F-250 or F-350

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by Retired JSO

Our old 2016 6.2 with 3:73 rear likes to shift down and scream on much of any incline including Florida panhandle hills with 8500 low profile Work and Play while turning out 8 mpg at 65 mph.

Sounds about right.....what's the problem?

[Retired JSO]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

Sounds about right.....what's the problem?

No problem. Wife wanted more camper room so we upgraded to 3350 Cardinal and F350 DRW. Now pulls 6% grade on cruise control in 6 th gear delivering 11.7 mpg. Camper now has 10600 miles while truck has 11423. We have no problem.

[MT Biker]

We own a 2019 F250 6.2 Lariat Super Cab w/8’ bed, it is a beautiful truck and tows like a dream. It does have the snow plow prep & Camper package so it is basically a F350 with a 250 badge.
All We use this truck for is towing our travel trailer.
I am mentioning this because we upgraded to this truck from our 2011 Ram 1500.
I can’t stress enough how much of a difference in ride quality there is between these two vehicles.
The Ram rode like a Cadillac compared to the F250, the F250 isn’t bad once it gets some weight in the bed or some tongue weight from a trailer....but empty, these things suck to use as a daily driver.
So if you will be using this truck as a daily driver I strongly suggest wasting a couple of hundred dollars and rent one for a few days from Enterprise (they have Super Duty’s) and see if you can live with the ride... I know I would never be able to use ours as a daily driver.

[Lzerarc]

My 250 6.2 rides better since I took the tires down to 55 and 60 psi, front/ rear. I looked at both before going with the 250. As others mentioned very little difference, basically the overload spring. This is engaged once bigger load is placed, so the 2 road the same to my butt-o-meter. My 250 has a payload of 3116, and is a 2018 crew cab Lariat.

[The Evil Twin]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

My 250 has a payload of 3116, and is a 2018 crew cab Lariat.

I know I paid the diesel penalty, but I cannot imagine the 6.7 weighs 1,000 pounds more than the gasser. I have a payload of 2100ish. How did you option your 250? Camper package? Your GVWR still 10k?

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by The Evil Twin

I know I paid the diesel penalty, but I cannot imagine the 6.7 weighs 1,000 pounds more than the gasser. I have a payload of 2100ish. How did you option your 250? Camper package? Your GVWR still 10k?

yes sir, your engine and transmission is both bigger/heavier than the 6.2. 900# more is what most see.

If you have the big sunroof, that adds weight.
If you have the FX4, that adds little weight.
If you have the Ultimate package, that adds a little as well.
Same with camper package.

Mine has none of those.

Mine has the Lariat Value package, snow plow package, 4x4, and is 10k GVWR.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by The Evil Twin

I know I paid the diesel penalty, but I cannot imagine the 6.7 weighs 1,000 pounds more than the gasser. I have a payload of 2100ish. How did you option your 250? Camper package? Your GVWR still 10k?

The diesel will eat 800-900 lbs of a truck's payload. As I mentioned in my post on page 1, people who opt for a 3/4 ton diesel either have to tow light or decide that 3/4 ton = 1 ton and that payload ratings don't matter.

You're at 2,100 lbs. I'm at 3,600 lbs. Difference? The 1,500 lb difference between 3/4 ton and 1 ton GVWRs.

Does it matter? Are the trucks really any different, other than the sticker? I'll leave that up to you to decide. But, what can't be debated is that 3/4 ton diesels are payload limited by the factory ratings.

I've seen quite a few F-150 HDPP trucks with higher payload ratings than F-250 6.7s. Does that make the F-150 more capable? Again, I'll leave that for others to debate. I'm only talking about the stickers.

3/4 ton gassers are great trucks with plenty of capacity, both real and sticker. There's a person here who frequently posts pics of his Ford 6.2L towing heavy over Monarch Pass in the Colorado Rockies (11,300').

[ppine]

They are not that different. Better axles and bearings in a one ton. A little more payload capacity. I have been driving a one ton as a primary vehicle for 17 years.

"Why do you drive a big American truck" they ask.
"Because I am a big American."

[The Evil Twin]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

yes sir, your engine and transmission is both bigger/heavier than the 6.2. 900# more is what most see.

If you have the big sunroof, that adds weight.
If you have the FX4, that adds little weight.
If you have the Ultimate package, that adds a little as well.
Same with camper package.

Mine has none of those.

Mine has the Lariat Value package, snow plow package, 4x4, and is 10k GVWR.

It does indeed add up quickly. I assumed (incorrectly!) that you had the Ultimate pkg as most do. It makes more sense now.

Originally Posted by 67L48

The diesel will eat 800-900 lbs of a truck's payload. As I mentioned in my post on page 1, people who opt for a 3/4 ton diesel either have to tow light or decide that 3/4 ton = 1 ton and that payload ratings don't matter.

You're at 2,100 lbs. I'm at 3,600 lbs. Difference? The 1,500 lb difference between 3/4 ton and 1 ton GVWRs.

