got a good deal, and it was pretty obvious during negotiations that they weren't going any lower. The better than expected price for my truck made the difference in my mind.



Mike

[007matman]

Congratulations! Post up some pics!

[walaby]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Congratulations! Post up some pics!

Will do so after the weekend.


Mike

[Chuck_S]

Everyone else thinks the price is too high too or the truck would have sold long ago.

-- Chuck

[Chunkychuck]

I just bought a 2018 3500 with the same options you got except you got the aisen tranny and I didn’t. My MSRP was around 62000. After a employer national discount and all available incentives I still wasn’t at 47000. So I think you got a good deal.

[wabakami]

Realizing you have bought the truck, this may be of some help to others. Here are a few things my brother-in-law has told me over the years; he is the new car sales manager at a Ford dealership.

This is sales in Canada so may not all apply to the US.

There are two sales target dates which manufacturers and dealers live by;
Model year sales (current year models, ex. 2017, 2018) which end when the new years models arrive on the showroom floor.
Calendar year sales (Jan 01 to Dec 31)

Both of these targets are important to the manufacturers, especially Ford, for their "Best selling vehicle in the world" bragging rites [F150])

Notes
Most consumer incentives end when the new models come out.

A new vehicle will have all manufacturer to dealer cash incentives (usually unknown by us consumers) end December 31st of the following model year; ex. for your 2017 they will end Dec 31, 2018 putting pressure on the manager to move the iron within the next 9 weeks.

Sometimes (very rarely) the manufacturers will offer dealer cash after Jan 01 to move poor sellers.

After Jan 01, new models will usually be cheaper than a two year old "new" vehicle due to dealer and buyer cash.

Warranties are what was current on that model year, a 2017 will not have the 2018 or 2019 warranty.

Used vehicle mark-up can be up to 400% what a new vehicle profit margin is. This is where most "New" dealers make their real money - used sales.

End of month and end of model and calendar year totals are very very important to the local dealership (always close your deal at the end of the month). New vehicle dealers are expected to reach certain new vehicle targets by the manufacturers.

The best deals are made without a trade-in, unless it is a really exceptional one.

No deal is ever a "cash" deal unless you have your cash under your bed; you're usually pulling your so called cash out of your savings, or against your house or similar. Most dealers can show you smart financing which will save you money in the long run.

Be careful with leasing, only lease with a closed-end lease and full disclosure; dealers can make a killing on non-manufacturer third-party leases. Open-ended leases can leave you so far up-side down at it's end you could be paying it off for years after the vehicle has rusted away.

If it's used then that truck is unique, there will be non others like it, but if it's new and you can't get your price then there will be many others like it at other dealers. The dealer knows that so walk away sometimes and see if they call you back.

If the dealer shows you the invoice, look for the holdback column, this is usually blanked out on any invoice the average salesman or customer sees (assuming a "Dealer Invoice Sale"). There are usually three columns on the actual dealer invoice showing base costs and options, starting at the right side; MSRP, Cost (middle column), then Cost less holdback (left column). Holdback is pure dealer profit and can range upwards to 5%. Some of the imports do not do holdback but have other hidden profits.

Lastly, you got a good deal, don't let anyone spoil it for you!


I'm gone, fingers are tired!

Geoff
.

[Vicm]

Originally Posted by walaby

So, kinda stumbled across a dealership, about 4 hours away from me, that actually has a 2017 Ram 3500, Bighorn edition, CTD, AIsin transmission, tow package etc...


They had it listed for $49,500. It is brand new, never been titled, which I found somewhat odd, but I guess there's a few around.


Anyways, I have a 2014 2500 , and I have been contemplating getting a 3500 in anticipation of eventually getting a 5er. Figure I have plenty of time to wait for a good deal. This, I thought, I could work a good deal, since it is already 2 model years old.


Most they would come off the truck is 2K. $47,500 plus TTL is best they would do. I think that's too high, even if it is new. I would think they'd want to get rid of it, or at least be willing to deal, but apparently not.


Maybe Im being unreasonable?


Mike

Ask to see the dealer invoice, then work a deal from that not from the MSRP.

[HangDiver]

Originally Posted by Vicm

Ask to see the dealer invoice, then work a deal from that not from the MSRP.

You're late to the party.

