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Old 02-26-2018, 01:55 PM   #121
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With a delete a dealer normally would not sell it or trade for it. Could be a deal.

Before buying our RAM I noticed the diesel rams were always $7500 more expensive with the diesel. Almost no matter how old.

My kid put a turnover ball in the 2016 RAM in two hours. Older trucks are harder, Often the bed has to be raised. Not a big deal. Usually.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:16 PM   #122
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How does this sound?

2004 F-250 Crew Cab Lariat 4X4 6.0 Powerstroke w/ EGR delete done (no studs) w/108k on the clock. Clean truck 2-tone white/gold paint that's in good condition. No turnover ball in the bed or rails either. Small amount of wander and the PS Box has some type of leak.. not sure if it's the box or not but would probably replace it due to the wandering issue.

I've looked at a lot of them. Most of which were really beat up. This one is in pretty good shape for being 14 yrs old. Some fading on the interior plastics and door trim but looks pretty normal.

$17.5k. would you buy it?
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You need to RUN, not walk, away!!!! There is a 50/50 chance you'll have a LOT of major issues from that 6.0. This is coming from someone that has owned like 90% Ford vehicles over his lifetime. If you decide to get that rig and you end up having issues- remember this- I TOLD YOU SO!!!
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:38 PM   #123
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I had almost the identical truck, but a 2006. I bought it used, kept it stock, absolutely no "bullet proofing" other than take good care of it, and had no trouble for 50,000+ miles. I sold it last year for $18,000.

If you have a day or two for travel, look online around the Dallas area. There are about 4 zillion diesel trucks for sale in Texas.

The dealer paid my $200 airfare from Detroit and I drove it home myself.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:14 PM   #124
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I had almost the identical truck, but a 2006. I bought it used, kept it stock, absolutely no "bullet proofing" other than take good care of it, and had no trouble for 50,000+ miles. I sold it last year for $18,000.

If you have a day or two for travel, look online around the Dallas area. There are about 4 zillion diesel trucks for sale in Texas.

The dealer paid my $200 airfare from Detroit and I drove it home myself.
Yeah, and George Burns smoked like a freight train and lived to 100. Doesn't make it the typical experience. The massive issues with the 6.0PSD are very well known if one chooses to take the time to research. When Ford and International go to court trying to avoid being responsible for the thing it's not a good sign. I'll even help start the research process- one of the first articles I found with a quick Google search:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...vistar-diesels
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:22 PM   #125
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Sorry, Dustman. Didn't mean to touch a nerve.

Disclaimer: I had a 6.0 Ford Diesel without any problems, not everyone did. I still think Texas is a good place to shop for used HD pickups of ANY brand or engine.
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:23 AM   #126
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Sorry, Dustman. Didn't mean to touch a nerve.

Disclaimer: I had a 6.0 Ford Diesel without any problems, not everyone did. I still think Texas is a good place to shop for used HD pickups of ANY brand or engine.
Didn't touch a nerve- just had several friends and family that had them and they ALL had major issues- even the one my cousin had that she babied. Hate to see a forum member roll the dice with that kind of money on the line. Texas is most definitely a good place to look. Lots of used trucks and very little salting of the roads. Only thing is that many of them are worked hard, so you have to be cautious of that.
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:10 AM   #127
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Didn't touch a nerve- just had several friends and family that had them and they ALL had major issues- even the one my cousin had that she babied. Hate to see a forum member roll the dice with that kind of money on the line. Texas is most definitely a good place to look. Lots of used trucks and very little salting of the roads. Only thing is that many of them are worked hard, so you have to be cautious of that.
The one I'm looking at is a NC truck originally but has been in Georgia for the past 10 years. First owner was an older gentleman who was meticulous with care and didn't want to sell unless it went to someone he trusted to care for it properly. He used it to pull his bumper pull camper.

Second owner is a guy at work that just used it to pull his camper as well. It's never even had a 5th wheel hitch in it and his camper was only 7500lbs.

Zero rust anywhere on this truck. I know what you're saying about trucks that are worked hard. I can say with confidence that I don't think this one has been at all (ever).
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:20 AM   #128
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I wouldn't have it for Free if I had to keep it, they are Trouble waiting to Happen. Run don't Walk Away
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:51 AM   #129
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I have only owned one Ford in the last 25? years. I would consider something other than a 6.ukkooh if I was in the market....

