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Old 07-12-2018, 05:40 PM   #41
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Diesels work with turbochargers better than gas engines for several reasons, one gas engines will detonate when boosted very much, gasoline is a faster burning fuel which is better suited to a shorter stroke, which equates to less torque, especially at low rpm, slower burning diesel fuel lends itself to longer strokes (more leverage on the crankshaft) more torque. There is also the fact that Diesels can run much leaner than stoichiometry which allows for more air to be used . There are many other factors, but you need to know these first. I have been in the business of working with both gas and Diesels for over 50 years, I have super charged and turbocharged both engine types for race cars and big rig engines. I still do the work today in my home shop for select customers. You don’t need a 13 liter to make comparison, you can do it with light duty engine market which mostly applies to these forums anyway. It has nothing to do with sleeping but it has everything to do with knowledge.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:37 PM   #42
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Diesels work with turbochargers better than gas engines for several reasons, one gas engines will detonate when boosted very much, gasoline is a faster burning fuel which is better suited to a shorter stroke, which equates to less torque, especially at low rpm, slower burning diesel fuel lends itself to longer strokes (more leverage on the crankshaft) more torque. There is also the fact that Diesels can run much leaner than stoichiometry which allows for more air to be used . There are many other factors, but you need to know these first. I have been in the business of working with both gas and Diesels for over 50 years, I have super charged and turbocharged both engine types for race cars and big rig engines. I still do the work today in my home shop for select customers. You donít need a 13 liter to make comparison, you can do it with light duty engine market which mostly applies to these forums anyway. It has nothing to do with sleeping but it has everything to do with knowledge.

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Old 07-12-2018, 07:14 PM   #43
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All I know is, I used to have a Nissan titan and got 8 mpg pulling my travel trailer. That same Titan got me 14 mpg not pulling anything around town. I could only hope of 18 mpg on the hwy.

I went and bought a Ram Eco Diesel that got 14 mpg pulling the exact same travel trailer. I got 23 mpg in town, and damn near 30 mpg when not towing anything. I believe the 8 speed transmission was a key factor to towing as the truck seems to have more gears to pick from when going up hill. Seems effortless compared to my gasser.

Liked it so much I picked up the Jeep Grand Cherokee eco diesel for the wife. Her car goes almost 700 miles on a tank of diesel. Not a bad tow vehicle for my boat either. I only wish they had continued to make them so I would have a new vehicle to trade these for when the time comes.

I am happy to have a diesel that has a turning radius and works as a daily driver (better mileage then my cars, 07 Cadillac XLRV, and 69 Mustang) Still have the ability to tow my under 8000 lb travel trailer with ease. Have been able to travel all around the country and enjoy my travel trailer. Very happy with it.

Ram 1500 has 78K miles
Jeep has 47K miles
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:58 AM   #44
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Diesels work with turbochargers better than gas engines for several reasons, one gas engines will detonate when boosted very much, gasoline is a faster burning fuel which is better suited to a shorter stroke, which equates to less torque, especially at low rpm, slower burning diesel fuel lends itself to longer strokes (more leverage on the crankshaft) more torque. There is also the fact that Diesels can run much leaner than stoichiometry which allows for more air to be used . There are many other factors, but you need to know these first. I have been in the business of working with both gas and Diesels for over 50 years, I have super charged and turbocharged both engine types for race cars and big rig engines. I still do the work today in my home shop for select customers. You donít need a 13 liter to make comparison, you can do it with light duty engine market which mostly applies to these forums anyway. It has nothing to do with sleeping but it has everything to do with knowledge.

Really, then why is it that the OP merely stated his thoughts on going from Diesel to gas and right away the oil burner folks just had to jump in to tell him how wrong he is. Honestly it seems to be to the point anyone with a gasser is scared to talk about his tv cause there will be a dozen diesel owners telling him he needs to get rid of it. It is not rocket science that diesels make more torque and power and given that the diesel folks on here have pounded it into everyone who will listen heads, we get it. So why can't the oil burner folks cut the BS and not hijack every thread that has anything to do with a gas engined TV. Oil burner owners do not know the reasons why some people choose to use a gasser but it sure is easy to spend other peoples money.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:22 AM   #45
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The reason is to explain the facts without unnecessary comments from people who donít know what they are talking about and say things about ones comfort or sleep when they have no place in this or any other forum.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:45 AM   #46
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As long as whatever you drive get's your camper where you want it and you are satisfied with it, the fuel you use to get there doesn't matter. It's all about personal preference.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:14 AM   #47
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Whatever engine type works for you is the best one. I like my diesel, but there are plenty of people who love their gassers. Like RVs and pretty much everything else in life, there are trade-offs with whatever you choose.