[chaps2018]

Re: SRW for 5er. Strongly encourage you to understand the pin weight limitation of a SRW. Unfortunately the SRW config will significantly limit the size of 5er u can tow despite the AISIN trans.
I suspect that is the reason it is still on the lot—ie no one would pay for the aisin when the SRW cuts it off at the knees.

I was amazed my pin weight is near 3k on my 40’ 14k lb gvwr 5er (12k at the scale).

You can get actual weight specs here. https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

[spock123]

Originally Posted by walaby

So, kinda stumbled across a dealership, about 4 hours away from me, that actually has a 2017 Ram 3500, Bighorn edition, CTD, AIsin transmission, tow package etc...


They had it listed for $49,500. It is brand new, never been titled, which I found somewhat odd, but I guess there's a few around.


Anyways, I have a 2014 2500 , and I have been contemplating getting a 3500 in anticipation of eventually getting a 5er. Figure I have plenty of time to wait for a good deal. This, I thought, I could work a good deal, since it is already 2 model years old.


Most they would come off the truck is 2K. $47,500 plus TTL is best they would do. I think that's too high, even if it is new. I would think they'd want to get rid of it, or at least be willing to deal, but apparently not.


Maybe Im being unreasonable?


Mike

Mine if I ask where the dealer is and his phone number. I need a new truck and that sounds like a good deal to me

[PenJoe]

Originally Posted by walaby

I could probably save a bit on tax with a trade, but the truck is in SC and Im in GA. I don't want to drive all the way there (4 hours), and spend however much time negotiating, and drive home another 4 if it doesn't work out.


So, got a more than fair price for my truck to have it bought outright, and take that out of the equation.


Mike

Just a thought and this is something we have done on two different deals and multiple different dealerships. Working through local reputable dealers, we gave them our criteria. They each did an Internet search and then gave us a price. We then negotiated price locally. It was determined that each of the dealers was trying to work a deal on virtually the same truck. On one, we worked a deal on a truck in Michigan and it was delivered to the dealer in Minnesota-and it was a great deal. The other ended up being the dealer that had it on their lot. But, that dealer knew we were shopping other dealers on this particular vehicle. We got several things thrown in on the deal.

The point is, all dealers are able to deal on vehicles from any other dealers inventory. With that knowledge, a dealer can not hold a customer hostage on price. It was interesting thought. One of the "reputable dealers" was holding back on factory rebates. The sales person told us to come back before making a deal somewhere else and they would beat the price. My question to them was why. If they are withholding rebates for their own gain, they are not reputable. We drove the extra 35 miles to deal on principle.

[17 Oaks]

Originally Posted by walaby

So, kinda stumbled across a dealership, about 4 hours away from me, that actually has a 2017 Ram 3500, Bighorn edition, CTD, AIsin transmission, tow package etc...


They had it listed for $49,500. It is brand new, never been titled, which I found somewhat odd, but I guess there's a few around.


Anyways, I have a 2014 2500 , and I have been contemplating getting a 3500 in anticipation of eventually getting a 5er. Figure I have plenty of time to wait for a good deal. This, I thought, I could work a good deal, since it is already 2 model years old.


Most they would come off the truck is 2K. $47,500 plus TTL is best they would do. I think that's too high, even if it is new. I would think they'd want to get rid of it, or at least be willing to deal, but apparently not.


Maybe Im being unreasonable?


Mike

If you have not done so, ask the dealer for the Window sticker, its easy to get, in fact you can go on line and download it using the VIN number for less than $10 bucks. But if the dealer will not give it to you I would not do business there.

FYI In the world of Ford Superduty trucks, about the very best you can do off of window sticker would be right at 10%. Since you are buying an untitled '17 with no miles on it (got to wonder why) then I would take average price of '17 for sale and give that one a bit more due to it being new. Does it ALSO come with a new warranty???

Here are several 17's for sale and the price really varies...

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...sModified=true

[NJKris]

you got the aisen tranny

ChunkyChuck, I'm still laughing about this. Sorry, I know not very relevant. I didn't know that came as an option!

