Eco boost timing chain

[larrysteimel]

I have a 2003 F250 Ford Excursion SUV, 6 liter diesel and some things require pulling the cab but I have talked to a lot of people that say pulling the cab really isn't necessary.
For a diesel you can't beat a Cummins but for a truck you can't beat a Ford.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

The last I knew pushrod engines had timing chains too.

Well, they'd have to have either a chain, belt or gear, to the best of my knowledge. 1 instead of 2, though in the case of a V engine. There may be exotic setups that vary, but I think this holds true for the vast majority of engines.

[miniceptor86]

Chains or gears on push rod engines. Push rod timing chains are very short compared to overhead cam timing chains. The chains don't actually stretch as in the side plates or links don't get longer it's actually the pins that wear creating increase in length. A little pin wear, some manufacturing tolerances that add up, a poorly hardened pin or three in a six foot chain and it gets too long fast.

A better design from the aspect of longivety would have been a single chain for each bank but that adds cost or gear driven cams but that adds cost and sound.

[2Evil4U]

Good grief. Whipping a timing chain in under 100k? That says chain lubrication design issue to me.

I currently daily drive my 1997 F150 with a 5.4L Modular which has overhead cams and about a 10' timing chain. 241,000 miles and still going strong on all the original engine internals.

[pdqparalegal1]

Just proves mechanics get paid for what they know. I replaced an in tank electric fuel pump. Took wife and I a full day to unhook everything, pull drive shaft and get the tank down. Took longer to put it together and get tank back in. Later, A friend who has a shop told me they just pull the bed and repair in frame. Just a few hours! It's all about knowing how. Bed comes off easy.

[miniceptor86]

Many 3.5 EcoBoost engines have gone long distances without chain problems, one just past 300K with only gas, oil changes, brakes and tires. Just sorta luck of the draw and forum posters do not portray a true failure rate.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

The new engines are designed for ease of assembly (cheap and quick) with little thought about fixing them.



I'll stick with a good old style pushrod motor.

I think the number OHC engines in existence (and the number of miles they have amassed) is a clear indication that this timing-chain issue is an implementation problem and not an overall OHC concept problem. LOL.

I have replaced timing-chains on push-rod engines as well as OHC engines. The ease or difficulty are again an implementation and not an overall concept issue.

In other words, it is easy or hard due to the manufacturer's design and not because it is push-rod or OHC.

[wana65stang]

Was talking to my buddy who owns the truck in the pic, when he went to pick up his truck the mech told him he has done eight eco boost timing chain replacements in the last three months.

[SidecarFlip]

Not sure if that is good to know or bad to know but either way, sounds like the Technician has it down pat.

[quicky06]

Keep in mind that I work on hondas for a living and drop power trains out of them weekly.

I see no need to pull the cab on my 16 3.5 ecoboost

[wana65stang]

Originally Posted by quicky06

Keep in mind that I work on hondas for a living and drop power trains out of them weekly.

I see no need to pull the cab on my 16 3.5 ecoboost

I can't make any comments about the way the eco was repaired , not my truck, all I can say is that my buddy had his truck go in the shop broke and back out fixed in seven hours and he was fine with the amount charged. He's a happy camper now.

[quicky06]

Originally Posted by wana65stang

I can't make any comments about the way the eco was repaired , not my truck, all I can say is that my buddy had his truck go in the shop broke and back out fixed in seven hours and he was fine with the amount charged. He's a happy camper now.

Great. Wish I had more customers like that

[Hersbird]

It's similar to do a timing chain on the GM 3.6 in the Arcadia, Trailblazer, or Enclave except they lift the body up and then drop the whole suspension/front transaxle down. I think the manual says 10 hours but some techs get so good at it they can do it in 1/2 a day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3USSOvAxGgE

[Hersbird]

I agree with the sentiment some others have posted. I'd take a few less hp, a few less MPG, for just solid reliability and easy/inexpensive to fix. Why some makers give up on a tried and true design to get a few more HP or a few more MPG is beyond me. I used to love the latest and greatest when I was a kid and didn't keep anything long anyway. Now I'll take a gutless straight 6 that just runs forever and is easy to work on if it doesn't with parts that cost tens of dollars each rather than 100's over a DOHC VVT DI turbo wiz-bang anyday. Well maybe not, my Cummins does have DI and a turbo but at least it lasts and lasts. The 4.0 Jeep is a great example though. Why they ever got rid of that motor. Or the simple inline 4 in my old Saturn compared to the V-tech Honda were were working on the other day for a friend. The hard start/poor idle/misfire could have been 5 different things. In the end it was a $200 idle air control valve buried behind the motor with coolant running through it. Seems a little screw on a carburetor used to do the same job just as good or if you need a modern doo-hickey the idle air control on the Saturn was 2 screws, 5 mins, and $45.

