Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2017, 09:46 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
thebrakeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
Right. From what I understand from any OEM with trailer sway control...that is for when things get REALLY out of control. It will not intervene until you are all over the place. It will not be a pleasant experience, but it will straighten things out for you.

You want your own sway control system, preferably built into your WDH kit, to either handle small amounts of sway (Equalizer, Dual-Cam, Blue Ox, etc), or prevent sway before it starts (Hensley, ProPride, etc).

As far as the original post, the 23IKSS is only about 4800 lbs dry, and 6400 lbs GVWR. in reality, loaded weight is probably around 5800 lbs. Any Expedition with the HD towing package (9000 MAX towing) should have no problem with that weight, assuming they stay in-range with payload.

Note also that the max towing on Expy is 9000, regardless of axle ratio, and regardless of standard or EL/MAX length. Therefore, if you expect to be pushing the envelope on trailer weight, you are better served with the lighter standard length. It will have less steel frame weight, giving more of the 15,000 lbs GCVWR for towing duty. And you will end up with more payload capacity for the same reason, which means more flexibility in cargo and TW capacity.
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
thebrakeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 09:48 AM   #22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrakeman View Post
Right. From what I understand from any OEM with trailer sway control...that is for when things get REALLY out of control. It will not intervene until you are all over the place. It will not be a pleasant experience, but it will straighten things out for you.

You want your own sway control system, preferably built into your WDH kit, to either handle small amounts of sway (Equalizer, Dual-Cam, Blue Ox, etc), or prevent sway before it starts (Hensley, ProPride, etc).

As far as the original post, the 23IKSS is only about 4800 lbs dry, and 6400 lbs GVWR. in reality, loaded weight is probably around 5800 lbs. Any Expedition with the HD towing package (9000 MAX towing) should have no problem with that weight, assuming they stay in-range with payload.

Note also that the max towing on Expy is 9000, regardless of axle ratio, and regardless of standard or EL/MAX length. Therefore, if you expect to be pushing the envelope on trailer weight, you are better served with the lighter standard length. It will have less steel frame weight, giving more of the 15,000 lbs GCVWR for towing duty. And you will end up with more payload capacity for the same reason, which means more flexibility in cargo and TW capacity.
Correct. I had sway control kick in once and I was like "WTF is going on!" LOL It starts doing all sorts of funky things breaking and etc...
__________________
2015 F-150 Platinum with Eco Boost Engine
2017 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8321SS
Lots of Fun with the Family!!
wifi_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 01:49 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
thebrakeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifi_guy View Post
Correct. I had sway control kick in once and I was like "WTF is going on!" LOL It starts doing all sorts of funky things breaking and etc...
Curious:
What WDH/Sway control are you using? What caused sway so bad that the electronic nanny kicked in?
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
thebrakeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 04:10 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrakeman View Post
Curious:
What WDH/Sway control are you using? What caused sway so bad that the electronic nanny kicked in?
When my sway control kicked in on my truck, I was pulling our old camper. It was a 2005 Wildwood. I don't remember what my hitch was for that. We bought it used. It was some hitch with chains. It never was the best.

Today, I run a Husky Center Line and love it. We have been hauling and had some cross winds. Barely could tell. It's a great system.
__________________
2015 F-150 Platinum with Eco Boost Engine
2017 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8321SS
Lots of Fun with the Family!!
wifi_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 04:40 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 130
I have the Husky TS and I like it alot.... I see an expedition on My near future as my TV
Camping-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 04:42 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camping-man View Post
We don't carrie much in the vehicle when we camp, we keep most of the things in the camper with the exception of food.

We are no were near the 1500 lbs pay load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGKirkham View Post
Just because you put it in the camper doesn't mean it won't count towards payload. The weight you put on the hitch is payload.
I agree with BGK.

Per the Rockwood website, the 23IKSS has a GVWR of 6588 lbs. Assume 12% is tongue weight and you have 790 lbs. Add 75-100 lbs for a WDH and you could be up to 890 lbs. Assuming 2 adults and 3 kids, that could be around (2x150) + (3x50) = 450 lbs or more depending on the kids ages and the adults “build.” So now we’re at 890 + 450 = 1340 lbs. You ARE pushing 1500 lb payload.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 10:08 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
thebrakeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
Using 1340 of 1500 lbs payload is fine. Not a problem.


Also, this sounds like an existing camper, so I'll stick with the used weights I found in my previous post (dry ~4800, and GVWR ~6400), although it sounds like newer models have put on some fat.


