Calm my nerves about towing on the highway

[lbrjet]

What number is your 'super high revs'? I drive 60 on interstates because I think that is a safe speed. I drive the speed limit on secondary roads. People pass me.

Engines blow from lack of maintenance, like running out of oil, not from spinning high revs. The computer will not let you hurt the engine.

I would take your trip and drive whatever speed you are comfortable with.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[keith52]

Take the interstate and keep to the right. Enjoy your trip!!

[elind]

In Michigan pulling a RV under 10,000, the speed limit is posted speed limit. But the semi's speed limit on freeways is 60mph, so going 60 in the right lane shouldn't be all bad. ps... I know....truckers will push it faster if they can get away with it.

[pipe]

We prefer the back roads(only have to watch the car in front of me) I for one would not travel on 75 going that speed. Why not plan your route on secondary roads. We just came from your area up to Michigan. We took 31 up to 30 then to 65 north to 109 into Mi. on 52. That takes you way north to 57 then west to 66 north that's puts you almost to the bridge. Traffic well be light from this point on so no worries getting on 131.

Take your time and enjoy

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

Engines blow from lack of maintenance, like running out of oil, not from spinning high revs. The computer will not let you hurt the engine.

I don't think I'd fully agree with this. While modern factory spec engines do have rev limiters that are designed to keep them from exceeding a safe RPM level, turning high RPM is still hard on an engine. While an extreme hypothetical to prove the point, if you were to run your engine indefinitely at 5K and I run mine at 1.5K, which would make it to a higher mileage? Just remember that an engine with 50K run at 4K RPM has the same number of total revolutions as an engine with 100K run at 2K RPM. This isn't even taking into account the additional stress the engine sees from increased piston speed and so on. This also doesn't take into account the transmission that also has to deal with the additional forces encountered when running high RPM. Earlier I advised considering a gear swap to slightly increase RPM for additional power and torque multiplication. While this might seem contradictory to what I am now stating, I still think the OP would be better off with the gear swap than dropping to second and revving to much higher RPM. Transmissions see a lot of stress when constantly downshifting under load to maintain speed and I think the slight additional stress to the engine from the additional RPM would be much more acceptable. Especially considering the much better towing experience I think the OP would have. Clear as mud, now?

[Wileykid]

If the maintenance on the engine is kept up, you should not have to worry about the engine. I would follow the "severe" duty maintenance section of the manual, but otherwise, your engine is designed to work all the way up to red line.

My normal speed towing is 65 mph. Can I go faster? Sure, I am fortunate to have the ability to go a lot faster, but really don't care to. If I am on a two lane road, first chance I get to pull over if there is a line, I do.

Mark

[NMWildcat]

Just from your (the OP) posts you already know what you need to do for the future. Your truck is under powered and working too hard, so every towing trip is going to be uncomfortable from the drivers seat no matter what road you take. Nothing you can add to your truck will improve its towing capabilities. You will be holding up traffic and if that bothers you then the trip is even more uncomfortable.

So for now all you can do is use what you got and make the best of it. You already know you need more truck when you can afford it.

I pulled with a half ton for years. Each new RV was a little bigger until the truck wasn't enough and every drive was uncomfortable. When I moved up in truck size and power it is amazing how stress free the towing is now!!!

Good luck!!

[BandJCarm]

Wildcat beat me to it.

This thread is the most common here. "I own X truck and I just bought a big trailer. Can I justify towing it with X truck?"

That one causes the most consternation, best I can tell. Only by Serendipity did I upgrade my TV before I ordered the trailer. I 'kicked against the goads' as hard as anyone before that.

And if you get past that discussion, the logical next one is "When I upgrade should I get a diesel" and that causes the 2nd most consternation.

Just pull it. Go camping. No one can calm your nerves. If it pulls, it pulls. If it doesn't, you'll adjust something. Everyone's been there in GENERAL but no one has been YOU specifically.

FWIW, remember the commercial with the Toyota small truck pulling the space shuttle?

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I don't think I'd fully agree with this. While modern factory spec engines do have rev limiters that are designed to keep them from exceeding a safe RPM level, turning high RPM is still hard on an engine. While an extreme hypothetical to prove the point, if you were to run your engine indefinitely at 5K and I run mine at 1.5K, which would make it to a higher mileage? Just remember that an engine with 50K run at 4K RPM has the same number of total revolutions as an engine with 100K run at 2K RPM. This isn't even taking into account the additional stress the engine sees from increased piston speed and so on. This also doesn't take into account the transmission that also has to deal with the additional forces encountered when running high RPM. Earlier I advised considering a gear swap to slightly increase RPM for additional power and torque multiplication. While this might seem contradictory to what I am now stating, I still think the OP would be better off with the gear swap than dropping to second and revving to much higher RPM. Transmissions see a lot of stress when constantly downshifting under load to maintain speed and I think the slight additional stress to the engine from the additional RPM would be much more acceptable. Especially considering the much better towing experience I think the OP would have. Clear as mud, now?

