Do all dealers just give out bad towing information?

[Underthedog]

If you happen to buy through a show, many of the 'reps' will have been dragooned from service, janitorial, lawn care, etc to provide coverage. They are there to guide you to a salesperson an give quite suspect answers while waiting to do so.


We did buy our last trailer at a show through a service rep that we had found to be truthful, which really p'd off the sale staff there since he got the commission...

[Bob2019]

My first TT was a 23' 1989 Starcraft. That beast was heavy, but I was a newbe. Dealer said I was good to go hitching to a ball on the back of my truck. Left dealer and on highway, it was the most scary experience ever. So much weight on back of truck and little on front wheels. I turned around at the first U turn and back to the dealer. Need a weight distributing hitch was told. Then I noticed the former owners had one before from the paint outline on the A frame. Dealer reaches in a bin and pulls out the same color painted WDH he pulled from the trailer for more dollars. What an a$%@$#e. Also discovered truck has a 3.08 set of gears. Could only pull in 3rd gear. Another dealer lies about towing a trailer. What a disaster.

Second TT purchased years later the 7 wire plug in was too short to connect to truck - kept pulling out on the way home so it just dragged on the road when it was getting dark - no light or brakes. These dealers should not be in business as they don't gave a damn about safety. Of the last three trucks I have owned, none had the yellow info sticker on the door. At least now with forums and truck info, you can research and become knowledgeable on what goes with what to avoid the experiences I have had.

[ppine]

Salesmen tell you what you want to hear.

[pgandw]

Robert's RV Sales and Rentals in Denver has never led me astray. When I went to move my E2 to my new A-frame after the PDI, my salesman admitted he knew nothing about WDHs. Since they mainly rent out pop-ups, they rarely come across a WDH.

Other Denver dealers asked about the tongue weight limits as well as the tow capacity of my minivan before they would discuss a sale. And they would check my figures online before talking sales.

All the U-Haul dealers I have rented from (and their on-line unit) verify tongue weight limits as well as tow capacity, and make sure you know how not to exceed those limits.

On my first visit to a dealer, I usually ask a technical question that I already know the answer to as a salesman BS detector. If the salesman argues with me, I go somewhere else. If he doesn't know but tries to find out, I will usually stick with him/her. I've found in general female sales people to be more interested in helping you get what you want than many males, but they tend to be dissed and mistreated by old time sales managers.

Saying "all dealers ....." is always asking to find the exception. And there are exceptions out there.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[Theo]

Originally Posted by rsdata

It is indeed rare when I purchase an appliance, a vehicle, a trailer, ETC... that I do not know more about the item purchased then the salesperson... because I do some research...{snip}

Nugget of gold right there, rsdata! Caveat Emptor.

There are many wise folks who can point you to the proper resources for gaining knowledge needed to make a safe decision when paring a TT with a TV. To not avail yourself of the published wisdom is just an abdication of a personal responsibility for safety: for you, your family, and those traveling around you.

Why leave critical safety decisions to those who are primarily motivated by financial reward?

[Theo]

Originally Posted by pgandw

{snip}...Saying "all dealers ....." is always asking to find the exception. And there are exceptions out there.

Indeed! After visiting 3 or 4 RV dealers () when purchasing our TT, we followed-up with a salesperson recommended by an acquaintance.

We waited outside his office as he was working with another customer and could hear the conversation he was having. At one point, the salesperson was diplomatically trying to steer the customer away from the original TT (5th wheel?) and into something else. Finally, we heard the salesperson say, "I'm sorry, but I can't sell you that trailer. You can't possibly tow it safely with your 1500."

"That's our salesperson!", I said to Carol.

[PapiG]

I agree, there is far too little information about tongue weight in sales literature or discussions. I am currently shopping and NO ONE has said a word about tongue weights....

I made a major mistake in the past, not again. I bought a unit that was within my tongue weight capacity (stared in sales literature) but had no idea that did not include LP, Battery, Electric jack, 2nd propane tank or weight distribution hitch.....

I was far over weight in the tongue as I towed.

Originally Posted by rsdata

It is indeed rare when I purchase an appliance, a vehicle, a trailer, ETC... that I do not know more about the item purchased then the salesperson... because I do some research.

