F350 better than F250 ??

[gastan]

I must be missing something. Almost everyone recommends a 350 over a 250. Why? I downloaded the 2018 Ford Super Duty brochure because I am planning/hoping for a new tow vehicle in the next 6 months to a year. I scanned these charts directly from that brochure. Ford's own literature shows that a similar 250 has better payload and tow capacity. 170 lbs more payload and 200 lbs more tow. Why spend the extra 2 grand? Again, I must be missing something. What?

[dustman_stx]

First of all, the 350 will weigh slightly more than the 250. In the past, only difference was a set of helper springs (came with the 250 with camper package). Your towing number is limited by drivetrain, hence the slightly better number for the 250. Same combined weight for 350 and 250, but slightly heavier truck = slightly less trailer weight. As far as the payload goes, you're looking at the "derated" 350 number. You've always been able to get a 350 with a 9900 or 10K GVWR "package". The "package" amounts to a different sticker bringing the truck in at a lower GVWR for taxation/registration/insurance issues in certain locales. The "non derated" 350 will probably have a payload of around 1200-1400 more than a 250.

[Justice12t]

Haven't looked a 4x2's honestly. I've never seen an F350 with a GVWR of below 11k. I'm sure they are out there for a reason but at least the 4x4 F350's I've found are all North of 11k making the payload numbers much higher.

So I think it just depends. If it was a diesel than most will say F350 because you get the extra payload that you lose with the F250. F250 v F350 gas, well again I believe it to be the same. I'm sure someone here will be able to say if there is truely a 9900lb GVWR F350 and why.

I have an F250 gas with the optional plow/camper package that gives me a slightly beefier more inline with the F350 suspension. I think at that point it just comes down to what the sticker says and how you can register them in states...

Long response with not much of an answer, but I am interested to see what people say...

[Kaadk]

You're comparing the same GVWR between the two trucks. At the same GVWR the slightly heavier F350 will have less payload. But, with the F350, you can option for a higher GVWR. The difference between the 9900 GVWR you're comparing and the 11500 maximum GVWR is 1600 lbs.

[dustman_stx]

Actually, upon 2nd look, it appears as though you now only get ~500-600 pounds more payload. Typical SRW 350 GVWR has always been 11,400 11,500 (non derated). In the past, the trucks were almost identical, so going from 10K GVWR max of the 250 to the typical 11,400 of the 350 gave you almost 1400 pounds additional payload. Only explanation I can see is that there actually are structural differences in the 250 and 350 now and the 350 weighs 600-700 pounds more than a 250.

[007matman]

Dustman's assessment is correct. It's about payload.

From what I understand, DRW's (available on the F350) give you a bit more stability as well which helps reduce the possiblity of sway.

[ronheater70]

Not Ford, but Ram.. But just for giggles, I looked at a 2500 before I bought my 3500. EXACTLY the same truck with the exception of an Auto in the 2500 and a g56 in the 3500..2500 stickered at 1970, my 3500 stckers at 4190. Both SRW Diesels. I would imagine the ford having a similar difference. Hmmmm My son has a 2017 f 350, Ill look at it when I get home for giggles.

[gastan]

Thanks for the responses so far. I was trying to compare trucks with the same engine and rear ends and GVWR/GCWR as shown in Ford's brochure. (See the chart I made from the brochure) I know not to try and compare trucks with different engines/rear ends/GVWR etc..

On Ford's "Build Your Own" webpage for the F250, the only GVWR package/upgrade choice is the "10,000/9,900 GVWR Package".

For the F350 there is that option plus a "11,400 GVWR package". However, it is only available with the PowerStroke. So I'm guessing that the standard gasser 350 is "derated" - and "derated" even below the 9,900 GVWR package, or else why would there be a 10,000/9,900 GVWR package option? ?????

I know that Ford's payload and towing charts show trucks with different GCWR/GVWR but the "Build Your Own" webpage sure doesn't show them or have an option to choose them.