In the grand scheme of things, pure number of rotations rarely matter in engine wear. Once oil film boundary layers are established, there is surprisingly little metal-to-metal contact in a running engine. Bearings and rings tend to "float" on a layer of oil. Oil quality, quantity and cooling are the 3 biggest factors in longevity, but the #1 biggest one is starts. I remember reading an article once that sail 75% of engine bearing wear occurs during cold engine cranking.

The 4.3 is a proven design. There are countless thousands of boats out there with the same basic engine turning 4500-4800 for the bigger parts of their lives with no issues.

Rev that little guy, it can take it without "blowing".

Tim

[dalford]

I tow almost exclusively on Interstate highways. I have towed probably 20K miles in the last several years. I always drive at 60MPh on the interstate. Your ST trailer tires are rated for 65MPH max.

I stay in the right lane and do occasionally pass other vehicles. You will see many RV's going in the opposite direction and of course some will blow by you with a total disregard for tire specs.

So, as I see it you can stop worrying about driving 60MPH on the interstate and as long as your TV engine is within specs enjoy yourself.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

In the grand scheme of things, pure number of rotations rarely matter in engine wear. Once oil film boundary layers are established, there is surprisingly little metal-to-metal contact in a running engine. Bearings and rings tend to "float" on a layer of oil. Oil quality, quantity and cooling are the 3 biggest factors in longevity, but the #1 biggest one is starts. I remember reading an article once that sail 75% of engine bearing wear occurs during cold engine cranking.

The 4.3 is a proven design. There are countless thousands of boats out there with the same basic engine turning 4500-4800 for the bigger parts of their lives with no issues.

Rev that little guy, it can take it without "blowing".

Tim

Considering the average boat sees nowhere near the amount of use a truck will, I'm not sure I'd be encouraged by that point. According to your assessment, an engine should theoretically last forever with regular oil changes. We know this not to be the case. How long an engine will last is technically not about mileage, but about revolutions. If we know that an engine will effectively last a certain number of revolutions, our mileage will vary depending upon the ratio of speed to RPM. As RPM increase while keeping speed constant, our mileage output of the engine will drop, correct?

[youroo]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Considering the average boat sees nowhere near the amount of use a truck will, I'm not sure I'd be encouraged by that point. According to your assessment, an engine should theoretically last forever with regular oil changes. We know this not to be the case. How long an engine will last is technically not about mileage, but about revolutions. If we know that an engine will effectively last a certain number of revolutions, our mileage will vary depending upon the ratio of speed to RPM. As RPM increase while keeping speed constant, our mileage output of the engine will drop, correct?

A boat engine really leads a Hard life,they don't ever get to coast or have the Transmission advantage,always Under a Load! Not much Dirty Air,but even though they have All the Cooling Water they Still Run HOT oil and Cooling even with Extra Coolers! Feel sorry for the ones that even have to Run "Backwards" all their life! Youroo!!

[KansasJohn]

Thought I would chime in here, since I used to tow with nearly the same exact truck. I had a 2009 Silverado 1500 regular cab, long bed with the 4.3, 3.73 rear end. I pulled my 2009 Rockwood Mini Lite 1809 with that truck all over, including through the Rockies. Like you, I installed a large Derale transmission cooler.

The stated dry weight of my trailer is 3093, according to the yellow sticker. When I scaled my truck and trailer together, with full fresh water, propane, two 6v batteries, and camping gear, I was a shade over 10,500 pounds. (I had a fiberglass camper shell, bed mat, generator, tools, and firewood in the bed of the truck as well) When I dig up the weight slip, I will try and post it here.

I am curious what your RPMs are on the highway. On flat ground, I frequently ran in 3rd gear around 2600RPM. When I hit hills, it would downshift to second, but would pull just fine. My particular truck actually towed a little better at 65 than 60, because the RPMs climbed up just a bit more into the truck's torque band. I never tried to tow over 65. I pulled the trailer nearly 10,000 miles (Truck had 125k when I started towing frequently with it) and I had no major mechanical problems to speak of. (I did replace the transmission, but that was at 110,000 before I started towing frequently with it.)

I think your truck should be more than up to pulling your Surveyor. It's not going to be a speed demon, and you will have to let it rev occasionally. The 4.3 has good torque down low to get the load moving, (I believe torque peak is at 2800RPM) but, in order to produce horsepower, it needs to be revving high. I climbed several 6%+ grades over 7,500 feet in Colorado pulling my Mini Lite with that 4.3, and I never had the pedal on the floor. Sure, climbing most of these passes I was down to 25MPH in first gear, but the truck did it. My transmission temperatures consistently stayed under 210 with the large cooler I had. I did see a short spike to 215 climbing Monarch pass (6.4% grade) but it cooled down quickly.

I only upgraded because I really wanted a backseat and found a killer deal on a new truck. Don't be afraid to work that 4.3. Like you said, it's a bulletproof engine and can rev at 4k+ all day long as you take care of. Change oil frequently, check your coolant, and change transmission fluid every 25-50k.