I'm glad you enjoy your new truck and I wish you good luck with it!
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:50 AM   #48
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That is true. The offering of information and facts can also influence preferences.
Its not about one against the other as it often assumed. Using these forums is supposed be a way to gain facts and knowledge of others for free. In order to best use this system in needs to be free of smart aleck comments.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #49
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As long as whatever you drive get's your camper where you want it and you are satisfied with it, the fuel you use to get there doesn't matter. It's all about personal preference.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:55 AM   #50
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That must be why the big rigs use gas engines. Maybe you should see how much torque gas engines puts out at 1400 rpm then you could better understand the difference.
There is nothing that says you have to run at 1400 rpm but anyway you missed 1/2 my point. And about leaner fuel ratios. Gas motors could do this as well except they don't meet emission. Honda had some great high efficiency lean burn designs that are no longer allowed because NOx emissions go through the roof. High NOx numbers that are allowed on even the latest crop of diesels. Diesels, have been hands off for much longer by the emission police. Now we are seeing gas motors with direct injection and better head and piston designs that can take big boost on unleaded without problems. If you held emission standards exactly the same on a gas and a diesel you would see a smaller benefit with the diesel, and I do think ultimately this will be the case. I personally think the EPA standards are excessive for both gas and diesel, but gas has had the heavy hand longer and is making better gains at dealing with it. Diesel is just starting to have their growing pains with emissions.

I have a Cummins, I get the advantages, but I also understand basic physics, aerodynamics, and thermal efficiency. There is nothing magic about having a few more ingredients in your unleaded to make it diesel.

The real best apples to apples gas to diesel comparison is in the Titan XD. TFL truck has done a bunch of videos comparing these, but you would think the at least the diesel would beat the gas towing a big load up a steep hill. It didn't.

pulling a trailer up a hill in a timed fashion is work over time, it is a purely a reflection of horsepower. Yes the gas uses more fuel, but it is making more horsepower and getting the job done quicker.

All of these modern motors will get the job done. Heck my grandpa used to get the job done pulling a big 5th wheel across the country with a 120 hp, 223 ft-lbs of torque, six cylinder gas motor and his F250. Today the same roads and similar trailer need 800+ ft-lbs to hear some people describe it.

I like them all, old and new, gas and diesel. I even like my first heavy hauler with 250,000 horsepower and 200,000 pounds that never needed gas or diesel and produced zero emissions. Camping with 5000+ people sucked though.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:54 PM   #51
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I would like to see a similar comparison driving the diesel at the same speed as the gas. I have a 2016 F350 6.7 diesel. Slowing down from 65 to 60 can raise my mileage from 10 to 13 mpg - that's 30%. Planning a trip from Indiana to CA, visiting lots of national parks this fall. Saving 30% on my fuel costs is a really interesting!
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:11 PM   #52
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Having driven both diesels and gasses in the Army I had an appreciation for diesels. Since I knew I was not going to be buying anything really big I picked up a used 2013 VW Touareg TDI (300HP, 406FtLbs of torque and rated to pull 7700) when the dealers were selling the for next to nothing. I bought a Mini Lite 1909S that's 3500 dry. On flat interstate at 65 MPH it's running at 1700 RPM and getting 18-20 MPG. When I'm not towing it gets 32 MPG at 75 MPH. I can crusie 750 miles on one tank (100 Liter, 26 Gals).
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:38 AM   #53
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Drove gasser Motor Homes for years in Colorado. Moved to a diesel pickup when we changed to Fifth Wheel. I think it's important to look at the vintage of what we are comparing. The gassers of mid 2000's basically couldn't hold up to the diesels of the same vintage. Power was off, and mileage was horrible. The only advantage was initial cost. Today the gassers are vastly improved over what they used to be. The diesels are so insanely priced it's hard to cross that bridge for many. I live in Colorado and usually can't go anywhere without a major mountain pass in my way. I would stick with the diesel because of that. If you dwell at sea level the gassers would be more than adequate. Depends on where you intend to run and what you intend to tow. Remember the diesels are also usually coupled to a heavier duty tranny that makes pulling easier and more efficient. It really comes down to what works for you, what you're willing to accept performance wise, and how much moola you got.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:13 AM   #54
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I would like to see a similar comparison driving the diesel at the same speed as the gas. I have a 2016 F350 6.7 diesel. Slowing down from 65 to 60 can raise my mileage from 10 to 13 mpg - that's 30%. Planning a trip from Indiana to CA, visiting lots of national parks this fall. Saving 30% on my fuel costs is a really interesting!
I have a 2015 Chevy 2500HD gasser with the 6.0L gas engine and 4.10 rear end.

