Double up 5th wheel lube plates to help bucking

[Odyknuck]

As the thread title state's, I am curious if putting 2 plates on will help bucking. There is at least a 3/8 to 7/16" gap between the king pin and hitch jaws on my RV. a second plate would take up the slop and help keep the RV from bouncing up and down on the King Pin.

[Oldboy]

I'm curious to...

[zs325RES]

It might - but you are running some really rough roads if your pinbox is bouncing on and off your hitch ...

[Odyknuck]

It is happening on your typical highway. In this case I90. What I noticed is it started when I dropped the 5th wheel hitch a notch to level out the RV.

[Jim34RL]

That seems like an excessive amount of clearance between the King Pin and the top of your hitch, something could be wrong with your set up. With my set up for my King Pin Box and hitch, my clearance is maybe a 1/16" to 1/8" max.

I would be afraid of the KING PIN would not engaged correctly in the jaws of your hitch, if two lube plates were used.

I would look in to a TRAILAIR KING PIN BOX or something similar for your 5th wheel to help in the bouncing of your 5er! This was a 95% improvement with my former trailer when it had just a straight king pin box in bouncing. When I purchased my Cedar Creek I paid extra for the TrailAir King Pin Box, I would not tow a 5th wheel trailer without one or something similar.

[Odyknuck]

What is the difference between the OEM box on my 2017 and the TRAILAIR KING PIN BOX.

[dalford]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

That seems like an excessive amount of clearance between the King Pin and the top of your hitch, something could be wrong with your set up. With my set up for my King Pin Box and hitch, my clearance is maybe a 1/16" to 1/8" max.

I would be afraid of the KING PIN would not engaged correctly in the jaws of your hitch, if two lube plates were used.

I would look in to a TRAILAIR KING PIN BOX or something similar for your 5th wheel to help in the bouncing of your 5er! This was a 95% improvement with my former trailer when it had just a straight king pin box in bouncing. When I purchased my Cedar Creek I paid extra for the TrailAir King Pin Box, I would not tow a 5th wheel trailer without one or something similar.

I think and could be wrong but I think the OP said between his king pin and jaws, not the hitch plate. So when the king pin is locked in laws there is the gap below the jaws and the king pin retaining ring.

On the subject of jostled, I thought was Forward and back, not up and down.

[dalford]

Originally Posted by Odyknuck

It is happening on your typical highway. In this case I90. What I noticed is it started when I dropped the 5th wheel hitch a notch to level out the RV.

So it is bouncing up and down? My kingpin weight is 3000 lbs. never noticed it bounce up/down.

[Telstar]

I have a TrailAir king pin with air bag and shock, no bounce.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by Odyknuck

What is the difference between the OEM box on my 2017 and the TRAILAIR KING PIN BOX.

The Trailair has a built in air bag cushion.

[Odyknuck]

Yes Dalford that is correct. I am new to pulling a 5th wheel toy hauler so I have no empirical data to pull from. What I am feeling is for lack of a better term is a high frequency jerky hammering feeling going down the road. I also notice slack in the hitch pulling up to or away from a light. hitch is a fairly new Curt Q20. to reiterate I did not have this before I brought the front of the RV down to a level position. Note that I recently have taken it to a CAT scale several times with different weight biasing for the original issue of sway down the road. With the Can am X3 SxS loaded my pin weight was only 1740# (12.6%). After some weight biasing I am now at 1940# (14.2%) pin weight. With X3 unloaded I am at 2560 #s (22.57%) By all standards the loaded Toy Hauler is still under the 20% standard.

[dalford]

Originally Posted by Odyknuck

Yes Dalford that is correct. I am new to pulling a 5th wheel toy hauler so I have no empirical data to pull from. What I am feeling is for lack of a better term is a high frequency jerky hammering feeling going down the road. I also notice slack in the hitch pulling up to or away from a light. hitch is a fairly new Curt Q20. to reiterate I did not have this before I brought the front of the RV down to a level position. Note that I recently have taken it to a CAT scale several times with different weight biasing for the original issue of sway down the road. With the Can am X3 SxS loaded my pin weight was only 1740# (12.6%). After some weight biasing I am now at 1940# (14.2%) pin weight. With X3 unloaded I am at 2560 #s (22.57%) By all standards the loaded Toy Hauler is still under the 20% standard.

I’m trying to figure out why dropping the 5th wheel hitch would matter but it obviously has changed the towing dynamics. I can only assume the pin angle in the jaws is a little different more aligned straight up and down thru the jaw opening versus at some angle thru the jaws which could? Give it more play?

Give it a try, add another lube plate, they are cheap and if it does not help you have a spare.

Just make sure your pin is secure by inspecting the closed jaws with a flashlight to ensure the pin is not high hitched.

I have the TrailAir Pinbox and now an Andersen Ultimate hitch so I have no chuckling. Before I had a Reese Manual Slider and had no,chuckling, especially just driving the highway. Maybe on occasion with quick stop or accelerating but not constant. The TrailAir has a airbag that absorbs the bounce. Not sure it would stop the slop in the pin/jaw.

