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07-25-2021, 08:42 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Hills of Northwestern PA
Posts: 2,282
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De-rate F150 Towing Capacity for elevation
Saw it referenced in an overheating TLLTruck Utube.
Confirmed in last three years F150 Owners Manuals.
Ford says to de-rate your F150 Towing Capacity by 2% per 1000 feet elevation above sea level.
It’s in the Towing section after the pro trailer backup instructions that kinda breaks the towing info in half. 2019 page 297, 2020 page 302, 2021 page 375.
I.e., towing through Denver, you lost 20% or more of your capacity. Another reason to avoid pushing towing limits.
__________________
2019 Cherokee Wolf Pup 16BHS flipped axle, 5K springs, 400AH LiFePO4, 3K inverter, 200W CIGS solar
2019 Ford F-150 S-Crew 5.5 bed V8 w/tow package, ITBC, Tow Mirrors, 3.55, SumoSprings, 7000# GVWR, 1990#CC
Husky Centerline TS WDH 400-600# spring bars
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07-25-2021, 08:59 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerweps
Saw it referenced in an overheating TLLTruck Utube.
Confirmed in last three years F150 Owners Manuals.
Ford says to de-rate your F150 Towing Capacity by 2% per 1000 feet elevation above sea level.
It’s in the Towing section after the pro trailer backup instructions that kinda breaks the towing info in half. 2019 page 297, 2020 page 302, 2021 page 375.
I.e., towing through Denver, you lost 20% or more of your capacity. Another reason to avoid pushing towing limits.
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Based on 2% loss per 1000' denver would put you at a 10% loss not 20. you'd have to be 10,000 ' to be at 20% loss which you hit going over passes etc but not there for long . So is this Just Fords lol
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07-25-2021, 09:05 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 3,567
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Another interesting note in the Ford towing document.
All data on the 150 was for trailers with a frontal area of less than 60 sq.ft. Thus all SAE ratings are not applicable on large frontal area trailers.
Not a fan of towing big trailers with a 150.
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07-25-2021, 11:23 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,412
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They should say you lose 2% pulling power to be more accurate. Since those of us with F150 rated to PULL 11,000lbs but I only TOW a 7700GVWR trailer I'm golden. Don't even waste any time worrying about payload that 2% is pulling power not payload.
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
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07-25-2021, 11:27 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkatb
Another interesting note in the Ford towing document.
All data on the 150 was for trailers with a frontal area of less than 60 sq.ft. Thus all SAE ratings are not applicable on large frontal area trailers.
Not a fan of towing big trailers with a 150.
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You should mention that 60Sq Ft also applies to 250-350 and even a 450 diesel dually. I guess we need to go back to tent camping or just pull a pop-up
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
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07-25-2021, 12:21 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 349
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Not worried about it for 20km every once in a while.
__________________
2017 F150 XLT 3.5l Eco Boost, SC, 8' Box, 4X4
Max Tow (10 speed, 3:73, 11,700lbs), HD Payload (2440lbs)
2015 Puma 253 FBS
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2000 Honda EX 400, Rad Rover 6 Plus
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07-25-2021, 12:29 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 3,567
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Actually the Ford document had a different frontal area for the hd trucks.
The point is, take these factory ratings with a grain of salt!
A lot of folks discover their light tow vehicles can be squirrely.
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07-25-2021, 12:30 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 4,515
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Mine does NOT say to derate the towing capacity. What it says:
Quote:
Note: For high altitude operation,
reduce the gross combined weight
by 2% per 1000 feet (300 meters)
starting at the 1000 foot (300
meter) elevation point.
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The trailer is only part of the combined weight.
-- Chuck
__________________
2006 Roo 23SS behind a 2017 Ford Expedition
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07-25-2021, 12:43 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 528
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Elevated Towing
My F 150 has a 5 L V8 gas engine. The truck is rated at 9,300# tow capacity. I tow a 7,400 # dry weight thru the California Sierra at up to 10,000 msl with no problem. The lower gears make the difference. You just can't go over the high mountains at your usual 70 mph.
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07-25-2021, 01:15 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 222
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Your truck's suspension, regardless of make and model, does not become weaker at higher elevations. As Mike134 noted this recommendation is about the pulling power of internal combustion engines being reduced. The power reduction is simply due to the lower oxygen concentrations that occur at higher elevations.
Either the engineers at Ford are overthinking this, or they have a bunch of CYA attorneys writing their manuals...or both. Next they'll be adding a statement about the F150 Lightning's pulling power being increased at higher elevation due to the thinner air reducing push back against the frontal end area.
__________________
2015 Wildcat Maxx 28' pushing a 2020 F350 6.7L
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07-25-2021, 01:16 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 228
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I like the guys at TFL but their testing has flaws. They were running that thing flat out up big hills and overheated it. Really?
Most of that Ike Gauntlet testing is done in the winter. Who is going to keep their truck pinned to the floor going up that hill during the winter? Shouldn't the test be run during summer at a normal towing speed?
When you design something often if not always you design to what is called the 95th percentile. Meaning your design will achieve 95% of the stated goals. If you didn't feel that meets customer needs then you have to design for goals say 5% above stated goals and hit 95th percentile there. Often that 5% over design costs more to add than 5% of cost. There is actually nothing that is 100% because nothing mankind can make is 100% reliable. Therefore I don't have an issue with Ford stating this in their tow ratings. Are Fords stated numbers always 5% higher then competitors? See where this is going???
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07-25-2021, 07:11 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 1,004
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Won't your tires explode @ 10,000 ft MSL if you are using regular air? Nitrogen is a must!