I have 2 friends who have had 6.0L Fords and both will never buy another Ford. Period. LOL better or worse...they now own GMs. YMMV
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:13 AM   #130
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The one I'm looking at is a NC truck originally but has been in Georgia for the past 10 years. First owner was an older gentleman who was meticulous with care and didn't want to sell unless it went to someone he trusted to care for it properly. He used it to pull his bumper pull camper.

Second owner is a guy at work that just used it to pull his camper as well. It's never even had a 5th wheel hitch in it and his camper was only 7500lbs.

Zero rust anywhere on this truck. I know what you're saying about trucks that are worked hard. I can say with confidence that I don't think this one has been at all (ever).
You seem to be getting a little confused by the side conversations, so let me clarify. The problems with a 6.0PSD have nothing to do with how they are worked or taken care of- other than you may experience even MORE issues. Many flaws in the design of the engine. So, the only difference in a well taken care of versus not taken care of 6.0 is that it goes from being a bad purchasing decision to a horrible one.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:59 AM   #131
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Sounds like some pretty strong opinions about the 6.0 Ford. I'm hearing conflicting messages though in other forums and that's what I'm having trouble with.

I drove a couple of beat up POS Dodges (can't find a clean one at all.. I'm starting to wonder if the exist). Chevy's lack the interior room (as does the Dodge unless you find a mega-cab).

I know that the 6.0 will eventually need head studs (it already has a proper EGR delete) but I'm seeing other folks that have 2-300k on the clock (and even saw a couple for sale) with the original head bolts which makes me believe that I might be ok if I properly maintain it. I know the 6.0 is picky about maintenance intervals and it sounds like this one has been maintained well (and will in the future too).

All of this is frustrating for me going back and forth. I saw a 2010 f250 @ $23k with a DEF and EGR delete @150k but was talking to someone at church when he told me he'd never buy another one of those after he just put 15k into his (blew a cylinder and replaced turbo which somehow had something to do with the fuel system as well). Another guy I talked to said the Duramax will go through an injector or two per year.. I just don't know.. all of this is confusing to me.
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Old 02-27-2018, 12:09 PM   #132
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And I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone with a Dodge or a Chevy. There are just a lot of them that are really beat up.

The Dodge mega-cab (w/ only 116k on the clock) I looked at last weekend was really bad. Leaking (and basically non-existent) power steering fluid, trans shifted like crap and kept bouncing between 2nd and 3rd gear, loud clacking sound from a lifter or injector I think, turbo didn't have any boost.. that thing was slower than molasses in January (in Canada). Interior was filthy, wiring harness was toast and looked like some critter got their lunch in there all for the low-low price of only $17k! Also, they wouldn't budge at all on the price. In my opinion, that thing was shot and should've been retired/put out to pasture.
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Old 02-27-2018, 12:29 PM   #133
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And I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone with a Dodge or a Chevy. There are just a lot of them that are really beat up.

The Dodge mega-cab (w/ only 116k on the clock) I looked at last weekend was really bad. Leaking (and basically non-existent) power steering fluid, trans shifted like crap and kept bouncing between 2nd and 3rd gear, loud clacking sound from a lifter or injector I think, turbo didn't have any boost.. that thing was slower than molasses in January (in Canada). Interior was filthy, wiring harness was toast and looked like some critter got their lunch in there all for the low-low price of only $17k! Also, they wouldn't budge at all on the price. In my opinion, that thing was shot and should've been retired/put out to pasture.

Ran into this when looking for used diesels a few years back. Basically boils down to this:

1. Low miles and clean
2. Reliable engine
3. Inexpensive

Pick 2.

I recommend you look at 1/2 tons for what you're pulling. I can give you the specifics of what to look for if you decide to go that route.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:20 PM   #134
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Yeah.. I just can't see a 1/2 ton cutting it.. I currently pull my camper with an 2010 Escalade ESV AWD (also a 1/2 ton) and it really struggles on the hills.. not with power (415hp) but with heat. That engine gets right up there and freaks me out knowing it's a cast aluminum block and heads. I've already been through a set of air ride shocks ( yes, I have a good WD hitch) and a transmission. Now the lifters are getting noisy as well. I just don't think it was cut out to haul that much of a load. Not to mention the tires which are getting bald on the edges even with proper inflation. 22" rims don't really give me many options on LT tires.