Another example, we had 2 1996 personal watercraft, a Seadoo XP and a Yamaha Waverunner. The Seadoo had all the hype, more power, faster, more fun, except it went through 2 motors and was sold off 8 years ago. The Yamaha just keeps going, year after year, ridden hard by teens for hours on end, and literally put away wet. What's funner, riding a Yamaha or fixing a Seadoo?

My brother does have a new '16 3.5 ecoboost and it is the fastest truck I have ever ridden in and I used to own a 5.9 Dakota R/T with the short cab. His crew cab, 4x4, long bed almost puts it to shame. I can't imagine what the new Raptor 3.5 with a 10 speed in a normal F-150 will be like. I just wonder if it will still be fun 15 years from now.

[wana65stang]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

It's similar to do a timing chain on the GM 3.6 in the Arcadia, Trailblazer, or Enclave except they lift the body up and then drop the whole suspension/front transaxle down. I think the manual says 10 hours but some techs get so good at it they can do it in 1/2 a day.

HAHAHA!! quite funny watching in fast motion , if he didn't have so many people leaning on the fenders and talking it could have been done in half the time

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I agree with the sentiment some others have posted. I'd take a few less hp, a few less MPG, for just solid reliability and easy/inexpensive to fix. Why some makers give up on a tried and true design to get a few more HP or a few more MPG is beyond me. I used to love the latest and greatest when I was a kid and didn't keep anything long anyway. Now I'll take a gutless straight 6 that just runs forever and is easy to work on if it doesn't with parts that cost tens of dollars each rather than 100's over a DOHC VVT DI turbo wiz-bang anyday. Well maybe not, my Cummins does have DI and a turbo but at least it lasts and lasts. The 4.0 Jeep is a great example though. Why they ever got rid of that motor. Or the simple inline 4 in my old Saturn compared to the V-tech Honda were were working on the other day for a friend. The hard start/poor idle/misfire could have been 5 different things. In the end it was a $200 idle air control valve buried behind the motor with coolant running through it. Seems a little screw on a carburetor used to do the same job just as good or if you need a modern doo-hickey the idle air control on the Saturn was 2 screws, 5 mins, and $45.

Another example, we had 2 1996 personal watercraft, a Seadoo XP and a Yamaha Waverunner. The Seadoo had all the hype, more power, faster, more fun, except it went through 2 motors and was sold off 8 years ago. The Yamaha just keeps going, year after year, ridden hard by teens for hours on end, and literally put away wet. What's funner, riding a Yamaha or fixing a Seadoo?

My brother does have a new '16 3.5 ecoboost and it is the fastest truck I have ever ridden in and I used to own a 5.9 Dakota R/T with the short cab. His crew cab, 4x4, long bed almost puts it to shame. I can't imagine what the new Raptor 3.5 with a 10 speed in a normal F-150 will be like. I just wonder if it will still be fun 15 years from now.

You can thank the EPA and federal CAFE standards for most of that. With that being said, I think we tend to remember the glorious parts of the past while the troubles fade over time. The 1971 and 1972 Ford F100 trucks I had- 1 I did a complete restoration on- only made it to around 100K before a complete engine overhaul was needed. And there was regular fiddling needed on the carbs. And if you didn't know what you were doing you'd have it flooded- the procedure needed for a clean, easy start varied with air temp and engine temp. Jet changes would be necessary when going to different elevations. And the best fuel mileage I ever got from a recently rebuilt close to stock 360 was 13.8MPG unloaded at 55 mainly on the highway. Not to mention the fact that it had about half the power a small V8 would today. But I will give them this- with the right handful of tools you could fix 98% of breakdowns on the side of the road within an hour!

[goduc]

How about an air cooled VW bug? I had one right out of high school. Super simple to work on. Crappy heater but it was a blast to drive.

[Hersbird]

I know on the EPA stuff. I wish a manufacturer would do a modern motor built for pure economy with zero concerns for emissions just to see what emission is costing in wasted feul. The VW diesel "scandal" was all about this, they tuned for economy which cost a little NOX which isn't even a problem most places outside of LA. I wonder what could be done out without a catalytic converter, with ultra lean burn, etc. Without having to try and work on the edges of the regulations. Same goes for all the saftey equipment, if I want to buy an Indian Tata and put my life on the line, who cares? I can ride a motorcycle right and they would be safer than that.
Anyway, hijack over, carry on.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I know on the EPA stuff. I wish a manufacturer would do a modern motor built for pure economy with zero concerns for emissions just to see what emission is costing in wasted feul. The VW diesel "scandal" was all about this, they tuned for economy which cost a little NOX which isn't even a problem most places outside of LA. I wonder what could be done out without a catalytic converter, with ultra lean burn, etc. Without having to try and work on the edges of the regulations. Same goes for all the saftey equipment, if I want to buy an Indian Tata and put my life on the line, who cares? I can ride a motorcycle right and they would be safer than that.
Anyway, hijack over, carry on.

How did we ever survive without Big Brother watching over us, right?