Make sure the jaw is closing tight around the pin also... let us know how 2 lube plates work out for you..

[Villagerjjm]

If you are experiencing “porpoising” due to the construction of the road, my experience is that there is not too much you can do about it other than swear in stutter.

[Odyknuck]

Originally Posted by dalford

I’m trying to figure out why dropping the 5th wheel hitch would matter but it obviously has changed the towing dynamics. I can only assume the pin angle in the jaws is a little different more aligned straight up and down thru the jaw opening versus at some angle thru the jaws which could? Give it more play?

Give it a try, add another lube plate, they are cheap and if it does not help you have a spare.

Just make sure your pin is secure by inspecting the closed jaws with a flashlight to ensure the pin is not high hitched.

I have the TrailAir Pinbox and now an Andersen Ultimate hitch so I have no chuckling. Before I had a Reese Manual Slider and had no,chuckling, especially just driving the highway. Maybe on occasion with quick stop or accelerating but not constant. The TrailAir has a airbag that absorbs the bounce. Not sure it would stop the slop in the pin/jaw.

Make sure the jaw is closing tight around the pin also... let us know how 2 lube plates work out for you..

I have another plate on order and will be trying it. Worse cause , I have a spare.

[BM Welder]

My first hitch was a solid mount. After a lot of miserable towing I bought a Trailer Saver hitch. It was expensive but to me it's been worth every penny.

[Odyknuck]

The Curt Q20 Hitch has internal rubber to absorb vibration and rough road conditions. Just starting out with a 5th and real do not want to drop another 3K into Pin box that may or may not solve the issue. I have read that the air bag/shock pin boxes do and they don't solve the issues.

[NMWildcat]

You should be able to tell if your kingpin is actually moving up and down in the truck hitch by examining the wear marks on the pin itself. Unless your pin weight is severely off, it is doubtful.
Every kingpin will have space between the bottom of the jaws and the bottom lip of the kingpin. I've never seen one that doesn't.
It's hard to determine what you are actually feeling as you describe sway, then porpoising, then back and forth chucking. Maybe find an experienced friend to help you determine what is going on?

[dalford]

Originally Posted by Odyknuck

I have another plate on order and will be trying it. Worse cause , I have a spare.

I was looking at the Curt installed manual and I noticed this in the coupling section...

CouplIng
If you are using a Lube Plate on the trailer kingpin, you are ready to couple the trailer to the 5th Wheel. (Up to (2) 3/16" thickness Lube Plates may be used).

It is ok with Curt to use 2, I wonder why they would put that in the manual?

[Odyknuck]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

You should be able to tell if your kingpin is actually moving up and down in the truck hitch by examining the wear marks on the pin itself. Unless your pin weight is severely off, it is doubtful.
Every kingpin will have space between the bottom of the jaws and the bottom lip of the kingpin. I've never seen one that doesn't.
It's hard to determine what you are actually feeling as you describe sway, then porpoising, then back and forth chucking. Maybe find an experienced friend to help you determine what is going on?

Unfortunately I have no one that has a 5th wheel to help me, hence the reason I am here asking for guidance. For the record I have been towing Trailers for 40 years and not knew to this, only 5th wheels.
Let me describe my journey thru this so it may clear up the path to this thread. Lets start with the rig stat's.
My truck is a 2013 Ford F250 Diesel XLT long bed 4X4. So finding a 5th wheel toy hauler that would come close to be within the specs of the truck was a challenge. The Toy Hauler I chose is a 2017 39' Wolfpack Limited w/ separate garage. It has a 14,036 GVWR and a Pin weight of 2006#s . My trucks CCC is 2364#s so its close all be it a little over with my wife and I in the Truck.
On the windy day I brought it home unloaded and experienced some sway in the beginning of the 3 hour trip. The TH tires were a little low so between the wind and low pressure I surmised this was the cause. As the wind died down the sway pretty much went away. First trip out with my X3 SxS loaded and a full tank of water I experienced sway again so the journey to find out why begins. On the way home I had no water on board and empty gray and black tanks and still had sway. Note I am not talking about a lot of sway however a few times I did manually apply the trailer brakes. During the trip tire pressures on truck and trailer were at 80PSI. When I got back the first thing I did was get the rig weighed and that's when I discovered the light pin weight of 1740#s. With changes I made was able to get it up to 1940#s. I did not experience much sway after that. It was after I dropped the Hitch 2" is when the Jerking motion of the rig began. Both going down the road and when pulling away from a light. The jerky motion down the road can be described like a jackhammer. The pulling away from a light is slack in the hitch and/or pin. I did measure the O.D. of the pin and I.D of the jaws and they where pretty close at .050" delta. I also used a 2" O.D. piece of round stock as a gauge and the jaws felt tight enough when closed. It was upon my investigation I discovered the gap between the bottom of the jaws and the Pin ring. So in my efforts to solve the issues I felt adding another disk would help. Note being 65 and retired, I am not in the position to buy a bigger truck or go with a dually so it is what I have to deal with. So here we are.

[Homebrew]

Most toy haulers have a weight limit for the garage, are you over that limit?