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Old 10-18-2018, 04:22 PM   #1
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Capacity and weight questions

The Wolf Pack 24pack14+ info says:
GVWR = 9985
UVW = 6373
Hitch weight = 1015
CCC = 3612

How is the hitch wt. number established? It is 11% of the GVWR. Is it a target number when the CCC is maxed out?

And how do you accurately determine true hitch weight? Can I use the rear axle weight of my TV previously weighed unhitched and subtract from rear axle weight measured when hitched?

Thanks, sorry for the dumb questions.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:31 PM   #2
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I do not know how Forest River establishes hitch weight so I plan for 15% of TT's GVWR Using rear axle weight alone is, IMO, a close estimate. I'd prefer entire truck loaded with family and gear to be weighed hitched and unhitched. Having said that, it is not usual practice and may not be accurate. There many threads describing the preferred procedure in this forum.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:42 PM   #3
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I'll search for how to weigh your rig. I was just using a free, roadside scales that was barely long enough to weigh my TV.

Why 15%? Would that be different for different types of TT's? Like toyhauler vs. conventional TT?
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:43 PM   #4
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The layout on your trailer is almost identical to mine with matching dry weights and cargo capacity. Looking at your signature we do similar things (haul motorcycles) so more similarities in loading. That being said the only way to know for sure is to take weights with your trailer and loads...

The hitch number is established by weighing it and it will change a great deal with your toyhauler from loaded to unloaded. The sticker on the side of my trailer was right on the money when dry. When wet its a whole new animal...

I weigh the tongue weight every time I have pulled the trailer (you can buy a scale). I have seen tongue weights from about 950 to 1500lbs. These variations make towing this trailer with a 1/2 ton truck problematic.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:47 PM   #5
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You cannot use rear axle weight with/without trailer to determine hitch weight, the difference will not be the hitch weight due to weight also transferred off the front axle.

For example, I have my empty and hitched w/o WDH numbers as follows...

Empty:
Front - 3200
Rear - 2680

Hitched w/o WDH:
Front - 2940
Rear - 3600

If you subtract 2680 from 3600 you get 920lb. That is not the tongue weight, that's roughly 40% more than the actual tongue weight. Why? Because when the trailer is hitched up it raises the front and takes weight off the front axle but that weight doesn't magically disappear, it moves to the rear axle.

So, to get the actual tongue weight you either need a scale to weigh the actual tongue weight or you need to have the truck weighed empty to get steer/drive weights with no trailer and then have it weighed again with the trailer hitched up but without the WDH bars in place to get the loaded steer/drive axle weights on the truck, then subtract the empty weights from the hitched weights.

If you're trying to determine if you have enough payload capacity, calculate 15% of the GVWR. That means you could have roughly 1,500LB of tongue weight with that trailer. That is a heavy bumper-pull trailer. That is more trailer than your Tundra can handle, unfortunately.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 2thdr View Post
I'll search for how to weigh your rig. I was just using a free, roadside scales that was barely long enough to weigh my TV.

Why 15%? Would that be different for different types of TT's? Like toyhauler vs. conventional TT?
What I have read on these forums is that tongue weight should be >= 10% and <= 15%. So if 15% is a reasonable maximum then if I can handle it, I'm good (all other factors being within parameters.)
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #7
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Use a bathroom scale and some 4x4's.. Plenty of youtube videos on it and it is pretty accurate. Then you'll know your hitch weight.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:40 PM   #8
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Take it to a truck stop and do a series of weighings:
How to Weigh a Travel Trailer | Learn To RV

Then take the weigh slips and fill the Actual Weights calculator on:
Towing Planner - towing capability calculators
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2thdr View Post
The Wolf Pack 24pack14+ info says:
GVWR = 9985
UVW = 6373
Hitch weight = 1015
CCC = 3612

How is the hitch wt. number established? It is 11% of the GVWR. Is it a target number when the CCC is maxed out?

And how do you accurately determine true hitch weight? Can I use the rear axle weight of my TV previously weighed unhitched and subtract from rear axle weight measured when hitched?

Thanks, sorry for the dumb questions.
You can calculate from those rear axle weights tongue weight.

(Wheelbase + rear axle to ball distance)/Wheelbase= hitch factor
(RAW with TW - empty RAW)/hitch factor= hitch weight
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:51 AM   #10
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The factory numbers are dry weights from the factory. No gas, batteries, water etc.

The hitch weight should also be there. Between 10-15%. Should always be that number.

To calculate the changes in loading is a statics question. Generally a junior level engineering course. You need length from pivot points. A lot of effort. I can do it, most cannot. Simply too much effort.

For $13 a trip to the cat scale answers everything.

You kind of have to learn to balance the loads you add.

I have noticed that toy hauler fivers usually have high hitch weights assuming you will load the rear. Therefor dry I would assume the hitch weights are too high in anticipation of heavy toys in the rear. Balances out.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
You cannot use rear axle weight with/without trailer to determine hitch weight, the difference will not be the hitch weight due to weight also transferred off the front axle.

