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10-10-2022, 10:44 PM
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#21
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D W
With an empty truck and an empty TT you're probably right at the edge of the envelope, but once you load 'em up that's another story.
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Actually, no…. We are under the 80% rule, too.
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10-10-2022, 10:48 PM
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#22
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker
You have opened the proverbial can of worms on an R/V forum.
Welcome, by the way! I see it is your 1st post.
The very FIRST thing we need to know are weights and ratings of BOTH the truck AND the R/V.
YOU say you are within your limits but we don't know that without numbers.
And... published numbers on brochures mean nothing. Real world numbers are the ONLY way to know for sure and you mentioned you haven't taken delivery yet so how do you know real world numbers?
Owning a R/V is to be fun and enjoyable but the tail wagging the dog is a dangerous situation not only for you but others as well.
Give us some information and we can better help you.
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I am out of town right now, but I know that I’m within the numbers because I did my research. I used several calculators and I’m below the 80% rule. What I am asking about is if the length makes a difference if you are within payload and towing capabilities. I get that there will be sway, but we also have a WDH.
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10-10-2022, 10:52 PM
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#23
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken-m
This is just a guess, you bought a 37 ft travel trailer because you have a few kids maybe dogs? Your truck might have 17-1800 lb payload. You're over weight , by how much who knows we don't have any numbers. But I'm guessing not quite a bit.
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Wow. How snarky does that sound…. No, we are not over weight or payload at all. Under actually. And you don’t need numbers. I was asking about length mattering if you are within your numbers. If you didn’t come here to help, why are you on my thread?!
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10-10-2022, 11:16 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 1,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueloveTravels
Wow. How snarky does that sound…. No, we are not over weight or payload at all. Under actually. And you don’t need numbers. I was asking about length mattering if you are within your numbers. If you didn’t come here to help, why are you on my thread?!
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Here is the thing, people are trying to help you. The general consensus seems to be that 37' trailer for a 1/2 ton is a lot. This is from people who have years of towing experience.
Now you say we don't need numbers. But yeah, that would help people help you. I don't know if this is your first trailer or not. Since you do not have the trailer in your possession yet, what and how did you guess at your weight numbers? Looked up on line? Asked people with similar setups?
Me just doing some mental math here. Your tongue weight plus hitch is going to easily be 1000lbs. Any lighter and you'll be getting too low. Being a huge bunkhouse I assume there is a family involved. So you, your spouse, two kids, and what ever addons you added to the truck (bedliner, lights, side steps,...) is probably another 500 lbs. So now your weight is a good 1500lbs with basically nothing in the truck. No bikes, or firewood, or whatever.
You say you below the 80% rule. That means your truck would need to have a payload of at least 1900lbs, as listed on the drivers door, not the Ford propaganda sheets.
Its certainly possible that your truck has this payload, Fords are good about that with the proper heavy duty tow and HCCP packages.
I'd say give us more of your numbers and estimates. People can help point out things you may have missed, or over or under estimated. This is for all of our benefits as your rolling down the road.
Jim M.
__________________
2020 Flagstaff Super Lite 26RBWS
Former: 2017 Rockwood MiniLite 2104S
2015 Silverado 2500HD 6.0L Gas
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10-11-2022, 01:27 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 268
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Some others have already posted similar, common sense opinions, so I will just state this. Yes your truck will pull that rig but it may not be the best TV for that large of a trailer. RV life is supposed to be fun and as least stressful as possible while traveling. You may be in for some white knuckle swaying, panic stops, passing truck tractor caused sway, etc. Trailer tires and tow vehicle tires can also make a big difference. Can you post a pic of it loaded and connected to your truck as you will be on a trip?
For reference, in August we towed our Grey Wolf 27RR toy hauler loaded with our HD Street Glide, a lot of gear, food, supplies, tools, gen, and more to Sturgis. Travel one way was @1400 miles. Our tow vehicle is a F250 CC FX4 Diesel with HD springs. I could not imagine how stressful this trip would have been with a F150. The first day of travel I drove @840 miles! form SE Texas just to get close to the top of Kansas. Last thing I needed would have been using a marginal TV for this trip.