On my recent seven week trip from Arizona to South Dakota and every state in between I did a little experiment on the way back from Denver to Yuma and kept my speed at 65 MPH, as I typically go 70 MPH when hauling my 9900 pound 5'ver.

At 70 MPH I typically get between 5 - 7 MPG when towing...

At 65 MPH I was getting between 6 - 8 MPG with the 5'ver in tow...

A little better keeping it slower...but not that much!

(photos from the last two days of that journey)
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:46 AM   #55
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Drove gasser Motor Homes for years in Colorado. Moved to a diesel pickup when we changed to Fifth Wheel. I think it's important to look at the vintage of what we are comparing. The gassers of mid 2000's basically couldn't hold up to the diesels of the same vintage. Power was off, and mileage was horrible. The only advantage was initial cost. Today the gassers are vastly improved over what they used to be. The diesels are so insanely priced it's hard to cross that bridge for many. I live in Colorado and usually can't go anywhere without a major mountain pass in my way. I would stick with the diesel because of that. If you dwell at sea level the gassers would be more than adequate. Depends on where you intend to run and what you intend to tow. Remember the diesels are also usually coupled to a heavier duty tranny that makes pulling easier and more efficient. It really comes down to what works for you, what you're willing to accept performance wise, and how much moola you got.
It does not have to be about money! If you can accept not buying a new truck, but a good low mileage used vehicle you can save a ton of money and still get the diesel.

Last November I purchased an 08 Silverado 2500HD LTZ, Duramax/Allison with only 92500 on the clock for $22,000.

That is about 1/3 of what a new vehicle similarly equipped would have cost me. OK, some of the electronic bells and whistles on the newer trucks are not in this one but for a Pulling Machine it is precisely what I Needed!

I could not see spending an extra $44,000 when this vehicle, properly maintained, will easily last 500,000 miles. For me it was a no brainer. The vehicles are out there, you just can't get in a rush and must take your time to look until you find what you want.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:03 AM   #56
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Thanks to the OP on the comparison. I do wonder what it would be like to compare a new diesel with a new gasser? However, for now I'm using gas.

Just to chip in on the gas side, my RAM 3500 SRW has the 6.4 L Hemi. I've used it to pull my 2015 Windjammer 3001 somewhere between 25-30K miles. Trips include a good number of cross-country journeys east and west. It doesn't get the same level of MPG that a diesel would, but good enough. I get almost 9 MPG driving between 70-75 mph on the interstates (I'm using load range E tires on the camper, so still a tire-safe speed).

I will be the first to admit that MPG goes down when I'm pulling up a long grade. The hill out of Denver on I-70 is a good example. The motor has all the power it needs to accelerate up the hill, but the mileage is ghastly (small pun) if I do. I normally chose the middle ground on those long hills, keeping speed in the 45-55 mph range. The Tow/Haul mode manages the transmission well enough for engine braking going down the other side of the mountains, even with a gas engine.

For the shorter hills in the Appalachians, I try to keep the speed in the 60-65 mph range going uphill. On a trip in June, from central Texas to Kentucky, Niagara Falls, Boston, Acadia NP, Shenandoah NP, and Smokey Mtns NP. I drove interstate speed limits, which were 65-75, depending on the state. Total mileage for the trip was 8.9 MPG. Plenty of power for all the hills offered.

As others have said, there are times when a diesel is better, but there are times when gas is more than good enough. As someone else said, the key is what works for you.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:40 AM   #57
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I will be the first to admit that MPG goes down when I'm pulling up a long grade.

The hill out of Denver on I-70 is a good example.
That hill is called 'Floyd Hill'...or as I have always called it 'The Truck Killer'!