I know that upgrading DRW/GVWR's/rear ends, etc. will give higher numbers. But it seems that in a basic, plain-jane version of truck - apples to apples - the 250 out performs the 350, even if it is just slightly. Is there a way to figure this out or do you need to physically see every label on every dam(n)truck on every dam(n) Ford lot in the area?

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by ronheater70

Not Ford, but Ram.. But just for giggles, I looked at a 2500 before I bought my 3500. EXACTLY the same truck with the exception of an Auto in the 2500 and a g56 in the 3500..2500 stickered at 1970, my 3500 stckers at 4190. Both SRW Diesels. I would imagine the ford having a similar difference. Hmmmm My son has a 2017 f 350, Ill look at it when I get home for giggles.

Just curious as to why get the manual transmission and give up almost 300 pounds torque (and 1,000 pounds tow capacity) with the de-rated Cummins.

[Cowracer]

f350 SRW is just a 250 with an extra leaf in the rear springs.

Seriously. Everything else is the same. Same axles. Same brakes. Same everything.

Tim

[onetonford]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

f350 SRW is just a 250 with an extra leaf in the rear springs.

Seriously. Everything else is the same. Same axles. Same brakes. Same everything.

Tim

Not true depends on which truck you get.

The release of the 2017 SuperDuty brought about some revisions to the axles in order to support the additional power and towing capacity compared to the previous 2011-2016 model year generation. Up front, its basically unchanged with the use of a 35 spline Super Dana 60. Out back, however, there are several variations depending on the capacity of the truck. For those with an F-250, there are two axles that could be residing under your bed. If your truck is equipped with the Heavy Duty Tow Package, you've got a Dana M275 featuring a 10.8" ring gear. For those F-250's without the HD Tow Package, you'll have the tried and true Sterling 10.5 that has been used for years, still featuring a 10.5" ring gear. Moving from there, the F-350 Single Rear Wheel (SRW) models are equipped with the same Dana M275 as the properly equipped 250's. Next, Dual Rear Wheel (DRW) F-350 and F-450's are bumped to a Dana M300 with a massive 11.8" ring gear. The 10.5" has 35 spline axles, where the M275 has 36 splines, and the M300 boasts 37 splines. From the factory, these housings were typically stuffed with the popular 3.31 ratio, but also had options for 3.55, 3.73, or 4.30 ratios.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by gastan

.... So I'm guessing that the standard gasser 350 is "derated" - and "derated" even below the 9,900 GVWR package, or else why would there be a 10,000/9,900 GVWR package option? ?????...

It’s actually more capable than 10,000/9,900 lbs. That package lowers the registered GWVR for registration/licensing (depending on region) purposes. For example, here in Ontario, things get into a real grey area if the vehicle’s GWR is over 4500 kg. The 9,900 downgrade package puts me under that limit. My truck’s actual capability is like 400 or so lbs more than what my sticker says.

A F350, would be like 1600 or so lbs more actual capability than what my sticker says.

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Just curious as to why get the manual transmission and give up almost 300 pounds torque (and 1,000 pounds tow capacity) with the de-rated Cummins.

It's what I wanted! I absolutely LOVE it, and coming from a previous 2016 2500, I absolutely hate thier Auto.. So G56.. Perfect! You only get the big torque with the Aisin anyway, the 68 is only rated at 800 lbs, which is what most people get. And nearly 700 Lbs is Perfect behind the g56.. the transmission gearing is a tad lower, and you have less parasetic loss through it compared to the auto so it al kinda evens out.. Oh.. I REALLLLY wanted one, but I said that already!

[itat]

Originally Posted by onetonford

Not true depends on which truck you get.

The release of the 2017 SuperDuty brought about some revisions to the axles in order to support the additional power and towing capacity compared to the previous 2011-2016 model year generation. Up front, its basically unchanged with the use of a 35 spline Super Dana 60. Out back, however, there are several variations depending on the capacity of the truck. For those with an F-250, there are two axles that could be residing under your bed. If your truck is equipped with the Heavy Duty Tow Package, you've got a Dana M275 featuring a 10.8" ring gear. For those F-250's without the HD Tow Package, you'll have the tried and true Sterling 10.5 that has been used for years, still featuring a 10.5" ring gear. Moving from there, the F-350 Single Rear Wheel (SRW) models are equipped with the same Dana M275 as the properly equipped 250's. Next, Dual Rear Wheel (DRW) F-350 and F-450's are bumped to a Dana M300 with a massive 11.8" ring gear. The 10.5" has 35 spline axles, where the M275 has 36 splines, and the M300 boasts 37 splines. From the factory, these housings were typically stuffed with the popular 3.31 ratio, but also had options for 3.55, 3.73, or 4.30 ratios.