With these hybrids, they often give much more CCC than you could ever use. These are not 5ers with big sheds under the front beds. 4800 dry means 5800 lbs conservatively when loaded, probably less. They will not be anywhere close to 6400 (or 6588).


Putting 5800 back into the calculations above, puts things using around 1250 of 1500. That much better. Not a problem. And if you did the calculations by subtracting weights from the 15,000 lbs GCVWR, I suspect the actual payload of the particular SUV would be greater than 1500 lbs, unless they get the biggest, blinged-out EL/MAX Platinum version available.
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
thebrakeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 10:54 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 130
As I stated before I know in good with the payload. I looking for more towing power.

Thanks for all the input.
Camping-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 10:23 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: TX
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stovebolt View Post
My problem with the 6.2 is the fact you have to use premium fuel. The Eco's you use regular and the manual says you should use premium when towing. I have an eco and I have towed with it using regular and premium and notice no difference. Why spend all that money on premium gas when you don't have to.
Premium is recommended, not required, for the 6.2. I put regular in it when not towing and premium when I was.
mxdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 11:32 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camping-man View Post
The 6.0 is a work horse, very reliable, the 6.2L is very nice but more of a performance engine vs a tow/work vehicle. The 6.2l will do the job but the maintenance cost with it and mpg and add to the already more expensive vehicle. Don't get me wrong I like the Yukon Denali alot, buy I rather have the expedition torque. The new 2018 expedition is rated close to 500lbs of torque....
I'm telling you, you are comparing a 2011 to a 2018. Go drive a brand new 6.2 with the 8 speed and you will see it out powers the all but the Raptor 3.5 ecoboost which is tuned as you say as a performance motor not a towing working motor. The new expedition will be good power wise but not as good. You may still like the Expediton more but I was just pointing out, if you are shopping new don't just ignore the others.
Hersbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 11:36 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 130
Thanks for the input but i rather have the expedition... the mpg while not towing should be better than the 6.2L
Camping-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 05:44 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxdad View Post
Premium is recommended, not required, for the 6.2. I put regular in it when not towing and premium when I was.
Not according to Motor Trend Magazine and Car and Driver Magazine, they claim the Chevy/GMC 6.2 is premium only when they tested them. their information was right out of the GM manual. Even the 6.4 Hemi is mid range and premium when towing, fords 6.2 is regular all the time. I believe the GM 6.0 is also regular all the time. You can't get the 6.2 in the 3/4 or 1 ton GM trucks and I assume there is a reason for that. Just say'in...not picking on any of them.
Stovebolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 06:47 AM   #33
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
I'm telling you, you are comparing a 2011 to a 2018. Go drive a brand new 6.2 with the 8 speed and you will see it out powers the all but the Raptor 3.5 ecoboost which is tuned as you say as a performance motor not a towing working motor. The new expedition will be good power wise but not as good. You may still like the Expediton more but I was just pointing out, if you are shopping new don't just ignore the others.


Our 2017 Yukon Denali is a beast. Plenty of power.
wormdood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 06:23 AM   #34
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1
I tow a 32ft TT, 7,200 pounds fully loaded with a 2015 Expedition EL XLT with max tow package, and I use a Husky Centerline TS WDH. I live in Colorado and the Ecoboost is amazing, the 420 lb-ft of torque at just 2500 RPM means this thing is a towing monster. I do not have to slow down even on the steepest grades and the RPM is rarely above 2500. I run 87 octane fuel and get 10-11 MPG flat but only 7 to 8 running in the hills and the millage pulling up a 11,000 foot pass is only about 4.5 MPG. Best part is it is very quiet. You will have to get on a scale to see what your true payload is, mine is 1,600 as validated by weighing it, but the higher end models weigh more due to more added equipment.
If you want to see a good comparison of Ford and Chevy SUVs do a search for the Fast Lane Truck, they have a YouTube channel and they compare towing capabilities of different trucks and large SUVs. Both The Ford and the Chevy would easily meet your needs it is a matter of personal preference. For me the Expedition has more cargo space, more horse power and low end torque, higher payload and higher overall tow capacity (9,200 pounds).
macandtlc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 05:43 AM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 86
I didn't read the whole string here, but I wanted to say that I just traded a 2015 Expedition Eco Boost for an F250 to pull my RW MiniLite 2506S because of the challenges I had with the trailer yanking around the Expy quite a bit in any wind or when trucks passed. I have a Blu Ox Sway Pro WDH. My first step in trying to make the rig work better was to weigh everything .... and much to my surprise, the tongue weight was pretty high and even with nothing really heavy in the Expy the setup pushed the weights over the 900# Limit on the hitch and also over the rear GAWR! So then I knew I needed a bigger tow vehicle. And the difference is amazing with the F250. Like you, I don't really need a truck for anything other than towing, but I've got a truck in my driveway now! LOL! BTW, the Expy Ecoboost was a wonderful SUV! We loved it! And it pulled the camper perfectly well in terms of power. It didn't even know it was there. It had max tow and brake controller etc. Excellent vehicle. It was the axle weight limit and the shorter wheelbase that caused the problems I think.
LLMRPh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 08:47 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
thebrakeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
LLMRPh,
That a pretty unique layout, with the bedroom in the rear. Looks very tongue-heavy, with the kitchen and a deep slideout forward of the axles. You probably only load light stuff (clothes) in the rear. If you can't keep it under 900 lbs, you may actually be over the 15% TW recommendation, which most people never see. Most 4800 lbs dry campers get loaded to 5800 lbs or so, and see maybe 12.5% on the tongue, or about 725 lbs.

