EGR Delete

mike.t · 02-28-2019, 11:26 PM

Or not. Haven't been here for a bit(some folks think I don't come across just right);o) Read a lot about EGR delete for more power. Seems 50% say go for it and 50% say waste of time, waste of time folks say at WOT the EGR is closed others have their opinion.
Thoughts?
Thanks
Mike

acadianbob · 02-28-2019, 11:35 PM

What problem are you solving? Do you really need more power?

Downside: Pollution, Resale Value, . . . . That stuff is there for a good reason.

mike.t · 02-28-2019, 11:43 PM

Simply asking a question, no need to get in a huff!

Hersbird · 02-28-2019, 11:56 PM

I don't think it gives more power at peak, but delete can help make more power at part throttle and also improve efficiency. They are a bad idea on diesels and a good idea on gas motors. On a gas motor they can improve efficiency by removing some pumping losses on the throttle. Direct injected gas and diesel motors don't need a throttling plate so they don't get an efficiency benefit from EGR. What it does do on a diesel is lower NOx emissions. That is it's only benefit. If I had a Diesel with an EGR I would delete it. NOx is a localized problem, meaning if I lived in the LA valley I wouldn't delete it, but across the vast windswept plains, It's about as damaging as a surfer peeing in the ocean once and awhile.

PS, The heavy truck industry with millions and millions of miles logged with and without EGR says it's a 3-5% economy hit with it. So in 300,000 miles it will add up to $1000-$2000.

IsleDog · 02-28-2019, 11:57 PM

usually people delete for a little more power and certainly the MPG difference. some don't like having to run DEF and the issues that it can cause. some trucks will never have issues with it. You can hurt your resale value in some markets as some places will refuse to work on it or refuse to buy it/trade it in. as far as the EGR being closed at WOT, its kind of a moot point. how often will your truck ever see WOT? it probably wont see it often and when it does, only for short durations. and WOT is probably going to be way out of your powerband anyway. Tuning a diesel is where you can run into some serious issues as far as actually hurting it.

on the commercial side of things, Diesel Generators do NOT use DEF and do NOT run at WOT. we run at 1800 RPM all day long, for thousands of hours.

mike.t · 03-01-2019, 12:04 AM

Hersbird/IsLeDog thanks for your input, trying to learn some stuff.
Mike

spock123 · 03-01-2019, 08:40 AM

I did a emissions delete because of def problems. Best thing thing I ever did to the truck.

RACarvalho · 03-01-2019, 09:27 AM

The only reason it's there is EPA.
Customer is not getting anything from it other than a more expensive, complex and prone to fail vehicle.
The delete will give you some more power, a better MPG, less maintenance and longevity but you lose resale value.

Jim34RL · 03-01-2019, 09:48 AM

The EGR will do nothing for a power increases on your Cummins 6.7L engine. Now if you are really talking about the DPF and going to a TBE, than yes that will help. But you will need a programmer and software to be able to operate and increase your HP/TQ plus increase fuel mileage to do this. If you don't the engine and transmission will go into LIMP mode and throw all sorts of codes and CEL's.

If you want to run without removing the EGR but have it not operate than simply disconnect the electrical connection at the solenoid valve on the drive side of the engine. This is were the crossover tube from the EGR cooler on the Passenger side emits cooled exhaust gasses to be reintroduce into the air horn on the Driver side. The connection might be under the batwing, if I remember correctly. You will get a CEL but this will not harm your engine.

upflying · 03-01-2019, 10:02 AM

Does California require smog checks on diesel pickups?

Arti · 03-01-2019, 10:09 AM

I have a 6.0 Ford Diesel. From what I have heard one of the things to keep this engine healthy is the egr delete.Personally I don't really know. This is a pre def engine.

For those that aren't familiar with this engine it has a lot of issues at a relatively low mileage. Also It isn't very torque y like a lot of diesels I have owned and if this would help that it would seem to be worth it to me. On a rolling interstate it will shift down if it see's a small incline ahead.

mike.t · 03-01-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

The EGR will do nothing for a power increases on your Cummins 6.7L engine. Now if you are really talking about the DPF and going to a TBE, than yes that will help. But you will need a programmer and software to be able to operate and increase your HP/TQ plus increase fuel mileage to do this. If you don't the engine and transmission will go into LIMP mode and throw all sorts of codes and CEL's.

If you want to run without removing the EGR but have it not operate than simply disconnect the electrical connection at the solenoid valve on the drive side of the engine. This is were the crossover tube from the EGR cooler on the Passenger side emits cooled exhaust gasses to be reintroduce into the air horn on the Driver side. The connection might be under the batwing, if I remember correctly. You will get a CEL but this will not harm your engine.

Did you do it?

mike.t · 03-01-2019, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upflying

Does California require smog checks on diesel pickups?

Yes. physical check to make sure everything is there and doesn't blow black. I think I am more worried about soot problems (EGR/cooler etc )than horsepower

goduc · 03-01-2019, 11:32 AM

I had a 2012 Ram CTD. Not sure about the differences between the 09 and 12. I did disconnect the EGR valve on mine. On the 12 it de-rates the HP. Drives great in town but has no power out on the hwy. I think the 09 is a little different in that it won't lose power after you unplug it. Not positive though. Some models before the 2012 don't show a CEL.
The truck ran much smoother with it unplugged but took a lot longer to warm up.

To do it right IMO and get a power increase you need a tuner and you need to delete the EGR and DPF. Also if you plan on cranking the tuner up to higher levels you may want to think about new head studs.
You will be rollin coal as well which by all standards is a nuisance.