Earlier this year I sold my house and gave or threw away almost everything I owned and left Denver after a 26 year run there.

Too much traffic!

Anyway, almost every single time I would drive up Floyd Hill there was at least one truck and RV or motorhome (or more) sitting along the side of westbound I-70 with the hood up and a large puddle under the engine compartment, or the typical 1990's to mid-2000's Dodge Ram with the driveshaft dropped from the front or the back...diesel or gasser on the Dodge's.

Which is why I dubbed it 'The Truck Killer'!

I had a 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 5.9L Magnum V8 (my most favorite vehicle I've ever owned and wish I still had) to tow my two TT's and whenever I tried to go up that thing I could barely keep 40 MPH (and that was using the 4WD as assist)...and if someone blocked me or made me loose my momentum...20 MPH was the best I could do for the rest of the climb.

Here is a secret...

Next time heading west, get off of I-70 at the Hwy 58 exit and go through Golden to HWY 6, then take that up Clear Creek Canyon to Idaho Springs where it hooks back up to I-70...this will bypass 'The Truck Killer', is a much more scenic and comfortable drive, and maybe adds 15-20 minutes tops to the drive, if that!

And lets not forget a little west of there...the Eisenhower Tunnel and Vail Passes...both of those I would pull over at the top and open the hood to let the old Dodge cool down!

My replacement truck, a 2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L with 4.10 rear end, on the other hand, pulled the second of my two TT's and my current 5'ver up all three of those passes like they aren't even in tow, although I still would usually take the Hwy 58 bypass anyway.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:59 PM   #58
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. . . . . . .



Next time heading west, get off of I-70 at the Hwy 58 exit and go through Golden to HWY 6, then take that up Clear Creek Canyon to Idaho Springs where it hooks back up to I-70...this will bypass 'The Truck Killer', is a much more scenic and comfortable drive, and maybe adds 15-20 minutes tops to the drive, if that!


. . . . . .


Excellent thinking. We pull 8500# 5'er with the 2015 2500 HD 6.0L 4.10 SRW. We are pretty happy until we get on an interstate that goes straight up to the top and down the other side. 8% grades take us down to 2nd gear and 4000 rpm. It works but is not so pleasant.

Older roads wind through the valleys and have fewer long steep pulls and better views. They are peaceful and include some interesting small towns. We stick to them even if it means an extra hour or fewer miles in a day. We recently did 8 weeks in NV, UT, and CO and were on four-lane interstates for only about 50 miles of that 3600 mile trip. It was relaxing and fun.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:42 PM   #59
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Gray area; weight and frontal area

Several posts mentioned towing up to 11,000# with something like a GM 6.0L gas motor. At least one was a conventional trailer. I tow a 13' tall 5'er and want to suggest that moving that much air while pulling an 8% grade makes the TV's job much harder than if the same weight was only 10 feet tall.

While I'm happy with the 2015 2500HD 4.10 SRW crew cab pulling my 13' tall 30' "ultralight" (rated 9,000# though I only load it to 8500#), I'd say I'm pushing the limits of this truck comfort-wise. I avoid the wide interstates that go head long up the mountains at 8% when I can.

What I'm saying is that trailer weight is one issue with choosing a TV. Frontal area of the trailer is another. Both are important in choosing a TV. So is your target terrain.

11,000# and tall = diesel
11,000# and short = gas
9,000# and tall = gas (though marginal)
9,000# and short = gas (no problem).

Of course, mountainous travels in the west are more onerous and suggest leaning toward the diesel. Flatter regions lean toward gas.

The diesel advantage is primarily that they do better at altitude than naturally aspirated gas.

BTW, the 6.0L Vortec in the 2500 HD trucks is antiquated. I can't wait for one with direct injection, variable valve timing, and an 8-speed. That seems to 2020 at the earliest. I'll upgrade when that happens.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:09 PM   #60
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Great post very informative...I just wonder how much difference there would have been in your comparison between your 2004 diesel vs a 2016 or newer diesel..Should you have went that route ?

Are the new diesels leaps and bounds better then ones 14-15 years old ? I'm sure the gasser's are from what I have been reading here on the forum.
I was wondering the same thing, but still, his apples to apples comparison was pretty good. I drive a ‘17 F350 6.7L diesel. Pulling a 9,000 rig, it gets about 9-11 depending on conditions. It only has 5k miles on it so still not really broke in either.
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