Exceeding your vehicle's towing capacity in an emergency.

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by nomad297

I would be more concerned with a potential broken U-joint than a broken axle.

Bruce

Just curious... why?

[NMWildcat]

When I read these type of threads I always think if most folks spent one week on a real working farm/ranch, their views on equipment use/limits would change drastically after the experience. We always try to use the proper tool for the job, but when getting it means a 60 mile round trip and loss of half a day, it's amazing what you can do with what you have at the time.
But I still say, if there was an imminent fire, and time was short, I might go get items out of the trailer, but moving it very far would probably be too risky. That's why we all have insurance. And if you don't have insurance (I'm always amazed at how many don't once the item is paid for), then that was a gamble you lost.

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

When I read these type of threads I always think if most folks spent one week on a real working farm/ranch, their views on equipment use/limits would change drastically after the experience. We always try to use the proper tool for the job, but when getting it means a 60 mile round trip and loss of half a day, it's amazing what you can do with what you have at the time.
But I still say, if there was an imminent fire, and time was short, I might go get items out of the trailer, but moving it very far would probably be too risky. That's why we all have insurance. And if you don't have insurance (I'm always amazed at how many don't once the item is paid for), then that was a gamble you lost.

LOL, X10!!

[samTummo]

If you feel you have to do it, Try it without a fire. I have stuck my neck out for my family. Now that there are only two of us, out of 7, I’d do it now. Go hook it up and very cautiously see if you can tow it. Then consider there is not a fire licking your butt.

I had a a 78 GMC 1/2 ton stepside pickup about 42 years ago. 350 V8 with a 4 barrel. Dad asked my to go get a scoop of limestone. Weights about 2000 lbs. honestly it was fun at 19 years old. I drove side streets, at about 4 mph. I had to tap the brakes to turn, the tires were touching but not enough to turn. Made it home 3 miles without killing anybody or myself.
Probably would do It in two trips today.

Samtummo

[moose074]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

It's one thing to put the weight on top of the axle, completely different when the weight is behind the bumper.

I agree, which is why I said that the op would most likely have clearance issues.

[pgandw]

When I was flying helicopters for the Coast Guard, the official rules were:

• if lives were in imminent danger of being lost, it was acceptable to risk the helicopter and the lives of the crew.
• if property was in danger of being destroyed, damage to the helicopter was acceptable but risking the crew's lives was not.

The unofficial rule was (until the late '80s) for boats and aircraft, "you have to go out, but you don't have to come back". There was also a saying in aviation, "Never fly with a pilot with a chest full of medals. He's the one who endangered his crew."

There was a history of CG Aviation that looked at every fatal aviation accident from CG involvement with the Wright Brothers through the early '80s. The research showed that on EVERY occasion where a fatal accident occurred on the way to a rescue, EVERY rescuee survived anyway - a record that was really humbling and maddening in light of the brothers that died.

Applying CG risk management rules, if the fire is imminent enough so that you are now risking your life to save property - property loses. If you try to tow the trailer and fail - assuming you have enough time before the fire strikes - there is unlikely to be serious injury. So the risk really becomes a trade-off of likely damage to the trailer (from fire) vs possible damage to your truck. Which is worth more (have to count relationships with your family as well as $$)?

And you know that whichever way you decide, it will be wrong in hindsight (who says God doesn't have a cosmic sense of humor?).

Fred W

[babock]

Originally Posted by pgandw

When I was flying helicopters for the Coast Guard, the official rules were:

• if lives were in imminent danger of being lost, it was acceptable to risk the helicopter and the lives of the crew.
• if property was in danger of being destroyed, damage to the helicopter was acceptable but risking the crew's lives was not.

The unofficial rule was (until the late '80s) for boats and aircraft, "you have to go out, but you don't have to come back". There was also a saying in aviation, "Never fly with a pilot with a chest full of medals. He's the one who endangered his crew."

There was a history of CG Aviation that looked at every fatal aviation accident from CG involvement with the Wright Brothers through the early '80s. The research showed that on EVERY occasion where a fatal accident occurred on the way to a rescue, EVERY rescuee survived anyway - a record that was really humbling and maddening in light of the brothers that died.

Applying CG risk management rules, if the fire is imminent enough so that you are now risking your life to save property - property loses. If you try to tow the trailer and fail - assuming you have enough time before the fire strikes - there is unlikely to be serious injury. So the risk really becomes a trade-off of likely damage to the trailer (from fire) vs possible damage to your truck. Which is worth more (have to count relationships with your family as well as $$)?

And you know that whichever way you decide, it will be wrong in hindsight (who says God doesn't have a cosmic sense of humor?).

Fred W

Yep....most of this thread is about the tow vehicle when the actual driving into and out of a fire incident is 1000 times more of an issue than the tow vehicle issues.

I told my retired fire captain friend from Monterey county who did mutual aid for fires all around CA about this thread and he did not have kind words for people who try these stunts. Says it endangers fire personnel and people that are truly trying to evacuate with their lives let alone anything they manage to get in the car at the last moment.

In the Paradise fire, there were people that barely got out with their cars not catching on fire from road congestion. All it would take is some guy trying to tow a large trailer out like this to make it worse. One of my friend's mom died in the Paradise fire not able to get out of her mobile home in time.

