Empty Tongue weight seems low

[SadieMae]

Hello,
I'm new to travel trailers and to this form, but very excited!

My wife and I bought a Wildwood 19dbxl that we picked up and drove about 30 miles home, mostly on i-75. The trip scared me a bit. The back of the truck seemed really bouncy and there was some definite sway.

My setup is:
2018 F150 2.7 ecoboost
19DBXL TT with a dry weight of 4200 lbs (sticker on frame)
Blue Ox Swaypro with 1000lb bars.

I tried a bunch of different arrangements on the swaypro and got it a little better by running the trailer a bit nose down, but it was never great. right now the ball sits about 1" lower than the trailer height and I use link 10.

I went to a CAT scale and got the following:
Truck & Trailer with Weight Distribution. All tanks empty. 2 full propane bottles, 1 battery and maybe 1-150lbs gear inside. Mostly in the front bay.
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive axle: 2620
Trailer axle: 4200

Truck Only:
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 2220

This is making me think most of my problem is because there isn't enough weight on the tongue? Dry tongue weight is suppose to be 520lb (by the manufacturing specs) Should I be worried that the actual tongue weight seems so low?

I was also wondering if the swaypro bars were too stiff and causing problems.

I appreciate any pointers or advice. Thanks!
Scott

[ependydad]

Given the numbers that you posted, I can't determine the actual tongue weight. The problem is that the weight distribution hitch is moving that tongue weight around.

You really need to take a weight without the WDH bars engaged to get an accurate picture of the tongue weight.

For TTs, you generally want to do 3 weights:
1, truck + trailer w/ WDH hitch engaged
2, truck + trailer w/o WDH hitch engaged (just coupler on ball)
3, truck only

The tongue weight is the difference between #2 and #3. The reason you do #1 with the WDH is to see how much weight you're restoring to the front axle.

Here's a longer article explaining the above and what to do with the numbers once you have them:
https://learntorv.com/weigh-rv/

Here's a calculator that you can use when you go back to get the 3rd weight (and I strongly recommend doing all 3 at the same time as minor changes in the truck's fuel level and loading can impact the calculation for tongue weight):
Actual Weights - Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull Weights from CAT Scales - TowingPlanner

[SadieMae]

Thank you for that information. Unfortunately the closest scale is about an hour away, so it may be a couple weeks before I can do this.

I've read you want to keep the tongue weight between 10-15% of trailer weight for stability. Does that refer to the "actual" tongue weight or to the weight the truck "feels" after weight distribution?

Sorry not sure how to ask the question, I hope that makes some sense.

[SquiggyFreud]

thankfully our CAT scales are nearby, but you can also get an etrailer tongue weight scale or a sherline. Then at least you can get quick tongue measurements in your driveaway if you are loading different from one trip to another, I used my sherline to set up my hitch before running to scales.

Tongue weight on my 2109S is closer to 16%, always been tongue heavy to me, and I cannot bring myself to load any differently than I do now.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by SadieMae

I've read you want to keep the tongue weight between 10-15% of trailer weight for stability. Does that refer to the "actual" tongue weight or to the weight the truck "feels" after weight distribution?

That made sense. You want 10-15% of actual tongue weight without the WDH.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by SadieMae

Hello,
I'm new to travel trailers and to this form, but very excited!

My wife and I bought a Wildwood 19dbxl that we picked up and drove about 30 miles home, mostly on i-75. The trip scared me a bit. The back of the truck seemed really bouncy and there was some definite sway.

My setup is:
2018 F150 2.7 ecoboost
19DBXL TT with a dry weight of 4200 lbs (sticker on frame)
Blue Ox Swaypro with 1000lb bars.

I tried a bunch of different arrangements on the swaypro and got it a little better by running the trailer a bit nose down, but it was never great. right now the ball sits about 1" lower than the trailer height and I use link 10.

I went to a CAT scale and got the following:
Truck & Trailer with Weight Distribution. All tanks empty. 2 full propane bottles, 1 battery and maybe 1-150lbs gear inside. Mostly in the front bay.
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive axle: 2620
Trailer axle: 4200

Truck Only:
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 2220

This is making me think most of my problem is because there isn't enough weight on the tongue? Dry tongue weight is suppose to be 520lb (by the manufacturing specs) Should I be worried that the actual tongue weight seems so low?

Scott

Actually and oddly enough, you can figure out your tongue weight. Only because your steer axle weigh remained the same and your TT axle is the factory GVW. So the only difference in TV overall weight is the tongue weight. NEVER seen this before. The below may not be exact but close enough to truth.
IF the WDH was in/on the truck during truck alone weights, tongue weight is 400#. 4200 + 400 = 4600. 8.7# on the tongue.
IF the WDH was off during the truck alone weights, then tongue weight was likely 300#. 6.5% on the tongue.
Either way/weigh, you need more tongue weight.
Granted, this allows for no tolerances on the scales. CATs seem to change 20-40# between reweighs.

