Are fuel additives cost effective

[Qwkynuf]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

This thread started on "increased fuel economy" which was all I really addressed.

As for all the other "benefits" that depends on specific needs and usually does not involve fuel economy.

But most of the "benefits" *do* involve confirmation bias.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Qwkynuf

But most of the "benefits" *do* involve confirmation bias.

Considering the number of tests and evaluations on the "fuel additive industry" over the last 30-40 years I'd say that there is plenty of unbiased "confirmation" that they provide little benefit.

As for evaluating fuel mileage increases without the use of scientific equipment and testing over the exact same conditions (terrain, temps, load, driver input, etc) the results can vary so much that any result is skewed one way or the other.

FWIW, the worldwide Automotive Aftermarket Fuel Additive market alone is projected to be a $3.1 billion dollar market and growing at 7.2% over previous forecasts.

Back in the day of full service Gas Stations additives were pushed by the pump attendants as they received all kinds of "rewards" Between commissions paid by the owners and the "tokens" (sometimes even real coins) that were packaged in the cans, they did their best to convince people they needed them. Made companies like Bardahl, Wynns, B&G, etc very profitable.

With the passing of full service gas stations it's now the Auto Parts chains that are doing the same. Walk into any OReilly A/P store and you'll find additives taking a huge amount of floor space. Also, behind the scenes you'll find regular promotions for employees to "push" them.

FWIW, other than DEF fluid and super cold weather additives, I wonder how many of the many trucking firms or construction companies that burn through thousands and thousands of diesel every day use fuel additives. Especially those that claim increased fuel mileage.

[CaptnJohn]

I’ve owned 4 Ford 6.7 diesels. Only thing ever added is Ford Cetane and Performance Booster. Maybe it does something and maybe not. Only added when towing if I remember to put it in.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

I’ve owned 4 Ford 6.7 diesels. Only thing ever added is Ford Cetane and Performance Booster. Maybe it does something and maybe not. Only added when towing if I remember to put it in.

This is how most people employ fuel additives. When they remember and/or occasionally. With the widely varying concentrations of additive it's hard to tell if it's actually providing any benefit.

[Qwkynuf]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Considering the number of tests and evaluations on the "fuel additive industry" over the last 30-40 years I'd say that there is plenty of unbiased "confirmation" that they provide little benefit.

As for evaluating fuel mileage increases without the use of scientific equipment and testing over the exact same conditions (terrain, temps, load, driver input, etc) the results can vary so much that any result is skewed one way or the other.

FWIW, the worldwide Automotive Aftermarket Fuel Additive market alone is projected to be a $3.1 billion dollar market and growing at 7.2% over previous forecasts.

Back in the day of full service Gas Stations additives were pushed by the pump attendants as they received all kinds of "rewards" Between commissions paid by the owners and the "tokens" (sometimes even real coins) that were packaged in the cans, they did their best to convince people they needed them. Made companies like Bardahl, Wynns, B&G, etc very profitable.

With the passing of full service gas stations it's now the Auto Parts chains that are doing the same. Walk into any OReilly A/P store and you'll find additives taking a huge amount of floor space. Also, behind the scenes you'll find regular promotions for employees to "push" them.

FWIW, other than DEF fluid and super cold weather additives, I wonder how many of the many trucking firms or construction companies that burn through thousands and thousands of diesel every day use fuel additives. Especially those that claim increased fuel mileage.

I think you misunderstood my comment.

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning.

In my youth I spent several years managing a small chain of oil change shops (in the pre-Jiffy Lube era). Each day would be met with a steady stream of

• "Don't get that Quaker State anywhere near my car! It'll "gum up" my engine!
• "I never use anything but Quaker State!"
• "Castrol is the best oil, by far!"
• "My dad's uncle used Kendall Motor Oil, and it ruined his engine!"
• "My mom's uncle used Kendall Motor Oil, and never changed it once in his 1965 Dart. We tore that thing down at 2 million miles and it looked brand new inside!"
• etc, etc, etc

I used to just smile and nod (and remember what I had been told by a chemical engineer from Pennzoil at around the same time - "82% of the contents of any quart of oil that you can buy - is chemically identical. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be oil")

So, my point was, there are people who are going to *believe* that the makers of Seafoam have come up with some sort of magical proprietary chemical compound that none of their competitors have been able to reverse engineer - and that it's not just a petroleum-based solvent. People believe evidence that supports their preconceived notions, and discount evidence that controverts them. They tend to not consider that they may be "preventing" something that was never going to happen anyway.

In fact, I have found that regular use of fuel additives prevents Ostrich attacks. I've never once been attacked by an ostrich while using them.