[mrfikser]

the truck is a '17 the '19s are out now...I hope the oil was changed twice in that time...oil changes are not only mileage but time determined, with oil changes required every year no matter the mileage...the truck sitting on the lot develops condensation in the motor which rusts the 'new' parts....also the battery and tires are now 2 years old... I would have at least had them throw in a new battery (or 2 if it has 2)…oops, never mind I see you already bought it...

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by mrfikser

the truck is a '17 the '19s are out now...I hope the oil was changed twice in that time...oil changes are not only mileage but time determined, with oil changes required every year no matter the mileage...the truck sitting on the lot develops condensation in the motor which rusts the 'new' parts....also the battery and tires are now 2 years old... I would have at least had them throw in a new battery (or 2 if it has 2)…oops, never mind I see you already bought it...

These are the types of things I was thinking about. Also, DEF has a really short shelf life, especially if exposed to extreme temps. What's that 2+ year old DEF gonna do the the SCR system when it's fired up? And the diesel sitting in the tank is now old as well. If a biodiesel blend, which most is, I can't imagine it's still good. I bought a 15 F250 that had been on the lot for only 6 months and had a significant SCR failure (DEF pump, cooler, heater, tank, etc. all replaced at ~18K) and I wondered if that had something to do with it.

[mrfikser]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

These are the types of things I was thinking about. Also, DEF has a really short shelf life, especially if exposed to extreme temps. What's that 2+ year old DEF gonna do the the SCR system when it's fired up? And the diesel sitting in the tank is now old as well. If a biodiesel blend, which most is, I can't imagine it's still good. I bought a 15 F250 that had been on the lot for only 6 months and had a significant SCR failure (DEF pump, cooler, heater, tank, etc. all replaced at ~18K) and I wondered if that had something to do with it.

Also the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years if it is dot5.... now we are just scaring the guy who just bought a new truck...

[Semperfi24]

Dont mean to hijack the thread, but I find the way that dealers operate in comparison to other dealers to be fascinating. The current truck we own (18, F150, Lariat, SCrew, Special Edition) was very difficult to find because of some specific desires. We ended up ordering the truck, but it is funny how one dealer operated.

We specifically wanted silver and a 6 ft bed. There were a bunch of 5 ft beds, but we had that, and wanted the extra foot. There was one dealership on the east coast that had the truck. We verified that by having 2 other dealers search for the truck we wanted. The dealer that did have the truck, the owner wanted to drive the truck. He actually had it in his possession an hour away from the lot and was unwilling to bring it to the lot for us to look at unless we went on mon afternoon. The dealer was more than 2 hours away, so we were only going to go on sat or sun. He wanted to drive the truck, I assume as a demo, more than he wanted to sell it. They wanted us to pay more than MSRP to make the deal. So, if we were willing to over spend, it was worth it to him to make the deal, otherwise we can pound sand. We werent willing to do that, we arent crazy. So they offered to order us one, with all the same options, etc. We got them to send us the order sheet, with their sale price.

We then took the order sheet and got 2 other dealers to give us a sale price on that truck if they ordered it. One of the dealers was the same price as the the guy who wouldnt sell the one he had, and the other dealer was about $5k less (which was convenient cuz it is our "local" dealer about 6 miles away). The dealer that wanted MSRP+ on the truck had turned us off so much that even if they were the lowest we werent going to buy from them.

We already knew we wanted the truck, already had financing lined up, it was as simple as finding a dealer with it, and making the deal. First and only time in my life I had the cash in hand, figuratively, and a dealer decided he didnt want to sell me a truck. The best part, I check that dealer's online inventory every few months. It was 14 months ago that he turned us away by wanting more than MSRP, and it is still in their inventory, with a price tag $14k less than we were willing to pay. Mind blowing stuff. And in the end, while we were at the dealership ordering the truck, we got to looking around, and ended up buying a brand new focus too. So that dealer lost a truck sale, probably lost a car sale, and now is going to lose $14k when he does sell the truck.

[PenJoe]

Originally Posted by NJKris

ChunkyChuck, I'm still laughing about this. Sorry, I know not very relevant. I didn't know that came as an option!

REF: RAM heavy duty trucks."The Aisin Automatic Transmission is the toughest option available. Are you interested in pushing your Cummins Diesel to the limits? If so, the Aisin transmission is for you. This is a six-speed transmission specifically designed to handle higher engine output."

Now you know. Not being a RAM person, we both learned something today.