Cool it down

[NMWildcat]

Why does everyone think that driving/towing out west is so demanding? If you have a problem, fix it, otherwise don't go looking for non-existent problems...... Geesh

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

I was replying to Jim since he didn't seem to understand how Evans works which was in response to a newer member hijacking the thread. Keep up!

I do know how "Evans" works but this is not what the manufacture or Dodge/Ram recommend to use in the Cummins engine! If this product did meet the OEM requirements I would believe they would have installed this in the engine.

This is just like a lot of aftermarket products that inverters thinks there is a need for a product. They than market the product and some people drink the Kool-Aid and proclaim the benefits of this item. If this was so, good the OEM would have specified this product either as original equipment or an alternative for aftermarket use.

I know how this works, I spent forty years in vehicle design on heavy equipment.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Why does everyone think that driving/towing out west is so demanding? [...]

I think the Rocky Mountains and I wouldn't disagree. It's a lot different experience for me and puts all kinds of different strains on my vehicle driving up the Rockies at 11,000' than the Appalachians at 3,000'. Your experience, of course, could be different. But, yeah, I think people equate going west with Rocky Mtn climbs and that being more demanding than other climbs.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

I do know how "Evans" works but this is not what the manufacture or Dodge/Ram recommend to use in the Cummins engine! If this product did meet the OEM requirements I would believe they would have installed this in the engine.

This is just like a lot of aftermarket products that inverters thinks there is a need for a product. They than market the product and some people drink the Kool-Aid and proclaim the benefits of this item. If this was so, good the OEM would have specified this product either as original equipment or an alternative for aftermarket use.

I know how this works, I spent forty years in vehicle design on heavy equipment.

You may have spent 40 years doing that but you're making false assumptions about coolant and trying to pass it off as fact. I'm going to say this one last time and then I'm done because we're just derailing the OP's thread more.


The OEM coolant spec for the 6.7 in the Ram has NOTHING to do with what Cummins requires. ZERO. It has EVERYTHING to do with what FCA uses in the rest of their vehicles for a given model year.


Case in point, Ram spec'd HOAT (Zerex G-05) for 2007.5-2012 Ram trucks, gas and 6.7 diesel.


For model year 2013, FCA made the switch to OAT. This included changing the 6.7 coolant from HOAT to OAT in order to simplify supply chain management and dealer parts inventory. Cummins DID NOT make any change to the coolant specs.


The 6.7L IS NOT a wet sleeve block so coolant spec is largely inconsequential since sleeve pitting is not possible.


The use of HOAT or OAT was dictated by FCA, not Cummins. The argument that "if it met OEM specs then they'd use it" is more false assumptions. The reason you have to flush with Evans prep fluid first is because if you don't and there's some residual OEM coolant that is incompatible with Evans then they will react and can cause problems, just like mixing HOAT (like Zerex G-05) and OAT (something like DEX-COOL) will cause them to react with each other, start to form sludge, and can turn corrosive.


Further, for non-Ram 6.7L applications, many/most chassis builders use coolant such as Fleet Charge, Final Charge, Fleetguard Compleat ES OAT, etc...which are all OAT coolants. Even when FCA/Ram was using HOAT (pre-2013) the other manufacturers were using OAT.


Meeting the OEM coolant spec for the 6.7 matters when mixing or topping off the OEM coolant with non-OEM coolant as mixing incompatible coolants will cause problems.


There is absolutely NO REASON why someone couldn't drain, flush, and fill with Evans coolant with the 6.7L. It does not need to meet OEM coolant specs because it's not being mixed with the OEM coolant.


If you still don't believe me then do your own research and stop making assumptions.


I'm out, as I said this is my final post on this subject.

[67L48]

For 60 years it was little more than ethylene glycol and water. Over the last 10 years, there have been 4-5 new formulations, all of them seemingly incompatible with anything else. Yellow, orange, pink, and so on. Drax did a more thorough job above of walk though these. The coolant market is a complete mess.

Can you flush a system really well and then use whatever? Sure. I'd never do that. These fluids have become way too complex and I'll just stick with whatever is already in my engine. The risk/reward scenario doesn't seem worth it to me.