Enjoy your Surveyor and your 4.3, and see you out on the road!!

If anyone is interested, here is a Youtube video of my truck climbing the "Million Dollar Highway" out of Ouray, Colorado. Ignore the ridiculous commentary from my brother and I :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eWVAVTbJoE

And finally, here are some images from the Colorado Road Trip:

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Considering the average boat sees nowhere near the amount of use a truck will, I'm not sure I'd be encouraged by that point. According to your assessment, an engine should theoretically last forever with regular oil changes. We know this not to be the case. How long an engine will last is technically not about mileage, but about revolutions. If we know that an engine will effectively last a certain number of revolutions, our mileage will vary depending upon the ratio of speed to RPM. As RPM increase while keeping speed constant, our mileage output of the engine will drop, correct?

I assure you that there are many boats that spend WAAAY more hours above 4500 rpm than your truck ever will.

Of course, no engine will last forever, but once started and running, you would be surprised at how little wear an engine will have. When engines break down, its not usually because the crank bearings wore out, or the pistons scraped the rings down to nothing. Most catastrophic engine failures that are not caused by operator action (overheating, oil starvation, over-rev) are due to things like broken timing belt, and aging rubber seals and gaskets that have very little to do with mileage and are more dependent on time.

It's easy to think that if an engine is red-lined at 6000 rpm, then running it at 5500 for any length of time is courting disaster, but that's simply not true. Engines, especially modern ones with modern metallurgy and modern electronic controls are designed to run at any and all speeds up to redline. And honestly most could exceed redline by a couple hundred revs safely, if the engine computers would allow.


If you really want to bake your noodle, try riding a Kawasaki Ninja 250r sometimes. Its kind of unsettling to be cruising around at 9000 and having to throw 2 downshifts to get the engine into the meat of its power band (about 13,000 rpm).

Tim

[53jimc]

I have a '07 Surveyor that I was pulling with a '99 Z71 and I hated it. 6mpg, engine screaming. I sold it and bought a '05 6.0 diesel. Amazing difference. I will say that I liked my Chevy better than I like the Lariat, but pulling is night and day, and I get 12mpg pulling with the diesel.
The $100 oil changes aren't any fun, though.

[retired06]

If you'd like a better route around Toledo,Detroit,Flint and Saginaw, take I-475/US23 around the west side of Toledo once you get in Mi. take US223 to US127 and reconnect to I-75 just south of Grayling. much better way to go.

[jking46]

One thing no one has mentioned is the fact that most trailer tires are speed rated at 62 to 65 mph. Add the fact that the camper is 10 years old.....I wouldn't drive over 60 no matter what the TV is.

As to the " will it pull it" question. You will be at the trucks capacity but OK. Pack light,drive slow, you'll be OK. Upgrade when possible for a more comfortable experience.

[lugoismad]

Originally Posted by jking46

One thing no one has mentioned is the fact that most trailer tires are speed rated at 62 to 65 mph. Add the fact that the camper is 10 years old.....I wouldn't drive over 60 no matter what the TV is.

As to the " will it pull it" question. You will be at the trucks capacity but OK. Pack light,drive slow, you'll be OK. Upgrade when possible for a more comfortable experience.

What does the trailers age have to do with it? I just put new tires on it last summer and repacked the bearings.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by lugoismad

GCWR for my truck is 4309.

I'm well within towing specs.

You may not be, especially when you use the fantasy brochure "dry" weight of your trailer.
That 3700lbs number is the brochure number, NOT actual weight when it left the factory. That's the weight of a stripped down 235RS.
The actual factory weight is on the white sticker inside a cabinet.
My similar size 2007 Roo 23SS weighed 400lbs more than the brochure dry weight.
Also that 3700 number doesn't include battery or propane weight.

So your trailer could easily weigh around 4200lbs BEFORE you add water and cargo.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

I assure you that there are many boats that spend WAAAY more hours above 4500 rpm than your truck ever will.

You don't have to assure me as I am aware of that. I own a boat, have owned "crotch rockets" and have built pretty hot engines for vehicles I've restored. I most certainly don't know it all, but I still don't buy that prolonged high RPM usage doesn't shorten the life of engines. I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they replace those engines after every race? They're not blown, so why replace them? And I'm sure they're using the best lubricants money can buy. And only a handful of cold starts. The obvious answer to me is that those engines have seen substantial stress from sustained high RPM. Are they running much higher RPM than we're talking for typical passenger vehicles- absolutely- but they also use much better components and are built with much more care. Anecdotal evidence from my own "aggressive" driving and observation of others also indicates to me that high RPM and frequent downshifting can lead to mechanical failures involving the engine and the transmission. I'm sure all of us have had different experiences that have formed our opinions on the matter- hopefully the OP can weed through it all and get a little something of value. One other thing I haven't considered is the additional heat from high RPM usage. Curious your thoughts on what effect that would have.