If I do find a salesperson that can enlighten me.. HOMESTLY enlighten me, then I usually give them my business.

If I MUST deal with someone that gives me a bunch of BS, then I will only purchase from them if they give me the best price.

[PhilFromMaine]

Originally Posted by dm6

I understand that a RV dealer just wants to sell an RV and an auto dealer just wants to sell a vehicle. That being said, every RV dealer I have talked to and most truck dealers all say "you can tow that with a half ton". And when I mention payload, they say "the big concern is the towing capacity of the truck, not the payload". And then when I mention "yeah, but the tongue weight gets added to the payload" they stop and think for a second and say "oh yeah, I guess that is true." Do they really not know, or do they just think it is not important or just trying to sell an RV? I know selling is their top concern, but I wonder how many times that misinformation comes back to cause an accident or cause a buyer to need to upgrade their truck.

And herein lies the problem with the commission system.

[JRogers984]

C Y A
Some are great, some not so.
Like most things, you got to do a little work yourself.

Still a lot of it is the owner wanting more than he is packet book will cover.

[KempHowland]

A few months ago I sold my Class A and ordered a Freedom Ultra-Lite 248RBS. Dry weight is about 5,500 and max weight is 7500 pounds. Tongue weight is roughly 10% of the trailer weight if loaded properly. Went to the Ford dealer to see about a proper truck. Amazed at the lack of knowledge! But I did learn that Ford supplies its salespeople with an app that they can use to reveal the payload and towing capacity on any late-model Ford truck by simply scanning in the VIN. The truck they wanted to sell me had a payload of 1075 pounds and a towing capacity of 7460 pounds. Woefully inadequate. So we went from truck to truck until I found one with a 1,680 payload and 12,800 tow capacity. I bought it, and I am very pleased with it and the way it handles my trailer. I'm sure GM and RAM dealers have a similar app or another similar diagnostic tool. Dealers simply don't know what they don't know. The salesperson was actually tickled to learn how his 'app' could help him get buyers into the right truck for their purposes.

[jfspry]

Surprisingly, when we bought our current 5er (not FR), one of the first questions asked by the sales rep was “What kind of TV do you have?” Later he would even research answers to my questions then call me back. He was excellent. Too bad we can’t clone him!

[Bob2019]

Sure wish an app like that was out when I bought my last 2 TT. I hope those apps will be open to the public and a buyer could walk around and scan vehicles to find one themselves.

When I bought TTs, there'd was no talk about if truck is matched to TT load. It was from a salesperson "Ya, that truck will pull that". Worst, both of my last trucks had no yellow stickers on CCC or anything. Apps and yellow stickers will help a lot to know if a match is correct.

[Larry L]

I was looking at a 5400# 24 foot TT at the Tampa show which had a 800# hitch weight. The sales rep phoned the manufacture to confirm the hitch weight because it was so high. Another salesman said the WDH would remove that weight so it was not a concern.

[seasure1]

Worked for a short time at a large Chevy dealership.
They only took one salesman to be the "truck expert"

He went to the factory and all kinds of training.

If you were there on the right day he was the man to answer all your questions.

If you were there on the wrong day, well you know how that goes!

[Bhrava]

The #1 thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that the one and only person responsible for the hooked up, on the road trailer is the person behind the wheel. Salesman sells you the wrong trailer or truck, they walk away from it the moment it leaves the lot, it's all on the driver.

IOW Do not rely on a salesperson to sell you the proper vehicle. It is your neck on the line, so do your research. Coming to the Forums is a good start. Understanding how things like WDH work, how payload is more important over towing capacity, and how to determine a proper setup can save you a LOT of headaches.

The one thing to keep in mind about tow guides, they do not factor in trim levels and options. They only go by gear ratios and cab style/wheelbase per engine. The most important part is the Properly Equipped portion. You need to understand what Properly Equipped means in order to determine the exact limits of the truck.

Some dealers understand this, most do not. It is rare to find an RV dealer that would know a Properly Equipped per manufacturer truck unless they themselves also sell trucks of various makes, there are a few of them around, but not many.

If you go to a dealer and they give you a blank look when you ask what the payload is on a truck, run, don't walk away, since you won't get the proper truck you need.