Having the right TV will make your trips a pleasure, not a white knuckle stress-fest. JMO of course.
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10-11-2022, 03:57 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 208
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Below 80% ?Now your bragging.
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10-11-2022, 07:45 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,680
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With out exact numbers on the truck and trailer it is hard to say you are overweight, but you probably are, payload is the single most important number for a TT with a half ton and the published TW numbers are typically way below average in use.
Length is a much bigger issue. With my truck and prior TT (details in signature) I was probably within a couple of hundred pounds of my payload.
My Flagstaff was similar in size to yours and on 3 separate occasions the sway got so bad the if anyone was next to me I probably would have side swiped them. These were on the interstate with very low winds. The truck sway control did react quicker then I could to regain control. The sway started very rapidly each time without any warning.
I thought about a Pro Pride but then decided it is more of a band aid and down sized the trailer. Even the current trailer is about as large as I would go with a well equipped for towing 1/2 ton truck.
On my last return trip I had ~20mph cross winds come up fairly suddenly, while the movement was very uncomfortable and I got off the interstate, I truly believed they would have been picking up the pieces from the wreck with the Flagstaff
__________________
2024 Artic Fox 3018 5th Wheel
Grand Design 2800BH TT 2021 - for sale
Prior TT 2017 Flagstaff 831CLBSS Classic Ultra lite - SOLD 5/21
TV 2024 F350 DRW - on order
Prior TV 2017 F150 6.5' bed 3.5 Eco-boost Max tow 1800lbs payload
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10-11-2022, 08:09 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llr
With out exact numbers on the truck and trailer it is hard to say you are overweight, but you probably are, payload is the single most important number for a TT with a half ton and the published TW numbers are typically way below average in use.
Length is a much bigger issue. With my truck and prior TT (details in signature) I was probably within a couple of hundred pounds of my payload.
My Flagstaff was similar in size to yours and on 3 separate occasions the sway got so bad the if anyone was next to me I probably would have side swiped them. These were on the interstate with very low winds. The truck sway control did react quicker then I could to regain control. The sway started very rapidly each time without any warning.
I thought about a Pro Pride but then decided it is more of a band aid and down sized the trailer. Even the current trailer is about as large as I would go with a well equipped for towing 1/2 ton truck.
On my last return trip I had ~20mph cross winds come up fairly suddenly, while the movement was very uncomfortable and I got off the interstate, I truly believed they would have been picking up the pieces from the wreck with the Flagstaff
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That must have been scary to have that happen while towing. Can I ask what hitch you were using ?
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10-11-2022, 08:15 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 3,567
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Your truck does not pass SAE J2807 for your trailer. SAE is an all or nothing system. No sort of passes.
Your truck lacks Ass as they say. The rear needs to be heavier. Higher tongue weight.
As you likely have noticed pick ups are sort of squirrelly on wet pavement.
Be careful.
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10-11-2022, 08:18 AM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 31
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I have a 2015 Super crew fx4 flex fuel and tow a 35'. I do not fly down hill like some do, I take it slow other than that I have no issue towing it
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10-11-2022, 08:19 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken-m
That must have been scary to have that happen while towing. Can I ask what hitch you were using ?
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Blue Ox sway pro, generally very happy with the hitch and with the current TT in the high winds I had a lot of movement but no sway, the prior TT was just too much for the truck, I believe primarily length.
__________________
2024 Artic Fox 3018 5th Wheel
Grand Design 2800BH TT 2021 - for sale
Prior TT 2017 Flagstaff 831CLBSS Classic Ultra lite - SOLD 5/21
TV 2024 F350 DRW - on order
Prior TV 2017 F150 6.5' bed 3.5 Eco-boost Max tow 1800lbs payload
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10-11-2022, 09:13 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Right in the Middle
Posts: 1,199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueloveTravels
So, I obsessively researched towing capacities and such. We are within our numbers. I am completely confident with that. What concerns me is the length.