The Silverados and F-150's out there won't have any more power to offer or a stronger tranny either. I've heard of folks say I should go with an eco-boost but I have two family members that would have a strong argument against that.

I didn't want to spend the money but with the trips the wife wants to do with the kids this year (Arizona from Georgia, Georgia to Florida 2x's, upper Midwest and Tennessee once or twice) not to mention all of the weekend trips around here that well do in the North Georgia mountains) I'm thinking I'll see a fair number of large hills/mountains and I'm firmly in 3/4 ton territory.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:55 PM   #135
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Just assisted a friend get his 2002 F350. 7.3 diesel 4x4, 4door long bed. He got it for 14.5. Has 89,000 on it, garaged most of the time-not faded at all. No salt here in AZ., just sun fade/rot. Not the power output of the newer stuff, but the ultimate "no worries" truck. Nice and clean. They are out there, just have to look.

Mine, 2001 7.3 f250 diesel, bought just over 2 years ago, tho, had 62,000 on it, was always garaged, looked and smelled new....2 wheel drive, 4door super cab, with 5th hitch and exhaust brake...paid 12.9 out the door. (Tags, tax...etc)

Good luck!
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:06 AM   #136
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Not the power output of the newer stuff, but the ultimate "no worries" truck.

You're talking about trucks that are 15 years old. While the engine itself (long block) is very unlikely to have a problem, there are a lot of other things that can leave you stranded. The automatic transmissions of that era are a big problem. Also be aware that the old 7.3L trucks were easy to manipulate mileage on. One fuse would shut down the odometer. I spent a lot of time looking for a good clean 1997-2003 7.3L a few years back. You still had to pick 2 like I mentioned a couple posts back.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:16 AM   #137
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Yeah.. I just can't see a 1/2 ton cutting it.. I currently pull my camper with an 2010 Escalade ESV AWD (also a 1/2 ton) and it really struggles on the hills.. not with power (415hp) but with heat. That engine gets right up there and freaks me out knowing it's a cast aluminum block and heads. I've already been through a set of air ride shocks ( yes, I have a good WD hitch) and a transmission. Now the lifters are getting noisy as well. I just don't think it was cut out to haul that much of a load. Not to mention the tires which are getting bald on the edges even with proper inflation. 22" rims don't really give me many options on LT tires.

The Silverados and F-150's out there won't have any more power to offer or a stronger tranny either. I've heard of folks say I should go with an eco-boost but I have two family members that would have a strong argument against that.

I didn't want to spend the money but with the trips the wife wants to do with the kids this year (Arizona from Georgia, Georgia to Florida 2x's, upper Midwest and Tennessee once or twice) not to mention all of the weekend trips around here that well do in the North Georgia mountains) I'm thinking I'll see a fair number of large hills/mountains and I'm firmly in 3/4 ton territory.
You're pulling 7300 pounds. That's not even remotely "firmly in 3/4 ton territory." There are a LOT of 1/2 ton trucks out there that would easily pull that and not break a sweat. Your Cadillac has a high HP engine- doesn't mean it was designed to tow. As a matter of fact, your current engine has a higher HP rating than ANY 3/4 ton truck except for the newest diesel engines- but, once again, it wasn't designed to tow as is evident in it's tow rating. If you do your research and find the 1/2 tons that are rated to tow 10K plus- there are a bunch of them- you'll be getting much better engine and transmission cooling systems than what your current TV has. Any Ford with the MaxTow option, whether 5.0 V8 or Ecoboost would be a great choice, IMHO. I think GM also has a similar option that comes with the increased capacities but I'm not sure what they call theirs.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:23 AM   #138
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You're pulling 7300 pounds. That's not even remotely "firmly in 3/4 ton territory." There are a LOT of 1/2 ton trucks out there that would easily pull that and not break a sweat. Your Cadillac has a high HP engine- doesn't mean it was designed to tow. As a matter of fact, your current engine has a higher HP rating than ANY 3/4 ton truck except for the newest diesel engines- but, once again, it wasn't designed to tow as is evident in it's tow rating. If you do your research and find the 1/2 tons that are rated to tow 10K plus- there are a bunch of them- you'll be getting much better engine and transmission cooling systems than what your current TV has. Any Ford with the MaxTow option, whether 5.0 V8 or Ecoboost would be a great choice, IMHO. I think GM also has a similar option that comes with the increased capacities but I'm not sure what they call theirs.
In all fairness it's probably closer to 7600 normally. Max tow is 7800 on the Escalade so I'm still within limits (but probably pushing them pretty hard when fully loaded) I had the truck weighed on a scale and the rear axle (fully loaded) is 100lbs over, I still have 150 on the front axle. I was able to adjust it a bit more and push more weight to the front which likely has helped to even it out (but I have not had it re-weighed since then).