[ddeanb]

I am new to the diesel owners club. I have a Ram 2015 ecodiesel and tow a Rockwood that weighs in the neighborhood of 3,500. I notice that all my fluid temps remain right at the normal range, except the tranny. The gauge bar is above the normal range, and I recall the temps being 185 to shy of 200. Wondering what is the normal temp for a tranny and should I be concerned?

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by ddeanb

I am new to the diesel owners club. I have an ecodiesel and tow a Rockwood that weighs in the neighborhood of 3,500. I notice that all my fluid temps remain right at the normal range, except the tranny. The gauge bar is above the normal range, and I recall the temps being 185 to shy of 200. Wondering what is the normal temp for a tranny and should I be concerned?

Absolutely nothing wrong with those trans temps, well within normal. I wouldn't start to think about additional cooling unless you start seeing temps of 240F or higher on regular occasions, like if you do a lot of towing in the mountains, up long grades, where the trans fluid has a chance to heat up due to lower speeds, TCC unlocked, etc.


But 185-200F is totally normal.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Absolutely nothing wrong with those trans temps, well within normal. I wouldn't start to think about additional cooling unless you start seeing temps of 240F or higher on regular occasions, like if you do a lot of towing in the mountains, up long grades, where the trans fluid has a chance to heat up due to lower speeds, TCC unlocked, etc.


But 185-200F is totally normal.

X2 Normally saw that pulling our 36' Cherokee with a 2014 GMC Duramax Crew. 180 was about the highest I ever hit.

[SecretSquirrel]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

X2 Normally saw that pulling our 36' Cherokee with a 2014 GMC Duramax Crew. 180 was about the highest I ever hit.

Hmm, truck in sig shows 209 degrees F all the time unloaded at highway speed. Newer trucks running the tranny higher I guess.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by SecretSquirrel

Hmm, truck in sig shows 209 degrees F all the time unloaded at highway speed. Newer trucks running the tranny higher I guess.

Still not outside normal, though. Newer transmissions and synthetic fluid are able to withstand higher temps without issue and the higher temps may help with fuel economy somewhat due to the viscosity lowering at warmer temps.


Not sure what Ford has their hot trans temp warning set to, but most newer GM trucks don't warn about hot trans temps until around 270F.


Things have changed quite a bit from 20 years ago where transmissions were failing left and right if trans temps got much over 175F. The old rules/guidelines no longer apply.

[babock]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Still not outside normal, though. Newer transmissions and synthetic fluid are able to withstand higher temps without issue and the higher temps may help with fuel economy somewhat due to the viscosity lowering at warmer temps.


Not sure what Ford has their hot trans temp warning set to, but most newer GM trucks don't warn about hot trans temps until around 270F.


Things have changed quite a bit from 20 years ago where transmissions were failing left and right if trans temps got much over 175F. The old rules/guidelines no longer apply.

My 10 speed Ford ATF runs at 209° even on cold days because the thermostat in the transmission actually causes it to run at that temp as soon as possible. In fact, the service manual requires that temp to even make a correct level check.

[SecretSquirrel]

Originally Posted by babock

My 10 speed Ford ATF runs at 209° even on cold days because the thermostat in the transmission actually causes it to run at that temp as soon as possible. In fact, the service manual requires that temp to even make a correct level check.

Thanks Dieseldrax and Babock. Kind of thought as much. Yep, mine seems to get to 209 and stay there.

[TowPro]

And the trans cooler uses the radiator to cool the trans so if the truck runs at 195-205 so will your trans. And none of them come with a "calibrated temperature sensor"

[5picker]

Originally Posted by babock

My 10 speed Ford ATF runs at 209° even on cold days because the thermostat in the transmission actually causes it to run at that temp as soon as possible. In fact, the service manual requires that temp to even make a correct level check.

As does mine.
I see temps of 225º-230º when towing up 8-13% grades.

[babock]

Originally Posted by TowPro

And the trans cooler uses the radiator to cool the trans so if the truck runs at 195-205 so will your trans. And none of them come with a "calibrated temperature sensor"

Depends on the truck. For the latest F-150, the cooler mounted next to the transmission uses the engine coolant to warm the ATF and when it gets hotter, the air flowing over the heat exchanger cools it. The coolant lines used to warm up the ATF are not sourced at the radiator but come off the engine.

There is no transmission cooler inside the radiator anymore on these trucks.

Not what you mean by "calibrated" temp sensor. Most transmissions these days have temp sensors.