I would think someone who lives in Sacramento of all places would be aware how incredibly dumb it would be to do this but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by babock

Yep....most of this thread is about the tow vehicle when the actual driving into and out of a fire incident is 1000 times more of an issue than the tow vehicle issues.

I told my retired fire captain friend from Monterey county who did mutual aid for fires all around CA about this thread and he did not have kind words for people who try these stunts. Says it endangers fire personnel and people that are truly trying to evacuate with their lives let alone anything they manage to get in the car at the last moment.

In the Paradise fire, there were people that barely got out with their cars not catching on fire from road congestion. All it would take is some guy trying to tow a large trailer out like this to make it worse. One of my friend's mom died in the Paradise fire not able to get out of her mobile home in time.

I would think someone who lives in Sacramento of all places would be aware how incredibly dumb it would be to do this but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

As a retired California state firefighter, I couldn't agree more. The Paradise fire is textbook example of why nobody should attempt such a stunt.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

Just curious... why?

I broke a few while in my youth pulling just a little too much weight...and a couple of tree stumps.

Maybe it was just the truck, though — a 1984 F-250 2WD with granny gear.


Bruce

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by nomad297

I broke a few while in my youth pulling just a little too much weight...and a couple of tree stumps.

Maybe it was just the truck, though — a 1984 F-250 2WD with granny gear.


Bruce

Ahhh... yep... granny gear. Good traction, drop the clutch, the load is heavy or unmoveable, and... POW! I see what you're saying now.



I don't think you would have to worry about doing the same thing in an automatic though... much harder to shock load the driveline, unless you're spinning the wheels and then suddenly get traction with a lot of sauce going through the engine!


Most of the diesel trucks in the last 20 years had lower torque tuning if you had a manual transmission... probably for this exact reason. They open them up with the automatics, which actually can make more continuous torque than a manual...

[Bhrava]

Unless it's a tuned 2.7 EB towing a trailer. TFL busted a driveshaft in their testing.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by BriaBeck

Ahhh... yep... granny gear. Good traction, drop the clutch, the load is heavy or unmoveable, and... POW! I see what you're saying now.

I think good traction had a lot to do with it in a couple of cases. Pulling stumps was fun, but it took a full bed of firewood, tire chains and lots of beer. After the second instance of losing a U-joint, I learned to keep a spare with me along with some spare U-joint straps.

That truck was my very first pickup. I bought it new. It took so much abuse and it still lived forever. I still remember the tire size — LT 235 85R 16E. I bought so many tires for that truck that I will never forget the size.

Bruce

[Mr Towed]

Originally Posted by SacRV

I have a 2019 RAM 1500 with a tow package and a max towing capacity of 11,475 lbs.

My folks have an empty trailer with a UVW of around 13,000 lbs. It's on heavily forested land in Northern CA in fire county. About 5 miles away is the local fire station and airport.

I’ve read through this post and have seen some great points on both sides of the argument. One thing I didn’t see was what you mean by “empty trailer”. What kind of trailer are we talking about here? If it’s truly empty maybe, as others have said, it’s not worth risking your life and other’s to save an empty trailer.
Based on what people have said your truck and the trailer are not the real issue if the fire is truly getting close. If a fire has started in the region and there’s a risk it may be heading your way then maybe go for it, proactively. If the fire is close enough that there are evacuation orders and there is visible smoke and flame nearby it’s time to cut your losses.

[dacheedah]

And now the problem becomes what if something breaks down and now you have an emergency during an emergency and have the possibility of having other people blocked creating a bigger emergency. You could use a new bigger truck and save all the headaches

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Unless it's a tuned 2.7 EB towing a trailer. TFL busted a driveshaft in their testing.

I would blame the Ford Accounting Engineer for that one, LOL

[Clark W. Griswold]

The older I get the more careful and thoughtful I have become.

With that being said, when making big decisions I always consider worst case scenario.

In this case, if you were involved in an accident that caused injury and/or property damage your insurance company possibly could use the weights in determine paying any claims. In an injury situation and a denied claim you would be responsible to pay full freight. A big claim could cost you everything you own and then some.

Probably not worth it. Just a thought.

[BriaBeck]

Originally Posted by Clark W. Griswold

The older I get the more careful and thoughtful I have become.

With that being said, when making big decisions I always consider worst case scenario.

In this case, if you were involved in an accident that caused injury and/or property damage your insurance company possibly could use the weights in determine paying any claims. In an injury situation and a denied claim you would be responsible to pay full freight. A big claim could cost you everything you own and then some.

Probably not worth it. Just a thought.

I don't consider that line of thought an issue anymore. In the past, yes... today, no.


With the plethora of unscrupulous lawyers out there these days, that exact same risk you describe above exists even if you are doing everything "by the book" even with a good safety margin.


The level of legal risk to you in the event of any accident is almost solely determined today by your net worth. Nobody is going to openly say that professionally, but it is true. If the vultures don't see enough meat for them to get a full belly in the end, it will never go to court.


I've got several lawyers and a judge in my extended family...

[Mike134]

It's likely more valuable burnt to the ground than moved away. Just practically speaking.