Fiat

spock123 · 01-16-2018, 10:29 PM

Ram trucks and Jeep brands. I wonder if Fiat is going to sell off these two brands.

B and B · 01-16-2018, 11:02 PM

If you can make a buck why not? Iveco Cummins has a certain ring to it..

ADVtraveller · 01-16-2018, 11:57 PM

Chrysler Dodge was owned by Mercedes back when I bought one of my Jeep Wranglers. Did that make it a Mercedes? Ah, no. And Ram is no more a Fiat than my Jeep is a Mercedes Unimog.
I don't know why folks make this Fiat - Chrysler connection such a big deal.
The only reason I drive a Ford truck and not a Dodge is because the Gov buyout that they did with GM and Chrysler still bugs me.

babock · 01-17-2018, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADVtraveller

The only reason I drive a Ford truck and not a Dodge is because the Gov buyout that they did with GM and Chrysler still bugs me.

Ford got bailout money as well. If ford didn't get it they were likely heading for bankruptcy as well.

SlfMdeFam · 01-17-2018, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADVtraveller

Chrysler Dodge was owned by Mercedes back when I bought one of my Jeep Wranglers. Did that make it a Mercedes? Ah, no. And Ram is no more a Fiat than my Jeep is a Mercedes Unimog.
I don't know why folks make this Fiat - Chrysler connection such a big deal.
The only reason I drive a Ford truck and not a Dodge is because the Gov buyout that they did with GM and Chrysler still bugs me.

Ford received 5.9 Billion in 2009 from the government... although it was a loan to retool its manufacturing plant it’s was still a bail out. If they did not get the money they too would have been broke.

ktvaughan · 01-17-2018, 07:48 AM

Don't forget bailout money was all repaid with interest. Gov made.money on these deals.

My17Ram · 01-17-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock123

Ram trucks and Jeep brands. I wonder if Fiat is going to sell off these two brands.

Why would they sell? Ram truck sales are on fire, surpassing Chevy truck sales many months. And they just announced the redesigned 2019, arguably the most technolgically advanced truck on the market and a likely candidate for Truck of the Year.

BandJCarm · 01-17-2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADVtraveller

Chrysler Dodge was owned by Mercedes back when I bought one of my Jeep Wranglers. Did that make it a Mercedes? Ah, no. And Ram is no more a Fiat than my Jeep is a Mercedes Unimog.
I don't know why folks make this Fiat - Chrysler connection such a big deal.
The only reason I drive a Ford truck and not a Dodge is because the Gov buyout that they did with GM and Chrysler still bugs me.

I make the connection, because it's a connection. I realize Ram owners hate admitting it. I don't know why. I have owned Toyota's (once) and Nissans (Once). But when Japan won't buy our rice, why should I buy their cars? I make money (not much) on rice farming. But now, if there is an equivalent choice, I don't want to send my money to Italy. I don't want to own a Ferrari, either. I don't care how good either Ferrair or Ram is, I don't want one.

All those semi-trucks that we fight on the road? The ones thinking they are the American Cowboy and are today's Commerce? 80% (I made that up) of them are carrying some kind of Chinese made b/s to a Walmart in Dubuque, which just hurts American jobs. Then when they inch over and try to squeeze me off the road (oops!!), or double up at 54 mph, or blow by me at 90 mph, I think about all that. I know, we gotta have 'em. And I know it would have been earth shaking prescience to know this in the 50's, but they SHOULD have their own interstate system, because 80K lbs is destroying ours.

But at least they ain't Fiats! LOL

Rant over.

GearHd6 · 01-17-2018, 09:51 AM

Everyone of those commercial trucks pays a BIG road use tax every year depending on the mileage they drive in each state. Complain to your government for not putting that money back into fixing the roads the trucks beat up. After all, that's what the money is supposed to be for. I drive a big truck somewhat locally usually using 3 states to do business. I have to keep track of the mileage I drive and record it on paperwork daily for just that reason. And doubling up on the highway? That's usually on a hill or because they got forced into the left lane because some car doesn't know what merge/yield means when entering a highway. Small vehicles aren't blameless in how big trucks operate on the roads.

And I own a Ram, I couldn't care less if they're owned by Fiat, it's still a great truck. You think all the parts on your GM product are made in the USA? Wishful thinking.

babock · 01-17-2018, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My17Ram

Why would they sell? Ram truck sales are on fire, surpassing Chevy truck sales many months. And they just announced the redesigned 2019, arguably the most technolgically advanced truck on the market and a likely candidate for Truck of the Year.

They are still way less than GM trucks as a whole.

dustman_stx · 01-17-2018, 10:41 AM

I understand that the brand loyalists want to point to Ford and say, "they took the bailout, too", but in fact it was very different from what GM and Chrysler did. For those that are really interested in learning about the bailout, there is a link below to a good article breaking it down. For those that won't take the time to read it or are concerned it might prove their deeply held convictions inaccurate, here are a couple of quotes from the article- emphasis added:

"The U.S. government bailout of the auto industry lasted from January 2009 to December 2013. The Big Three automakers approached Congress in November 2008. They warned that, without the bailout, GM and Chrysler faced bankruptcy and the loss of one million jobs. Ford didn't need the funds, since it had already cut costs. But it asked to be included so it wouldn't suffer by competing with subsidized companies."