Does it matter? Are the trucks really any different, other than the sticker? I'll leave that up to you to decide. But, what can't be debated is that 3/4 ton diesels are payload limited by the factory ratings.

I've seen quite a few F-150 HDPP trucks with higher payload ratings than F-250 6.7s. Does that make the F-150 more capable? Again, I'll leave that for others to debate. I'm only talking about the stickers.

3/4 ton gassers are great trucks with plenty of capacity, both real and sticker. There's a person here who frequently posts pics of his Ford 6.2L towing heavy over Monarch Pass in the Colorado Rockies (11,300').

Oh, I get the difference between the 250 and 350 GVWR. I did a lot of research before buying. Per Ford, the diesel penalty is 720 lbs but that is their numbers (DEF and fuel full or 1/4 tank?). Yes,the 350 has a greater payload capacity but the towing capacity remains the same for both trucks- 14,000 diesel and 12,500 gas.
BTW, your signature is hilarious!

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by 67L48

...
3/4 ton gassers are great trucks with plenty of capacity, both real and sticker. There's a person here who frequently posts pics of his Ford 6.2L towing heavy over Monarch Pass in the Colorado Rockies (11,300').

This was something I considered stepping up from a F150 to a F250. My needs (towing a 7500 lbs fully loaded trailer and having ample payload to spare) didn't dictate a diesel...in fact, it steered me towards the gas engine.

Overall, my thought on 3/4 ton trucks is they are the big fish in a small, 1/2 ton pond and the small fish in a big, 1 ton pond. The challenge is finding that "just the right size" where a 3/4 ton is king of the road. In most cases, that sweet spot is towing less than 10k pounds and still providing adequate payload.

In reality, a 3/4 ton diesel can be argued as an obsolete truck.
Want to tow more than a 10k pounds? A diesel is the right power plant;however, the tongue/pin weight will max out the payload leaving your bed and seats empty.

Want to load a 3/4 ton diesel with cargo, 5/6 people and still tow? You're now very limited on trailer size.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

This was something I considered stepping up from a F150 to a F250. My needs (towing a 7500 lbs fully loaded trailer and having ample payload to spare) didn't dictate a diesel...in fact, it steered me towards the gas engine.



Overall, my thought on 3/4 ton trucks is they are the big fish in a small, 1/2 ton pond and the small fish in a big, 1 ton pond. The challenge is finding that "just the right size" where a 3/4 ton is king of the road. In most cases, that sweet spot is towing less than 10k pounds and still providing adequate payload.



In reality, a 3/4 ton diesel can be argued as an obsolete truck.

Want to tow more than a 10k pounds? A diesel is the right power plant;however, the tongue/pin weight will max out the payload leaving your bed and seats empty.



Want to load a 3/4 ton diesel with cargo, 5/6 people and still tow? You're now very limited on trailer size.

That's why everyone recommends the 1-ton. It's also cheaper to purchase and insure (at least it was for me).

Diesel.. obsolete? Ha! Obsolete? That's a joke, right?

Let's see whose truck gets to 500k first and is still running.

I keep 'em for the Long haul and will likely have over 500k on the clock when I go to sell it.. Also, who's going to have better resale? I know the answer.. I bet you do too.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

This was something I considered stepping up from a F150 to a F250. My needs (towing a 7500 lbs fully loaded trailer and having ample payload to spare) didn't dictate a diesel...in fact, it steered me towards the gas engine.

Overall, my thought on 3/4 ton trucks is they are the big fish in a small, 1/2 ton pond and the small fish in a big, 1 ton pond. The challenge is finding that "just the right size" where a 3/4 ton is king of the road. In most cases, that sweet spot is towing less than 10k pounds and still providing adequate payload.

In reality, a 3/4 ton diesel can be argued as an obsolete truck.
Want to tow more than a 10k pounds? A diesel is the right power plant;however, the tongue/pin weight will max out the payload leaving your bed and seats empty.

Want to load a 3/4 ton diesel with cargo, 5/6 people and still tow? You're now very limited on trailer size.

and this is where that argument enters about the 10k limit that is placed on the 3/4 ton segment. You are exactly correct if falling within the 10k sticker. My tires are the same as the 1 tons I looked at even. I am of the opinion add air bags or a overload spring and you have a 1 ton from an engineering standpoint. Your reasons are why i went gas. I didnt need anything more with my current 8400 lb TT. Certainly didnt need diesel and all of the high costs associated with it. I may go 5ver down the road, so I kept that in mind. I wouldnt have any issue putting a 12k loaded 5ver on my truck. I may not be able to zoom up the hills in the great midwest, but towing those are so infrequent it doesnt make sense to anything other than the 6.2.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by 007matman

That's why everyone recommends the 1-ton. It's also cheaper to purchase and insure (at least it was for me).

Diesel.. obsolete? Ha! Obsolete? That's a joke, right?

Let's see whose truck gets to 500k first and is still running.