Then there is the old saying that still holds true to today, Trust, but VERIFY! On Ford it is easy to determine a good tow vehicle. 3.5 EB with a Max Tow package. Right on the sticker, then open the drivers door nd check the capacity tag. Anything over 1800 pounds is good for most trailers, since Max Tow tops out at 1320 for tongue weight. I don't know what packages RAM and GM use for their heaviest towing, but it would be similar. If it is used and no window sticker, crawl under and look at the receiver, the max weights are listed, and check the Capacity sticker.

Want to know the curb weight, just subtract the payload from the GVWR.

Forget towing capacity, and dry weight when shopping, because with travel trailers both are meaningless. Are you going to be driving around with a completely empty trailer? Once, maybe twice in the time you own it will it ever be empty!

Towing Capacity is GCWR minus the trucks weight. Just like with the trailer, Curb weight when it left the factory wont be actual weight when you are using it. There are all sorts of storage areas that get filled with "stuff" and you all know that is true. You don't know what the passengers will weigh, or how many will be with while traveling on every trip, so you need to factor that in as well. But, with these things in mind, you can get a basic idea of what a truck can handle.. You need to know these things when shopping, a sales person wont, and frankly doesn't care either. With few exceptions, all they care about is moving product.

If you find a salesperson who asks simple questions like this, stick with them, if they try to sell you a blinged out truck and tell you it can tow the maximum, walk away.

Same with the RV dealers, if they say the truck can tow a 10,000# travel trailer, but don't ask about payload, walk away.

Just remember who is ultimately responsible for towing, YOU!

[jeporter99]

I had a nice experience recently buying a 16,800lb GVWR 5th wheel at LazyDays Tampa. Before the salesman would even discuss potential models (even tho we already knew what we wanted) he questioned us on our tow vehicle. Seeing as it is a RAM 3500 dually (we had done our research in that area also) we told him it wouldn't be an issue. Nevertheless we walked out to the truck so that he could read the sticker. He looked, wrote down the numbers, and we proceeded to do the deal.

I liked it.

Jp

PS: Ignore the signature, I haven't updated. It's now a 2021 Solitude 385GK/R pulled by a 2020 RAM 3500 Dually w/air suspension.

[Bunker]

i saw a Tundra tow a Space shuttle!!

[Bhrava]

I saw an electric F150 tow a million pounds of rail cars.

[robo44]

If you have had great luck and support from your dealer in your area then bravo!
You reach out hold on to them and never let go and keep supporting them until you stop RVing. They are a rare bird.
I am sure there are many RV Dealers who take pride in Service and Support. Not my case with the dealers I have dealt with. Ive bought 3 from different dealers.
I've visited dozens and talked to people who have done business.

Case in point. Major RV Dealer in SoCal sells RVs by the dozens a week. Had my walk through, they literally pulled a kid off the floor job was to clean the RVs. When we got to the RV he handed us the RV Manual apologized and said "I've never done this before, read this and you'll have more info than I would." "any questions?"
Want more? Same dealer installed solar on my rig, wired the solar panels with 12awg wire to the controller. that was mounted inside the rig on the wall at shin level
I kid you not, how can you read the solar charge controller at shin level and felt ok with 12awg I have more if you want but Id be beating a dead horse.

[clarkbre]

Bhrava hit the nail on the head in Post #35. It is ultimately up to the owner(s) to educate themselves on if their truck, trailer and WDH are a good match.

One of my major frustrations is seeing interactions between newbies asking questions and other forum members and Facebook group members being very short or rude. If a person has arrived at these groups seeking information, I would encourage people to go out of their way to help educate and share resources for that person. So often I see short, and somewhat rude, answers attempting to show superiority; however, the member just looks like an A-hole.

For the new shopper, I always push the following 3 resources. While they may not be perfect, they do at least educate definitions of weight ratings, how they work together, how a WDH works and why it's important and the calculator can help get that person in the ballpark to help self answer "What can I tow"?

Video: PAYLOAD PROBLEMS: HOW MUCH CAN I (REALLY) TOW? RV Truck & Trailer
Video: Weight distribution hitches explained
Calculator: Tow Calculator