[NMWildcat]

LOL! Love your reply! Now when asked why I use Lucas additive, I can now confidently tell them that it prevents Ostrich attacks! Perfect!!!

Originally Posted by Qwkynuf

I think you misunderstood my comment.



In my youth I spent several years managing a small chain of oil change shops (in the pre-Jiffy Lube era). Each day would be met with a steady stream of

• "Don't get that Quaker State anywhere near my car! It'll "gum up" my engine!
• "I never use anything but Quaker State!"
• "Castrol is the best oil, by far!"
• "My dad's uncle used Kendall Motor Oil, and it ruined his engine!"
• "My mom's uncle used Kendall Motor Oil, and never changed it once in his 1965 Dart. We tore that thing down at 2 million miles and it looked brand new inside!"
• etc, etc, etc

I used to just smile and nod (and remember what I had been told by a chemical engineer from Pennzoil at around the same time - "82% of the contents of any quart of oil that you can buy - is chemically identical. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be oil")

So, my point was, there are people who are going to *believe* that the makers of Seafoam have come up with some sort of magical proprietary chemical compound that none of their competitors have been able to reverse engineer - and that it's not just a petroleum-based solvent. People believe evidence that supports their preconceived notions, and discount evidence that controverts them. They tend to not consider that they may be "preventing" something that was never going to happen anyway.

In fact, I have found that regular use of fuel additives prevents Ostrich attacks. I've never once been attacked by an ostrich while using them.

[Qwkynuf]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

LOL! Love your reply! Now when asked why I use Lucas additive, I can now confidently tell them that it prevents Ostrich attacks! Perfect!!!

Glad you liked it. Just remember that the effect is reduced in the southern hemisphere (especially in some parts of Africa) due to a combination of the Coriolis Effect and the actual presence of ostriches.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

This thread started on "increased fuel economy" which was all I really addressed.

As for all the other "benefits" that depends on specific needs and usually does not involve fuel economy.

We agree on fuel economy: no benefit.

We disagree on anti-gel and lubricity. I think those are real benefits.

[Qwkynuf]

Originally Posted by 67L48

We agree on fuel economy: no benefit.

We disagree on anti-gel and lubricity. I think those are real benefits.

The point of this whole thread has been about increased fuel efficiency. Nobody has disputed your premise. Not once.

[TowPro]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

moose074;
I use Power Service Antigel during the winter months in my Cummins and my wife's Jetta TDI fuel tanks. I add this as my requirement to prevent gelling fuel in the tank, in the winter months. I use about 1oz for every 4 gallons of fuel that is added to the tanks. I have been using POWER SERVICE Antigel for nearly 12 years now. In my current truck and I have never seen any improvement in fuel mileage over that time period.

Non towing fuel mileage without Power Service Antigel added was 14.34 miles per gallon. With Power Service Antigel added 14.29 miles per gallon. This is basically the same road conditions and driving speeds on highways and city streets.

Just my humble opinion add this additive just for your piece of mind if required.

One piece missed. During winter diesel blends change any I get 10% lower mpg so it sounds like additives are helping you some

[U.S.ArmyVeteran]

No comment on additives. But I think this may be of some use.




https://youtu.be/bm14Cw1pt24


https://toptiergas.com/





As always, Your Mileage May Vary


No recommendation from me , Just putting it out there.

[RFSims]

Howes Meaner Kleaner diesel fuel additive. (Bought some). 1 oz to 10 gallons of fuel mix ratio, a 1:1280 ratio. How much lubricity will a 1:1280 ratio anything add to diesel fuel? Think I blew $10.
2019 L5P Duramax.

[5er_tom]

I am old school. I drive it and do not add anything extra. No STP or anything else. If Ford recommends it, I use it otherwise no.
My 2cents.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by RFSims

Howes Meaner Kleaner diesel fuel additive. (Bought some). 1 oz to 10 gallons of fuel mix ratio, a 1:1280 ratio. How much lubricity will a 1:1280 ratio anything add to diesel fuel? Think I blew $10.
2019 L5P Duramax.

Here's an article on "lubricity" in diesel fuel.

https://fueloilnews.com/2010/03/04/t...-of-lubricity/

Following exhaustive field and laboratory test data, in 2005, a lubricity standard was introduced into the existing ASTM D975 calling for a maximum wear scar of 520 microns as determined by the newly established ASTM D6751 HFRR test method.

Vehicle manufacturers also require that fuel used comply with this ASTM D975 std. Fuel and Lube refiners follow the requirements of the Manufacturers so lubricity additives again are unnecessary. You already paid for them when you bought the tank of Diesel.