I keep 'em for the Long haul and will likely have over 500k on the clock when I go to sell it.. Also, who's going to have better resale? I know the answer.. I bet you do too.

I believe his obsolete reference was in regards to the 3/4 ton vs 1 ton. A 3/4 diesel has such a low payload, there is no point to get it over a 1 ton was the point I gathered. Hes certainly not saying diesel is obsolete....

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

I believe his obsolete reference was in regards to the 3/4 ton vs 1 ton. A 3/4 diesel has such a low payload, there is no point to get it over a 1 ton was the point I gathered. Hes certainly not saying diesel is obsolete....

Ok. I'll come down off the ceiling now.

Thanks.

[mopwr4me2003]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

I believe his obsolete reference was in regards to the 3/4 ton vs 1 ton. A 3/4 diesel has such a low payload, there is no point to get it over a 1 ton was the point I gathered. Hes certainly not saying diesel is obsolete....

This is my feeling as well on what he meant.

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

.....In reality, a 3/4 ton diesel can be argued as an obsolete truck....

Originally Posted by 007matman

...Diesel.. obsolete? Ha! Obsolete? That's a joke, right?...

No joke.

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

I believe his obsolete reference was in regards to the 3/4 ton vs 1 ton. A 3/4 diesel has such a low payload, there is no point to get it over a 1 ton was the point I gathered. Hes certainly not saying diesel is obsolete....

Yep. In fact, my next statement (below) was promoting diesels for high payload and towing greater than 10k pounds.

Originally Posted by clarkbre

.....Want to tow more than a 10k pounds? A diesel is the right power plant......

Originally Posted by 007matman

......Let's see whose truck gets to 500k first and is still running....

It may be running but at what cost? Forums are riddled with common issues coming from diesels...and gassers alike. To counter your question of longevity, who actually keeps their vehicles past the 250-300k mile mark? The used market is littered with 250/2500 & 350/3500 trucks...mostly diesels that aren't high mileage but right around the point the warranty expires and some of the "will run 500k mile" problems start.

Originally Posted by 007matman

......I keep 'em for the Long haul and will likely have over 500k on the clock when I go to sell it....

Me too...likely not 500k miles. At 10k a year, that would be the last truck I own and I'm only 37. That being said, the Ford 6.2 (while not overly powerful) is proving to be a very solid engine for hundreds of thousands of miles Engine failure - at 418,000 miles.

Originally Posted by 007matman

......Also, who's going to have better resale? I know the answer.. I bet you do too.

You better have a higher resale value. You paid about $10,000 more for your truck thanthe gas version. I would hope for anyone's sake, if they pay more for a product, the used market would yield a higher return for that same product.

I know I'm opening Pandora's box on this and will get flamed because it's numbers and not opinions but compare apples to apples on the average diesel vs gasser cost. This FUEL COMPARISON BREAKDOWN spreadsheet compares the Ford 6.7 to the Ford 6.2 and the break even point after 18 years and 270,000 miles of ownership. With the purchase price, fuel cost, MPG (cited by Fuelly.com), oil, filter & fuel filter changes (based on Ford's intervals), DEF and finally private party sale return, the 2 trucks have a price difference of $10.64 per month over 18 years and 270,000. The gas truck having the advantage for the first 11 years.

What is frustrating is the constant barrage of statements regarding the cost effectiveness for diesel reigning superior. To date, I've yet to see an actual breakdown of costs showing the landslide superiority that diesels (their owners) state. Both have their place and one is not better than the other....but diesel owners will disagree.

[MT Biker]

Just like that.... it turned into another Gas Vs Diesel debate topic.
Well it was a good run of two pages while it lasted.

[007matman]

@clarkbre

I'm not going to do this to everyone else. I don't think we need to have this debate now. let's just say there are many Diesel owners that don't agree with you.

Personally, I bought my '07 truck used. I did pay more for it compared to the same make/model/year gasser, but it was nowhere near the 10k you describe. Someone else paid that depreciation.

I'd put the money that I have invested into this truck up against any new gasser any day of the week. Odds are that mine will be running long past any gasser purchased today and I'll still be able to sell it when I'm done.

You can have the new electronic toys.. they break and are expensive to replace.

[Lzerarc]

the great thing about this country is you can decide how you want to spend your own money (for now...)

I like the comforts and toys, so I will get a newer truck. You like other things for your reasons, you get yours. We each drive to our locations with the same success rate and happiness. Everyone wins.

Soooo yeah, back on topic, the debate between 250/350 comes down to the options you want, the ratings you want, and if you want to follow the sticker limits.

If you want a diesel for your reasons, and stay within the sticker limits, 350 is what you should get. If you do not need or want a diesel, I would recommend the 250. And finally, if you want a diesel and don't care about the sticker, then either! New models will ride pretty much the same between them. Pick the year and age in your flavor. same rules apply! Just go drive them to compare for yourself. My butt will feel different than yours.

[bergy]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

My butt will feel different than yours.

I really don't want to know how you know that