For example, I have my empty and hitched w/o WDH numbers as follows...

Empty:
Front - 3200
Rear - 2680

Hitched w/o WDH:
Front - 2940
Rear - 3600

If you subtract 2680 from 3600 you get 920lb. That is not the tongue weight, that's roughly 40% more than the actual tongue weight. Why? Because when the trailer is hitched up it raises the front and takes weight off the front axle but that weight doesn't magically disappear, it moves to the rear axle.

So, to get the actual tongue weight you either need a scale to weigh the actual tongue weight or you need to have the truck weighed empty to get steer/drive weights with no trailer and then have it weighed again with the trailer hitched up but without the WDH bars in place to get the loaded steer/drive axle weights on the truck, then subtract the empty weights from the hitched weights.

If you're trying to determine if you have enough payload capacity, calculate 15% of the GVWR. That means you could have roughly 1,500LB of tongue weight with that trailer. That is a heavy bumper-pull trailer. That is more trailer than your Tundra can handle, unfortunately.
TV is 5880 empty
TV is 6540 loaded
Tongue is 660
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hbillsmith View Post
TV is 5880 empty
TV is 6540 loaded
Tongue is 660
Correct. 660 * 1.4 = 924, 40% more than the actual tongue weight. I guess I should have included the real weight and not just stated the rear axle weight difference was 40% more than the real tongue weight, I was mainly trying to make the point that measuring the weight difference of ONLY the rear axles is not going to provide the correct information as the OP was asking if that was how to do it.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2thdr View Post
I'll search for how to weigh your rig. I was just using a free, roadside scales that was barely long enough to weigh my TV.

Why 15%? Would that be different for different types of TT's? Like toyhauler vs. conventional TT?
My reading has revealed that most authorities recommend 10 to 15 percent of Gross trailer weight for a ball hitch and 25 percent for a 5th wheel.

Cheers

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Old 10-20-2018, 06:08 AM   #14
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My fiver weighs about #12,000.

From the factory hitch weight is #1,850.

Therefor about 15%.

I would conclude that toy haulers are designed with higher hitch weights that go down as loaded. Staticís 101.

I would think that normal fivers hitch weight would always go up. Storage is virtually always forward. Batteries, propane to start with. Thatís not even to the basement yet.
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Old 10-20-2018, 06:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by tomkatb View Post
...

I would conclude that toy haulers are designed with higher hitch weights that go down as loaded. Staticís 101.

...
In my research and first hand experience with a tt toyhauler is that they generally have higher tongue weights empty and they get heavier when loaded. It looks as though the manufacturer's make an effort to keep the tongue weight nearer the 15% mark. -This makes sense considering the high payload capacities of toyhaulers...if nearer 10% dry and loaded incorrectly, there would be a higher potential for a really bad tow.


I can't get anywhere near 10% with my trailer (which is almost identical to the what the OP is considering) loaded or empty. In fact, the lowest loaded weight % on the tongue I've seen is about 14%...usually beyond 15%. Empty for me is about 950 and loaded can go as high as about 1500lbs.

Call it a statics 101 failure if you like but suggesting to the OP that his tongue weight will go down is doing him a disservice by swaying him to believe his Tundra will be OK...
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:45 AM   #16
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We fought the battle of the Tundra for over a year while I was laid up. Yes, the powertrain is overbuilt and it can handle large trailers, but the suspension is not, and cannot handle larger trailers. My 20114 Tundra stuck way up in the air when we dropped our trailer on it. We finally gave up, bit the bullet, took the bath and got a 3/4 ton. Going to pull the trailer with the Chevy for the 1st time today, just surface street's to Ray's RV for some work.
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Old 10-20-2018, 03:22 PM   #17
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Recommended/published tongue/hitch weights for RV trailers are a mandatory requirements the trailer manufacturers MUST provide to determine vehicle weight qualifications for vehicle certification. Here, in part, is how the regulation reads. The trailerís recommended tongue weight, when added to the trailerís total vehicle certified GAWR weights, MUST not be less than the trailerís GVWR.

Once the trailer is sold the new owner is 100% responsible for its tongue/hitch weight.

Ref: FMVSS 571.120 paragraph S10.2
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:01 PM   #18
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First step would be to weigh the truck loaded for a trip.

My guess is it will have less than#1000 of payload remaining.

Adding batteries and propane plus stuff will raise the load. Plus with a trailer this size a weight distributing hitch is mandatory. Reduces payload another #100.

No way below payload.

Most trucks run out of payload before towing capacity.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:28 PM   #19
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The trailerís recommended tongue weight, when added to the trailerís total vehicle certified GAWR weights, MUST not be less than the trailerís GVWR.

???
If I read that sentence correctly, it is not making sense to me. Hitch weight cannot be less than GVWR? Please excuse any idiocy on my part.
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by CurtPutnam View Post


???
If I read that sentence correctly, it is not making sense to me. Hitch weight cannot be less than GVWR? Please excuse any idiocy on my part.

You forgot to add it to the total weight of the GAWRs.
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