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Heritage Glen 290RL
GenY
1200W solar > 412 Ah LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II > Cerbo GX
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07-25-2021, 07:16 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.M
Based on 2% loss per 1000' denver would put you at a 10% loss not 20. you'd have to be 10,000 ' to be at 20% loss which you hit going over passes etc but not there for long . So is this Just Fords lol
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Supplemental Oxygen is usually recommended for breathing at >10,000 ft elevation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18
Won't your tires explode @ 10,000 ft MSL if you are using regular air? Nitrogen is a must!
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07-25-2021, 09:16 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Liberty Twp Ohio
Posts: 62
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I have an F150 Ecoboost pulling a Windjammer weighing approximately 8500 lbs. It didn't miss a beat going up I70 out of Denver over the mountains through the Eisenhower Tunnel running at 50 mph.
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07-25-2021, 09:55 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: In your dreams
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18
Won't your tires explode @ 10,000 ft MSL if you are using regular air? Nitrogen is a must!
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__________________
Past Tow vehicle but still own: 2017 Ford Expedition XLT EL factory tow package. Added towing mirrors, 10 ply tires on separate rims, sumo springs, larger rear sway bar.
Current tow vehicle: 2020 Ford F350 Lariat supercab
4x4. 7.3 gas. 4,400+lb payload capacity.
2021 Cherokee Greywolf 23MK
Equalizer 1,000lb WDH
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07-26-2021, 07:47 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,514
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SAE standards ( tow standards) are done in heat must be over 100 when testing. Other than just providing a standard for the consumer it really is meaningless. I am not sure how many of day to day consumers are ever going to put their vehicle thru the tow standard test. I know I will probably never start and stop my truck and trl on a 12% grade 5 times in 5 minutes in 100 heat then do it in reverse. Ever wonder why your your 3:55 or 3:73 doesn’t have the towing capacity of the 4:10 . It’s not that it couldn’t tow the same weight it’s because it wasn’t able to tow it in time allowed.
While I watch the IKE test and I didn’t realize that it was winter in most of them until mentioned. I wonder if that is because of when manufacturers release new model years and then being able to get all the trucks at the same time. Then if they waited until summer the info would be old as the next year models would be coming out in just a few months
__________________
2022 Chevy 3500 Diesel SWD
2022 Columbus 329 DVC
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07-26-2021, 09:28 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkatb
Another interesting note in the Ford towing document.
All data on the 150 was for trailers with a frontal area of less than 60 sq.ft. Thus all SAE ratings are not applicable on large frontal area trailers.
Not a fan of towing big trailers with a 150.
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How is frontal area measured? I have never seen a Ford document that lists how frontal area is determined. From the ground to the top of the trailer? Or from the bottom of the trailer box to the top? How much is subtracted for rounded corners like Airstream? Or pointed bows like boats? Ford's (and others, it's not just Ford) refusal to address the issue makes the limitation meaningless.
Fred W
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07-26-2021, 09:46 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgandw
How is frontal area measured? I have never seen a Ford document that lists how frontal area is determined. From the ground to the top of the trailer? Or from the bottom of the trailer box to the top? How much is subtracted for rounded corners like Airstream? Or pointed bows like boats? Ford's (and others, it's not just Ford) refusal to address the issue makes the limitation meaningless.
Fred W
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https://madocumentupload.marketingas...93e81&v5=False
page 18 will give a partial answer
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
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07-26-2021, 10:17 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike134
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Not really. Since no RV manufacturer I know of is going to sum up all the frontal areas - measure box, undercarriage, tires, air conditioning unit(s), all things sticking up above the roof, any mirrors, lift struts, etc., and multiply by the correct coefficient for each item, we have no true aerodynamic drag info. Since no sane owner is going to do the same, we are back to the same basic premise - that front wall box size is either over or under the TV's limits. And there are no allowances for streamlining in the Ford doc, which covers frontal area of truck only.
Which means the number for the effective frontal areas for boats and Airstream trailers are way off the mark. And the effect of the underbody sheet on many of the better TTs are ignored.
And the weight police wonder why TV limitations get ignored by so many?
My basic rule of thumb works better than all the above calcs - if you want to travel 75mph (top speed limit in most Western states, Texas has 80), and have a non-turbo V6, you can't have a full height TT with any power reserve.
Aerodynamic drag falls off with altitude, which is reflected in the noticeably better gas mileage, regardless of turbo.
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame (66" high folded)
2022 Kia Carnival with non-turbo V6
retired in one week, leaving Colorado
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07-26-2021, 10:30 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgandw
Not really. Since no RV manufacturer I know of is going to sum up all the frontal areas - measure box, undercarriage, tires, air conditioning unit(s), all things sticking up above the roof, any mirrors, lift struts, etc., and multiply by the correct coefficient for each item, we have no true aerodynamic drag info. Since no sane owner is going to do the same, we are back to the same basic premise - that front wall box size is either over or under the TV's limits. And there are no allowances for streamlining in the Ford doc, which covers frontal area of truck only.
Which means the number for the effective frontal areas for boats and Airstream trailers are way off the mark. And the effect of the underbody sheet on many of the better TTs are ignored.
And the weight police wonder why TV limitations get ignored by so many?
My basic rule of thumb works better than all the above calcs - if you want to travel 75mph (top speed limit in most Western states, Texas has 80), and have a non-turbo V6, you can't have a full height TT with any power reserve.
Aerodynamic drag falls off with altitude, which is reflected in the noticeably better gas mileage, regardless of turbo.
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame (66" high folded)
2022 Kia Carnival with non-turbo V6
retired in one week, leaving Colorado
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I thought it was straightforward. multiple the height times width of the trailer box and add 12.4 sq ft of surface area for the F150
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
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