Not that I have a point, or questioning your choice of tow vehicle. I just like to do the math, and yours is a bit unique.
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
thebrakeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 10:27 AM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrakeman View Post
LLMRPh,
That a pretty unique layout, with the bedroom in the rear. Looks very tongue-heavy, with the kitchen and a deep slideout forward of the axles. You probably only load light stuff (clothes) in the rear. If you can't keep it under 900 lbs, you may actually be over the 15% TW recommendation, which most people never see. Most 4800 lbs dry campers get loaded to 5800 lbs or so, and see maybe 12.5% on the tongue, or about 725 lbs.

Not that I have a point, or questioning your choice of tow vehicle. I just like to do the math, and yours is a bit unique.


Yes agreed! My TW came in at about 18% or so when I weighed it! I shifted everything I could to be back to seesaw the trailer backward a bit. Now that I have the F250 I'm going to weigh everything this weekend again. I know I'm well below the TV specs now, but I still hate that heavy TW. But it pulls like a dream now with the Blu Ox WDH. Not perfect. But I'm very sensitive to sway.
LLMRPh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 05:34 PM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrakeman View Post
LLMRPh,
That a pretty unique layout, with the bedroom in the rear. Looks very tongue-heavy, with the kitchen and a deep slideout forward of the axles. You probably only load light stuff (clothes) in the rear. If you can't keep it under 900 lbs, you may actually be over the 15% TW recommendation, which most people never see. Most 4800 lbs dry campers get loaded to 5800 lbs or so, and see maybe 12.5% on the tongue, or about 725 lbs.

Not that I have a point, or questioning your choice of tow vehicle. I just like to do the math, and yours is a bit unique.


Yes. The camper weights were deceiving. The actual weight on the scale was 5460 but 900 tongue weight. The max for the Expedition was 920 ... too close for my comfort. 16% of total weight so above the recommended 10-15%. Even with the WDH in place, the rear axle weight on the Expy was 4420! ... above the listed 4300 max on the Expy sticker! Hence the new truck. LOL. The fresh water tank is actually behind the axles on the MiniLite ... so I'm tempted to fill it when I travel to tip the camper back a bit off the tongue. And I'm putting all our "stuff" I'd normally keep in the truck in the bedroom of the camper to add even more rear weight. But overall having the F250 seemed to do the trick. It's so much more balanced with the length of the camper.
LLMRPh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 07:27 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLMRPh View Post
Yes agreed! My TW came in at about 18% or so when I weighed it! I shifted everything I could to be back to seesaw the trailer backward a bit. Now that I have the F250 I'm going to weigh everything this weekend again. I know I'm well below the TV specs now, but I still hate that heavy TW. But it pulls like a dream now with the Blu Ox WDH. Not perfect. But I'm very sensitive to sway.
I'm having trouble understanding these three statements being used together.

Pulls like a dream

BUT

Not perfect

AND

Sensitive to sway.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 08:08 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
I'm having trouble understanding these three statements being used together.



Pulls like a dream



BUT



Not perfect



AND



Sensitive to sway.


Pulls like a dream ... compared to the Expedition or the Jeep (which I used to pull a smaller camper a few years ago)
Not perfect ... because I still feel some sway now and then, but I expect that because it's pretty normal...
And I think I'm pretty sensitive to sway and every little swerve when I'm towing.
LLMRPh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 PM.