[{Tpc}]

I agree, you need more tongue weight. Load some stuff in that pass through storage and weigh that tongue. The bars may be a bit heavy, but thats probably on the dealer that sold you the unit/hitch than anything else. I find that they truly believe your going to pack 600 lbs of stuff in the pass through, or load the truck to gills, more often than not. Good on them for giving you room, but maybe not the perfect solution.

If I had to guess, once you load stuff up in the trailer, 6-700 lbs of tongue weight (measured) should help with that truck. Even with nothing in the bed. I had a similar configuration in the past, with the same truck. I had a different hitch though, just your run of the mill reese pro with round bars and 2 friction sway controls, so it may be partially due to how the sway control works on systems without the friction setup.

I would do a lot of measuring to make sure your truck isn't riding "nose high" and that the trailer is more or less "level" when you have it loaded for camping. All this should be done on level ground.

[MtBiker]

You have far to heavy bars. 1000 pound bars with only around 500 tongue weight?
With those specs you would likely be running the bars light and then every time it the truck moves it loads up far to stiff.
You have no flex.

[NJKris]

Agree with MtBiker, right now you are far below the 1000 lb bar rating, and too heavy of a spring bar for the tongue weight is as bad as too little. I have a feeling once you load the trailer for travel, and you do things many of us do like add a 2nd battery, you'll quickly get that tongue weight up where it should be to match those 1000 lb bars.

[Airdale]

The trailer manufacturers "recommended/published" tongue weight has a single purpose. It's a mandatory value used by the trailer manufacturer to satisfy a federal certification standard. It simply reads; "On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR." Don't try to read anything into it "its what it is".

Once that test has been passed and the vehicle certified, the management of vehicle tongue weight is 100% the responsibility of the consumer/owner.

References; FMVSS 571.110 & 571.120.

[SadieMae]

Thank you for all the advice.

I was always planning to keep the trailer weight to around 5500lbs and tongue at 600-650. Is this too light for the 1000# bars? This trailer has a maximum weight of 7500lbs. I don't really plan to load it up that much but that's the number the dealer was looking at when he picked the bar size. Said something like better to have more than you need than not enough...

I just ordered a Jack-It bike rack to put on the front tongue. That should add a good 80lbs. I'll load up and weigh again. I just want to feel comfortable driving this thing and so far it's not been fun.

[SadieMae]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

Actually and oddly enough, you can figure out your tongue weight. Only because your steer axle weigh remained the same and your TT axle is the factory GVW. So the only difference in TV overall weight is the tongue weight. NEVER seen this before. The below may not be exact but close enough to truth.
IF the WDH was in/on the truck during truck alone weights, tongue weight is 400#. 4200 + 400 = 4600. 8.7# on the tongue.
IF the WDH was off during the truck alone weights, then tongue weight was likely 300#. 6.5% on the tongue.
Either way/weigh, you need more tongue weight.
Granted, this allows for no tolerances on the scales. CATs seem to change 20-40# between reweighs.

This was my logic as well. I did have the WDH on the truck for the reweigh, so I was figuring 9%

Originally Posted by {Tpc}

I would do a lot of measuring to make sure your truck isn't riding "nose high" and that the trailer is more or less "level" when you have it loaded for camping. All this should be done on level ground.

Without WDH the back drops 1 1/4" and front rises 1/2". I actually have to be careful not to drop the front end a 1/2".

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by SadieMae

This was my logic as well. I did have the WDH on the truck for the reweigh, so I was figuring 9%.

I'm just having a hard-time getting on board with you being able to know the tongue weight with the weights that you have.

The WDH is going to move the tongue weight to the front axle of the truck, rear axle of the truck, and the trailer's axles. (shrug)

[SadieMae]

Originally Posted by ependydad

I'm just having a hard-time getting on board with you being able to know the tongue weight with the weights that you have.

The WDH is going to move the tongue weight to the front axle of the truck, rear axle of the truck, and the trailer's axles. (shrug)

I'm not saying this is correct. I was just saying I was using the same logic. I am a complete newbie at this. I've tried to read and educate myself on it, but details like this aren't always intuitive. Either way, the next time I have an opportunity to weigh, I will do all three weights like you suggest. I've already made some changes and will be intentionally trying to increase the tongue weight, so it won't compare well to the first set of weights. Now I'm just concerned about my WDH bars.

[Airdale]

If your tongue weight is critical for your tow vehicle and you're cargo weights are always changing, you may want to invest in something like this.

https://www.ouelam.com/products/weig...trailer-tongue

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by SadieMae

I was always planning to keep the trailer weight to around 5500lbs and tongue at 600-650. Is this too light for the 1000# bars? This trailer has a maximum weight of 7500lbs. I don't really plan to load it up that much but that's the number the dealer was looking at when he picked the bar size. Said something like better to have more than you need than not enough...