Dustman_STX, You make some good points but I think I'd like to have some more headroom especially since we plan on cross-country trips with it. My wife and I was watching the past couple of camping trips what folks were using to pull their campers and probably 9/10 are doing it with a 3/4 ton (or better) truck regardless of camper size. Lots of Ford's and the majority (overall) were Diesel. In fact, she was the one that started asking about it (probably prompted by my freak-out). I really appreciate your insight on the Ford's.

At this point I'm going to move forward with having the one I had pictures of inspected at a well-respected Diesel repair shop in the area. They seem to have a lot of experience with the 6.0 and I'm hoping they can guide me appropriately. I do realize at some point I may have to do head studs. If I can get the truck down to $15k that would really help as I've already received a quote of 5k for the repair (if needed). $20k for a fully bullet-proofed truck that'll go to 350k without any major issues sounds pretty good to me.

I'm also handy and can do most of the maintenance and repair myself. Head studs are probably out of the question for me to do on my own (since the can has to come off to do it) but the rest of what could go wrong with that truck is probably well within my capabilities.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:33 AM   #139
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In all fairness it's probably closer to 7600 normally. Max tow is 7800 on the Escalade so I'm still within limits (but probably pushing them pretty hard when fully loaded) I had the truck weighed on a scale and the rear axle (fully loaded) is 100lbs over, I still have 150 on the front axle. I was able to adjust it a bit more and push more weight to the front which likely has helped to even it out (but I have not had it re-weighed since then).

Dustman_STX, You make some good points but I think I'd like to have some more headroom especially since we plan on cross-country trips with it. My wife and I was watching the past couple of camping trips what folks were using to pull their campers and probably 9/10 are doing it with a 3/4 ton (or better) truck regardless of camper size. Lots of Ford's and the majority (overall) were Diesel. In fact, she was the one that started asking about it (probably prompted by my freak-out). I really appreciate your insight on the Ford's.

At this point I'm going to move forward with having the one I had pictures of inspected at a well-respected Diesel repair shop in the area. They seem to have a lot of experience with the 6.0 and I'm hoping they can guide me appropriately. I do realize at some point I may have to do head studs. If I can get the truck down to $15k that would really help as I've already received a quote of 5k for the repair (if needed). $20k for a fully bullet-proofed truck that'll go to 350k without any major issues sounds pretty good to me.

I'm also handy and can do most of the maintenance and repair myself. Head studs are probably out of the question for me to do on my own (since the can has to come off to do it) but the rest of what could go wrong with that truck is probably well within my capabilities.
Confirm this with your mechanic; but my understanding is that the heads themselves often needed to be replaced on the 6.0. I think the head design had too few bolts- so possibly once those bolts stretched it caused damage to the heads. Might be prudent to have those studs done now as opposed to waiting for a problem. Just a heads up- even something as simple as a starter requires lifting the cab. It's in general not very friendly to work on from what I understand.
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:01 PM   #140
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Confirm this with your mechanic; but my understanding is that the heads themselves often needed to be replaced on the 6.0. I think the head design had too few bolts- so possibly once those bolts stretched it caused damage to the heads. Might be prudent to have those studs done now as opposed to waiting for a problem. Just a heads up- even something as simple as a starter requires lifting the cab. It's in general not very friendly to work on from what I understand.
Yes, that's the source of all the issues with the 6.0, too few head bolts. Studs are the best way to address future potential issues. I may look at doing that right away.

I think most of the time if it's caught early enough the heads are fine but need to be checked. They're also ringing them pretty frequently with that too which really helps the future longevity.
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