Can newer "half tons" really tow more & better?

[Dustyhd]

Originally Posted by Puma26RLSS

I started this thread to get some user advice about the desirability of purchasing a newer tow truck for my current Puma travel trailer, which as I have already indicated, I have pulled successfully for over 25,000 miles with my 2007 Ram. I appreciate the thoroughness of discussion around the issue. I think the recent discussion around the way weight/towing ratings are measured is very insightful and very worthy of study. However, since the issue of safety with a travel trailer has been the focus of our forum's use of the trucks and the testing rigor is weighted more toward the commercial trailer use, does anyone have any actual insurance/accident data showing any trends. For instance, is the beefing up of half ton pickups and their travel trailer use contributing to more, less or the same level of actual accidents? I know we all may have some anecdotal scenarios or personal observations, but what about substantive statistical data? Perhaps there is an insurance adjuster or automotive designer out there with some hard data on pickup/travel trailer accident trends?

Just because you can adjust the stiffness of a vehicle doesn’t necessarily mean it will have a higher towing capacity. A good example of this is a Ford F-150 HDPP vs the Max Tow pkg. The HDPP has a lower tow rating because of it’s higher GVWR. The SAE standard is not geared just towards commercial use, many normal consumers pull trailers besides a RV TT. I have 4 different types, a 20ft enclosed dual axle cargo, 32ft RV TT, a 18 ft horse trailer, and 22 ft deck over flat bed. I can make any one of those trailers tow good or tow really bad depending on how I load them which is the key. In general the RV TT has the worse towing characteristics by design since the floor plan dictates a lot of its weight distribution, 75% of its weight is fixed and not movable. If you use its payload capabilities wisely you can make a significant improvement. My TT has a overall weight of 8,000lbs and it’s TW % runs in a range 11.6 - 12% TW.

If you are overloaded and are in a accident in which significant personal injury occurs, investigators could determine that being overloaded contributed to it. There are plenty of lawyers that would gladly take that case should someone decide to go that route. That still doesn’t mean that even if you are not overloaded that you/insurance company can’t be sued so there’s always a risk involved either way.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

If that is GVWR and actual is 1000 lighter, maybe. What I towed weighed 6400# with a 7600# GVWR. It handled fine, but you know you have something big and heavy. With 6400# and my two teens I was right at GVWR of the truck, but I also have a topper and carry a genny and fuel, a toolbox and cooler in the back, so while for the most part doable, still have to pay close attention to what is IN the truck too when you go to the Luxury trims. The payload on Platinums ranges from 1524 -1587 from the various ones I looked at in 4WD, mine is RWD with 1557 payload. The F150 3.5EB with 10 speed and Max Tow is perfectly geared @ 3.55 for towing, Ford did the homework on that. The 10 Speed is a game changer and eliminated the guess work on what rear end to have. 1st is ultra low, giving even lower gearing than 3.73 had with the previous 6 speed, while adding double over drives above what the 6 speed had.



Depending on the TW of the trailer and what is in the truck, a Platinum can tow that trailer just fine, can mine? Maybe not, depends on TW.









Yes, I know all about SAE J2807, but you still can't skirt physics. All that test sets standards for is being able to go up a grade, hold still on the grade, brake going down the grade, and being able to turn, but physics still plays a huge part in safe towing. With a GVWR of 7050 pounds, do you really want to be towing twice the truck weight behind it, or would you rather have some added mass up front to help anchor that massive wind sail in the back?



Lets face it, the SAE J2807 is geared toward commercial type towing, flat beds carrying heavy equipment, which in the construction world the 1/2 ton is perfectly fine at, but THIS is an RV forum, we discuss houses on wheels that go through a Hurriquake down the road. Flatbeds loaded correctly are very stable, very low wind resistance from all angles, RV's are just the opposite, they are huge wind sails that move when wind hits them and wind never hits full on, but at different angles at different locations. Anyone who had a poor setup and got blown all over from a semi can attest to this. Their axle locations allow for large pivot points, where an imbalance to the rear can greatly upset the tow vehicle.



Commercially, the towing adverts make sense as the intended target audience is really the construction business. That's fine and all, but with the current market trends having more people buying pickups as grocery getters, they buy the Luxury truck and get told they can tow these huge trailers when in reality, they can't, and that leads to potential disasters. At some point there has to be something put in place to prevent misleading information about this, because that is essentially what is happening, it is misleading people into believing their 1/2 ton truck has the towing capability of a Medium duty for towing an RV, when in fact, it does not. Maybe if they add an addendum to SAE J2807 for RV type trailers that need 13% or more TW for stability, along with a structure for measuring wind, with the lower values more attuned to safe handling, then it should make it easier on the consumer and remove some of guess work out of the "Can I tow this" equation.



You can't beat physics, it's that simple. Think about it for a moment, if wind is strong enough that you feel it in a Medium Duty, imagine what that is like in a Light Duty. Anyone who has towed with both can attest to that.

Read all of the standard the higher the weight the larger the frontal area that is required. As for physics the heavier the total object the longer or more energy required to stop it. So I go to a 1 ton truck it weighs 3k ( just for example) more than my 1/2 ton truck but only has say 6 inches of extra braking surface. Not sure how physics helps you. Now if you get into the what if game, what if trailer brakes go out, what if some one cuts you off, what if a meteor struck the list goes on and on. My 13k 5th wheel pushes my 1 ton Dually thru stop signs at 15 mph if I don’t hookup the brakes.