As for "anti-gel" or "cloud point depressants" (Cloud point is when the parafins (wax) that are dissolved in Diesel begin to solidify due to low temps which clog filters) , if faced with sub zero temps regularly they can provide a benefit although many diesel systems return excess fuel from the rail to the tank which provides some heat that keeps fuel above cloud point. For the most part the fuel distributors in a cold area make sure that both cloud point (as well as pour point) for their fuels are low enough for the temps encountered in their geographical areas.

Where some might get in difficulty is when they have LARGE tanks, fuel up in Phoenix, then drive to N Minnesota during the depth of winter.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 5er_tom

I am old school. I drive it and do not add anything extra. No STP or anything else. If Ford recommends it, I use it otherwise no.
My 2cents.

The manufacturer of my truck specifically recommends AGAINST the use of any additive in fuel or motor oil. Of course it's not a Diesel but I'm with you, if I owned a diesel, and the manufacturer recommended a specific additive for use in their engines, I'd follow their recommendations.

Been following mfr's recommendations for every engine I've ever owned. Average mileage (when traded or sold) on all the new vehicles I've owned over 40 years is so far ~250k miles with NO internal engine repairs. Strictly accessories like tune up, belts, hoses, etc.

[Hatchee]

I have been told by two different mechanics that for diesels, it is better to change the fuel filter more often than to use additives. I admit to doing both.

[Villagerjjm]

The only additive I would use is the Seafoam. I

[grumpyoldman]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Here's an article on "lubricity" in diesel fuel.
Great article.
https://fueloilnews.com/2010/03/04/t...-of-lubricity/



Vehicle manufacturers also require that fuel used comply with this ASTM D975 std. Fuel and Lube refiners follow the requirements of the Manufacturers so lubricity additives again are unnecessary. You already paid for them when you bought the tank of Diesel.

As for "anti-gel" or "cloud point depressants" (Cloud point is when the parafins (wax) that are dissolved in Diesel begin to solidify due to low temps which clog filters) , if faced with sub zero temps regularly they can provide a benefit although many diesel systems return excess fuel from the rail to the tank which provides some heat that keeps fuel above cloud point. For the most part the fuel distributors in a cold area make sure that both cloud point (as well as pour point) for their fuels are low enough for the temps encountered in their geographical areas.
I wasn't a believer in anti-gel additives until this past January when we had 2 days in a row of 30 below zero temperatures. On the second day of this cold snap I had a doctor appointment to go to. Truck started fine , but it died less than a mile from home due to gelled fuel. I now add anti-gel from November to March just in case..
Where some might get in difficulty is when they have LARGE tanks, fuel up in Phoenix, then drive to N Minnesota during the depth of winter.

I add a separate injector cleaner and a cetane booster. I have never expected and of these additives to increase my fuel mileage. I add them for peace of mind. Probably a waste of money, but that's OK.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by TowPro

One piece missed. During winter diesel blends change any I get 10% lower mpg so it sounds like additives are helping you some

I agree that the winter blend fuel does change slightly. But the same energy content is still in the diesel fuel that I use. I have discuss this with the bulk diesel fuel carrier at the station that I normally fill-up at. The driver fills up his tanker with bulk fuel and adds winter additives to the fuel. The refinery where the diesel fuel is procured from does not blend kerosene fuel NO.1 with diesel fuel NO 2.

I record the station that I purchase my fuel every time I fill up so, I know if there is an issues or not with that fuel. I also keep my receipt in case there is a fuel issue and this causes issue with my fuel system in my vehicles.

Another point I would like to state, when I was working. The corporation and the test engineers would discount any test results of 10% or lower percentage. Why? This could be operator induce results by the operation of the operator, trying to improve the test results. Also this can and was very difficult to obtain the same results repeatedly!

[D W]

Originally Posted by MR.M

I don't think your statement is entirely accurate . even refiners as you say add detergents and other things to improve the gas . sea foam works period weather it's a neglected fuel system or used to keep clean . all my small engines and motorcycle engine if they could speak would agree . one of my renter bought a push mower that was neglected added sea foam to the gas was able to get engine running by adding gas in the carb in order to keep running i had to almost choke off the air intake after about 15 mins the sea faom started cleaning the passage way and clear up the carb . so to say it's a placebo is just false . It works

There's a world of difference between a carb and today's port fuel injection systems. Yes, back in the day you could use a $2 spray can of GUMOUT to clean the carb easily. With port fuel injection any additive you put in the fuel tank will never come in contact with the throttle plate in the Throttle Body which tends to pick up deposits of gunk. Additionally, many say they use SEAFOAM to flush out the fuel lines? I've yet to hear an explanation of how the debris that is "flushed-out" get through the filter screens of the Multec2 injectors.