So my 2016 F-250 with the camper and snow plow packages has the same axles as the 2016 F-350? I know that the snow plow package gives me beefier springs in the front but I’m not sure about what the camper package gives you for suspension upgrades on the rear. Is it just an extra leaf spring that’s the only difference? The specs I’ve found online from Ford suggest that the axles are the same but I can’t find anything from Ford that says the extra leaf spring is the only difference. Is there a source online you can point me to? If its truly just the extra leaf spring, is it better to add the extra leaf or add something like Timbrens?

Kaadk mentioned the 9900# for registration purposes. That’s probably true unless your dealer’s salesperson here in Ontario insists on registering the truck for a Registered Gross Weight (RGW) to cover your expected combined weight. I didn’t realize it until after the sale that I had to pay extra for an inspection sticker and would need annual inspections at that RGW. So the next year when I renewed the plate sticker I had it de-rated on the registration down to the 9900# it says on the door sticker.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

f350 SRW is just a 250 with an extra leaf in the rear springs.

Seriously. Everything else is the same. Same axles. Same brakes. Same everything.

Tim

I think it's pretty much the same with the Silverado 2500/3500 too.

[acadianbob]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

f350 SRW is just a 250 with an extra leaf in the rear springs.

Seriously. Everything else is the same. Same axles. Same brakes. Same everything.

Tim

I don't believe the rear axle is the same; Ford/Sterling vs Dana. The 350 also has overloads as standard in addition to the extra leaf.

If you are doing gas, the 250 has a different transmission than the 350. Highly recommend 4.30 gear set.

If you are doing diesel, the drivetrain weight destroys the payload of the 250.

[itat]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

I don't believe the rear axle is the same; Ford/Sterling vs Dana. The 350 also has overloads as standard in addition to the extra leaf.

If you are doing gas, the 250 has a different transmission than the 350. Highly recommend 4.30 gear set.

If you are doing diesel, the drivetrain weight destroys the payload of the 250.

Are you talking about the 2011-2016 gen or the 2017+ gen? The spec sheets I have for the 2011 - 2016 gen SDs says the F250 and F350 have the same axles. I'm not sure about suspension components. My F250 has the 6.2L gas engine so I've only compared the F250 gasser to F350 gasser.

Its interesting that the diesel-equipped truck is rated to pull about 2000# more than the gas version but the diesel engine lowers the payload in the F250 if you stay under its 9900# GVWR.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

I don't believe the rear axle is the same; Ford/Sterling vs Dana. The 350 also has overloads as standard in addition to the extra leaf.

If you are doing gas, the 250 has a different transmission than the 350. Highly recommend 4.30 gear set.

If you are doing diesel, the drivetrain weight destroys the payload of the 250.

You don't have to believe me for it to be true.

Tim

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

I don't believe the rear axle is the same; Ford/Sterling vs Dana. The 350 also has overloads as standard in addition to the extra leaf.

If you are doing gas, the 250 has a different transmission than the 350. Highly recommend 4.30 gear set.

If you are doing diesel, the drivetrain weight destroys the payload of the 250.

Originally Posted by Cowracer

You don't have to believe me for it to be true.

Tim

The devil is in the details.

F250 gas/diesel w/o HD tow package = Sterling 10.5
F250 w/ HD tow & F350 SRW = M275 rear axle
F350/F450 DRW = M300 rear axle

So, you're both right. It just depends on which config you're talking about.

[xd40c]

F350 (and probably F250) is available with 4.10 axles ratio also. That's what I have in my 2018 6.7 DRW. Is 4.30 only available with GAS???