I cannot seem to find anything about length other than I should not have exceeded 30ft, it will be a big sail, and the tail will wag the dog. So cliches aside, is it actually possible that we safely pull this thing?
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I get it.
We hear you, and understand the position you're in. You've GOT a TV, and you BOUGHT a TT, you want to make sure that (a) they align and (2) you can safely drag what you bought with what you brung. You've even "done your research".
The **general** feedback you're getting is that (1) length matters, and (2) length matters MUCH MORE when you're close to/at/over your TV's limitations. I've hauled everything from a 10' hay wagon to an oversized "wide load" boat trailer that went WAY more than 50'... and I'm STILL learning every day (and consider myself generally wet behind the ears compared to the collection of experience on this board). All this stuff is kinduv important (and this board is a wealth of great knowledge... along with, yes, some stupid **** tossed in from the peanut gallery).
Your natural inclination - upon hearing "the rabble's" general discontent - may be to say "Armchair warriors! You guys have no idea what you're talking about, my calculations are great and I have MADE MY PLANS!" (eg "I'm well within 80%, talk to me about LENGTH ONLY.)"
Unfortunately, this statement almost completely ignores the fact that a tow setup is a COMBINATION of MANY factors, and they ALL align and interact with each other. Tow length at capacity is different than tow length WELL under capacity. All these items interact with each other, and - to some degree - can make your tow experience better or worse.
Forget everything else: unless you DISCARD PUBLISHED HITCH WEIGHTS, and USE ~12% of your TT's GVWR, you're setting yourself up for a hard tow that is (1) fatiguing to drive and (2) susceptible to wag.
We've ALL found ourselves victim to published (fictional) numbers. We use them to reinforce our own vision of the experience we want. But discarding the fictional published numbers is the first step in understanding how to properly tow and prepare for it.
ALL of these folks have experience in towing, some may mimic and align with your situation and experience. Maybe feed us the actual data you've used and let us weigh in on it?
TL;DR:
1. Overall length matters: a longer TT increases the lever arm by which crosswinds and bow waves from semis can exert on your TV.
2. Longer rigs make a sway-prone setup MORE susceptible to sway: A rig that is at its weight limits is more sway prone because of how the forces are balanced.
3. Heavier rigs make a TV at its payload limit WAY more squirrely to drive: having reduced weight from the front end, reducing the ability of the steer axle
4. Not all anti-sway hitches are alike. The friction bar hitches don't help your trailer resist sway, they simple damp the sway movement from being migrated into the pivot point by using your TV's rear tires to reduce some sway at the pivot point.
The good news: since your TV is a truck, it can generally handle higher tongue weights, a WD hitch can help migrate weight to your front wheels, and your payload is generally higher.
The bad news: since your TV is a Screw, it's already down on the top payload for an F150 (the mythical tow beast being 2wd, regular cab, long bed with NO other options). When you deviate from this formula in any way, you reduce payload and ability to deal with a longer TT.
No matter what, your truck is likely capable of pulling your trailer. It might not be the safest setup, or the most relaxing to drive, but we're mostly trying to help you see what kind of tow experience you'll have (be it short or long distances). You're also likely resistant to the idea that maybe your setup is less than optimal (having run the numbers yourself and seen that you're "under the 80% rule").
How about offering us your working numbers so we can help give perspective (which you are asking for) on your proposed setup?
Just my .02. I hope this helps, and you want to engage. I understand if you would rather just have a simple answer to a simple question.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Roo 235S
15kBTU AC; 12v fridge; 1kW roof-mounted solar panels; 80 amp MPPT charge controller; 3,500w pure sine wave inverter; 30a automatic transfer switch; MicroAir EasyStart, 600ah Chins LiFePo; Honda EU2200i (with Hutch Mountain propane conversion kit) gathering dust in the storage unit.
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10-11-2022, 09:22 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 208
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Thank you , Rhumblefish nicely laid out.