I think yes, 1000# bars 60-65% loaded are a bit too strong. Probably useable but having ones for the 600-800# range would work better. Often you can just buy the bars themselves that fit the other hitch components at a reasonable cost compared to a whole new hitch.
My hitch has interchangeable 400-600, 600-800, 800-1200 spring bars available. Lost one of mine, replacement somewhere around $50 shipped Ebay.

[lbrjet]

You can not accurately calculate the TW from the numbers provided. It is 400 plus whatever was transferred to the trailer axles, probably another 100 lbs.

[mnoland30]

When I picked up my ROO and drove it home empty, I was worried. It seemed really squirrelly. Once I loaded up, it was fine. Tongue weight matters.

[{Tpc}]

Sadie, the WDH job is to move some of that weight onto the forward axles of your truck. The goal here is to return the front of the truck back to level it was before you attached the trailer. I think generally speaking, you want to be no more than a 1/2 inch in difference but maybe its a 1/4 inch? If you can get it within 1/4 inch, I would be ok with that, this is with the spring bars on. I would rather have it nose down than nose high.

To measure this, you can measure from the middle of the wheel well on both sides to the ground while unhitched (no trailer or spring bars), and then again with everything hooked up. So if you measure 38 inches before and 38 1/2 after, your nose high. If 37 1/2 after your nose down. If your bars have chains, you can go up or down a link to adjust pretty easily.

Tongue weight will have an effect on this, but you would want to load up for camping, get a tongue weight measurement (cat scale, sherline scale, bathroom scale method) of some sort to kind of guide where you are at. With a lighter trailer I find its easier, because you probably have enough payload for the tongue weight. But if your nearing 1k of tongue weight and your truck has only 1400 payload or something....well your probably too heavy in the tongue already.

Just some things to consider. You can always ask the dealer for help in adjustment but make sure your loaded as for camping first. And if you don't trust the dealer...find another. Most wont care where you got your rig for a simple hitch adjustment.

[RGrimm]

Originally Posted by SadieMae

Hello,
I'm new to travel trailers and to this form, but very excited!

My wife and I bought a Wildwood 19dbxl that we picked up and drove about 30 miles home, mostly on i-75. The trip scared me a bit. The back of the truck seemed really bouncy and there was some definite sway.

My setup is:
2018 F150 2.7 ecoboost
19DBXL TT with a dry weight of 4200 lbs (sticker on frame)
Blue Ox Swaypro with 1000lb bars.

I tried a bunch of different arrangements on the swaypro and got it a little better by running the trailer a bit nose down, but it was never great. right now the ball sits about 1" lower than the trailer height and I use link 10.

I went to a CAT scale and got the following:
Truck & Trailer with Weight Distribution. All tanks empty. 2 full propane bottles, 1 battery and maybe 1-150lbs gear inside. Mostly in the front bay.
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive axle: 2620
Trailer axle: 4200

Truck Only:
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 2220

This is making me think most of my problem is because there isn't enough weight on the tongue? Dry tongue weight is suppose to be 520lb (by the manufacturing specs) Should I be worried that the actual tongue weight seems so low?

I was also wondering if the swaypro bars were too stiff and causing problems.

I appreciate any pointers or advice. Thanks!
Scott

When I purchase my 2021 Vibe 21BH in April the trip home (about 50 miles) from the dealer was not comfortable. There was some bouncing and some noticeable sway. My 21BH empty is similar in weight as yours.

21BH
Dry Weight: 4125
Tongue Weight (per brochure): 627

TV Scaled Loaded for travel (occupants and truck bed)
Steering: 3380#
Drive: 2520#
Total: 5900#

Hitched w/weight distribution engaged
Steering: 3220#
Drive: 3620#
Trailer Axles: 5540#

Truck hitched(6840#) - unhitched (5900#) = 940# Calculated tongue weight (may have had a few more items in truck bed when this CAT Scale was done, which would/could explain the 20# difference from the Sherline weight.

Tongue weight measured with Sherline tongue scale: 920#

As you, after my tow home I was concerned about the sway. But in my 2 trips with the setup I have experience very little sway. In fact it is very comfortable to tow.

Notes: 1) After I got the Vibe home, before our first trip, I replaced the Castlerock tires with 4 new Goodyear Endurance tires (one size bigger) and I believe the Goodyears having a stiffer side wall also helped with the sway. 2) My 2019 F150 has a 6.5 bed, so a longer wheelbase (157 inches) which I'm sure helps. 3) The Freshwater tank on my 21BH is in front of the axles, so adding water to that tank adds tongue weight. And I had that tank full (I always tow with full fresh water)

So don't assume you have a problem based on the tow home with an empty camper. Get in loaded for travel and then scale it setup for travel.

Safe Travels.
-Russ