"The federal government took over GM and Chrysler in March 2009."

"Chrysler entered bankruptcy on April 3. GM followed on June 1"

It should also be noted that the federal government, i.e. taxpayers, lost a total of 10.2 billion dollars on the GM and Chrysler bailouts. Ford is repaying it's loan in it's entirety with interest.

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-indu...rysler-3305670

dustman_stx · 01-17-2018, 10:46 AM

It should also be noted that funds that GM and Chrysler received also went toward consumer incentives designed to boost sales while Ford used it's loan to develop new technology and retool. In essence, Ford was still at a disadvantage in the market due to the government takeover of Chrysler and GM.

BandJCarm · 01-17-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearHd6

Everyone of those commercial trucks pays a BIG road use tax every year depending on the mileage they drive in each state. Complain to your government for not putting that money back into fixing the roads the trucks beat up. After all, that's what the money is supposed to be for. I drive a big truck somewhat locally usually using 3 states to do business. I have to keep track of the mileage I drive and record it on paperwork daily for just that reason. And doubling up on the highway? That's usually on a hill or because they got forced into the left lane because some car doesn't know what merge/yield means when entering a highway. Small vehicles aren't blameless in how big trucks operate on the roads.

And I own a Ram, I couldn't care less if they're owned by Fiat, it's still a great truck. You think all the parts on your GM product are made in the USA? Wishful thinking.

No, they pay a SMALL road tax. The tax they pay (which they used to put on the back of their trucks, till they got caught being hypocritical) is a tiny percentage of the amount of road each one tears up.

I just Googled this subject and it's even worse than I thought.........

And if you couldn't care less, then buy one! They're good trucks. I realize where vehicles are made. I never said otherwise. I said that the profits end up in Italy.

GearHd6 · 01-17-2018, 11:12 AM

You think a new road system for trucks is a good idea? What do you figure that will cost? Who do you think will get stuck paying for that in the end? Whose land is that going to be built on? Ever hear of eminent domain? Those poor people, but hey, you'll have smooth roads.

And thanks, I did buy a new Ram. You think your GM profit money ends up somewhere other than big execs bank accounts? Again, keep wishing.

ronheater70 · 01-17-2018, 12:25 PM

so fiat/ Ram.. I have a love hate relationship with my truck, when I am enjoying it, it's a ram, when I hate it, it's a fiat.. or maybe I should flip that, when I hate it, it's a Ram, as in Ram it into a tree..

BandJCarm · 01-17-2018, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearHd6

You think a new road system for trucks is a good idea? What do you figure that will cost? Who do you think will get stuck paying for that in the end? Whose land is that going to be built on? Ever hear of eminent domain? Those poor people, but hey, you'll have smooth roads.

And thanks, I did buy a new Ram. You think your GM profit money ends up somewhere other than big execs bank accounts? Again, keep wishing.

Again, not what I said.

I said it would have been impossible to be that far-sighted in the 50's, but it would have been better for trucks to have their own interstate system.

I think profits end up in my IRA, is what I think. And "Big Execs" are fine with me. It's called America. Getting rich (which I'm not) is not a crime. Being poor is not either.

I ain't wishing anything, just commenting.

babock · 01-17-2018, 01:05 PM

Personally, there should have been no bailout of the auto companies including the money that Ford got and that is what the conclusion was from that article. It was basically a bailout for retired union people since that was one of the huge liabilities that the big 3 had.

babock · 01-17-2018, 01:07 PM

What was also not mentioned in the article was the HUGE cost of the cash for clunkers program which was also a bailout that all manufacturers profited from.

dustman_stx · 01-17-2018, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babock

Personally, there should have been no bailout of the auto companies including the money that Ford got and that is what the conclusion was from that article. It was basically a bailout for retired union people since that was one of the huge liabilities that the big 3 had.

You're still trying to put Ford on the same level as GM and Chrysler. They were in very different positions because of financial decisions they made prior to the recession. AAMOF, Ford would have been a giant had the bailout not occurred since GM and Chrysler would have gone bankrupt. Toyota and Nissan would probably have a much larger market share now as well. Ford actually didn't get any part of a "bailout". They received a loan from a completely different government program-once again primarily in order to compete against what was about to be a government subsidized GM and Chrysler- and weren't part of TARP.

dustman_stx · 01-17-2018, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babock

What was also not mentioned in the article was the HUGE cost of the cash for clunkers program which was also a bailout that all manufacturers profited from.

Well, the article was focused only on direct government loans/bailouts directly to the manufacturer. There entire TARP program was a crock that went to a LOT of entities. Not sure what happened to all of the "shovel ready jobs", though.

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