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10-11-2022, 09:46 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueloveTravels
I am out of town right now, but I know that I’m within the numbers because I did my research. I used several calculators and I’m below the 80% rule. What I am asking about is if the length makes a difference if you are within payload and towing capabilities. I get that there will be sway, but we also have a WDH.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueloveTravels
Wow. How snarky does that sound…. No, we are not over weight or payload at all. Under actually. And you don’t need numbers. I was asking about length mattering if you are within your numbers. If you didn’t come here to help, why are you on my thread?!
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It would really help if you did post your numbers from your truck once you get back into town. If you did all of your research, you are likely good to go. However, it's easy to overlook certain items when you're new to towing. You wouldn't believe how many people post on RV forums thinking they are well under their payload and towing capacities after doing their research, only to find out they aren't because of overlooking little things or misunderstanding what certain terms mean.
We're not trying to insult your intelligence or research. We just don't know you, as is the nature of posting in anonymous internet forums.
A big part of towing length comes down to wheelbase. The longer the wheelbase, the easier towing longer trailers is. What is your vehicle's wheelbase?
__________________
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10-11-2022, 10:16 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 4,515
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Quote:
It clearly states likely your rv frontal area must be under 64 sq ft
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More reading comprehension problems. Says nothing of the kind. Only says the frontal area may degrade tow vehicle performance -- so don't complain if your fuel consumption drops like a stone.
Quote:
Exceeding
these limitations may -- meaning might --
significantly reduce the
performance of your
towing vehicle.
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Emphasis added.
-- Chuck
__________________
2006 Roo 23SS behind a 2017 Ford Expedition
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10-11-2022, 10:54 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,240
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Too much trailer, not enough truck
I always revert to the general rule the gross maximum weight (not empty weight) of the trailer should be no more than 80% of the tow rating of the truck. As an example, for a vehicle with a 9500 lb tow rating, the maximum gross weight of the trailer should be 7600 lb or less.
The placard on the tow vehicle's driver-side door shows the maximum cargo weight for the truck. Cargo weight is the tongue weight of the trailer plus anything one puts in the truck, including passengers, dogs, camping supplies, etc. In general, one will run out of cargo weight before tow rating weight.
It seems that folks are always concerned about what they can tow. If you've ever seen a truck and trailer slide through or into an intersection trying to stop, you'll agree, it is a darn scary sight! Towing is one thing but stopping the rig is another.
My viewpoint, in this case, there is not enough truck to safely tow and stop this trailer. This is regardless of what the salesperson told you.
Bob
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10-11-2022, 11:01 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck_S
More reading comprehension problems. Says nothing of the kind. Only says the frontal area may degrade tow vehicle performance -- so don't complain if your fuel consumption drops like a stone.
Emphasis added.
-- Chuck
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Well said. THAT is why it applies to all F series pickups even a F450 diesel dually. Has nothing to do with keeping the tail from wagging the dog. All about poor gas milage when pulling an open parachute behind you.
__________________
2019 F150 4X4 7050 GVWR 1903 payload
2018 Avenger 21RBS 7700 GVWR
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10-11-2022, 11:14 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 6,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueloveTravels
Actually, no…. We are under the 80% rule, too.
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Okay then, close the deal, load 'em up, hit the scales and report back to us your findings. Simple enough.
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
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10-11-2022, 11:19 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 417
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I hope after loading the truck/trailer for camping and going to the scales, the OP comes back to give us an update. I'll just add that even a little sway can turn into something you can't recover from.
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10-11-2022, 11:31 AM
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#40
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Scoundrel
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueloveTravels
I am out of town right now, but I know that I’m within the numbers because I did my research. I used several calculators and I’m below the 80% rule. What I am asking about is if the length makes a difference if you are within payload and towing capabilities. I get that there will be sway, but we also have a WDH.
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Wait, What? You've used calculators? And what does that little yellow sticky stamp on your drivers door jamb say?
With all due respect, I would not tow that trailer with my F-150...
__________________
2024 Geo Pro 15TB, 400W Solar, 2 Golf Cart batteries
2015 F-150 5.0L V8 XLT Crew Cab, 4x4, Tow Package, 36 gal tank, 3.55 locker, 1891 payload, Integrated Brake Controller, Roadmaster Active Suspension
Wooden Spoon Survivor
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