I suggest you go over to Dodge Cummins Forum. The guys over there are pro delete and will have all the knowledge you need to delete.

007matman · 03-01-2019, 01:10 PM

The EGR itself isn't the biggest problem with these engines it's the EGR cooler which fails and sends coolant into the intake. The EGR itself is just a valve that allows exhaust gasses to enter the engine for a second time to be burned again.

On a Diesel, those gasses have particulates which over time can damage the cylinder walls and cause pre-mature failure.

Best thing for the 6.0 is an EGR delete (which really just blocks off exhaust from getting into the cooler). However, if you live in a state where that's illegal, the other option is a replacement upgraded EGR cooler from Bulletproof Diesel.

ben31 · 03-01-2019, 01:15 PM

FYI, unfortunately the EPA is cracking down on repair places, who bypass or delete this (along with other pollution control devices). I know of two diesel repair shops, who have paid heavy fines for doing this for their customers. Not going after the actual customers (at least not yet). So, beware. If you do it yourself, that is up to you. I just wouldn't be telling the world.

Jim34RL · 03-01-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike.t

Did you do it?

My EGR is still intacked but blocked. I also still have my stock head gasket in place. I lot of users who have deleted the EGR have had head gasket failures! I do not know the corollation but my head gasket is still in place after 120 k miles. I do use a Smarty S67 CaTHER level 3 which is 60HP/120lb.-ft. over stock with a TBE.

With my set up I do not roll any coal never did and never wanted to. Rolling coal just waste fuel, because you are over fueling and this is not being converted to HP, just waste.

Cost4133 · 03-01-2019, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

My EGR is still intacked but blocked. I also still have my stock head gasket in place. I lot of users who have deleted the EGR have had head gasket failures! I do not know the corollation but my head gasket is still in place after 120 k miles. I do use a Smarty S67 CaTHER level 3 which is 60HP/120lb.-ft. over stock with a TBE.

With my set up I do not roll any coal never did and never wanted to. Rolling coal just waste fuel, because you are over fueling and this is not being converted to HP, just waste.

the relationship is not the EGR delete but the cheaper tuner they put on to clear the codes. driveline pressure through the roof.

kfergiez · 03-01-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike.t

Or not. Haven't been here for a bit(some folks think I don't come across just right);o) Read a lot about EGR delete for more power. Seems 50% say go for it and 50% say waste of time, waste of time folks say at WOT the EGR is closed others have their opinion.
Thoughts?
Thanks
Mike

Ex ASE Diesel Tech checking in here...

Well there's not a whole lot of opinion to be had surrounding EGRs but a whole lot of wrong information. So I'll break it down to some simple points.

1) EGR is not active at full throttle.
2) EGR is also not active at idle.
3) EGR exists to reduce NOx emissions (these are VERY bad)
4) EGR exists to lower peak combustion temperatures

Okay. With that out of the way, we can effectively determine what an EGR delete will do to your pickup.

1) A delete will give you more power.... BUT only in the most useless power band range on your engine. Since EGR is already off at higher throttle ranges, it's not really effectively giving you more power.

2) A delete will however prevent your intake from fouling up and building up sticky and tacky carbon deposits.

CONCLUSION:
I've owned diesels with an EGR delete and without one. Honestly the performance differences are negligible. It does bring peace of mind to your intake system though. I did have a vehicle where the EGR managed the governor and once I deleted the EGR, I had no speed restriction. That was fun.

NOx emissions are the worst of all vehicle emissions. So if this is a consideration for you, leave your EGR intact. I would do a DEF or DPF delete before I do an EGR delete.

spock123 · 03-01-2019, 02:36 PM

There is a loophole in the diesel emissions law, if you race your truck you are allowed to delete the emissions. If I had not had any problems with the def I would have kept on using def fluid. I had no warranty on the truck, I had over 125,000 miles on the truck. It cost me $1200 bucks to do the delete, my dealer could not tell me how long it would take them to find the problem of poor quality def fluid. Both times that I experienced the poor quality def it was after 2,000 miles between adding more def fluid. It’s no fun driving in limp mode. I’m not worried about resale value as I’m never trading truck, this is the last truck I’ll ever own. I was getting 12.5mpg and now 13.2mpg towing. The motor oil actually looks like motor oil not black as soot. My Silverado 3500 does not roll coal, there is no black smoke coming out of my tailpipe. I live in North Carolina in the second largest county in the state with 40,000 people. A smog test is not done in the county I live in or the county right beside me which is the largest in the state. Looking at my truck you can’t tell any difference as the big tailpipe was left on. I have had the def tank replaced under warranty, one sensor under warranty and one out of my pocket, $725 bucks. The def tank replaced under warranty was over $1100 bucks. The first poor quality def was 250 miles from Fairbanks AK, scared the hell out of me, the light went off and on a few times and went out. 9 months later the poor quality def light didn’t go out and I was in limp mode 15 miles from my destination. There is a shop near me that has a two month wait list for doing the emissions delete, some on new trucks. I was just fooling around and stopped by my local GM dealer was asking about a trade, the salesman told me to put the parts that was taken off in the truck bed and trading would not be a problem. I was told the dealership could get more out of truck by selling the truck to a farmer with the emissions already taken off. I had problems with the emissions. If I would total this truck in a accident I would buy another new Silverado to replace it but I would have a understanding with the dealer that I could strip off the emissions and still have the warranty. But really the DEF is the only problems I have had with this Silverado, in 153,000 miles the only problem has been from emissions.

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