Finally weighed tongue. Oh my!

[Flat_twin]

Go to a truck stop with a CAT scale. There are three scale pads so you can put any combination of axles or trailer tongues on the scales to be weight independently. I use the CAT scale along with fender well measurements to see just how much weight was being removed by tongue weight and how much weight was restored by the WD hitch. To just determine tongue weight, position the trailer so the axles are on one pad and the tongue is on another. Unhitch the truck and pull it off the scale. Hit the button and ask for a weight slip. Here's an example of our Micro Lite. 660 tongue, total trailer weight 4220

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by Flat_twin

Go to a truck stop with a CAT scale. ...

It's much easier to do that using the WeighMyTruck app from the CAT Scale Company. You don't have to yell at the speaker and don't have to go into the store. It also saves your weight history on their web site.

[TheMcBees]

Originally Posted by Flat_twin

Our V10 F250 has 2300 lbs payload per the yellow sticker in the door jamb. I wonder how much of that payload is eaten up by the weight of the diesel and related systems. With the tongue weight you describe you very well may be beyond your payload rating.
Just curious about what your yellow sticker says

The number on the payload sticker already takes the power train into account. It is specific to your vehicle.

[swj]

Scale your truck loaded for a trip. Note the rear axle weight. Hook up you TTrailer loaded ready for a trip. The increase in the rear axle weight is your tongue weight .
Also, crawl under the rear of your truck and look up th see the trucks max tounge weight. My truck has a sticker that says 1400 pounds

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by swj

Also, crawl under the rear of your truck and look up th see the trucks max tounge weight. My truck has a sticker that says 1400 pounds

If you're talking about the hitch receiver sticker, that max weight number is for the hitch receiver ONLY, not the truck.
Manufacturers use the same hitch receiver on many differently spec'd and equipped vehicles with different capacities.

[Mikec557]

Originally Posted by bikendan

If you're talking about the hitch receiver sticker, that max weight number is for the hitch receiver ONLY, not the truck.
Manufacturers use the same hitch receiver on many differently spec'd and equipped vehicles with different capacities.

Boy, that's the truth. I had a 2018 Silverado 1/2 ton, 5.3L gasser with a rear axle ratio for towing. It had a 2in receiver but it was stamped with something like 12,500lbs tongue weight. Clearly that hitch had to be the same used on a much bigger truck...

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Mikec557

Boy, that's the truth. I had a 2018 Silverado 1/2 ton, 5.3L gasser with a rear axle ratio for towing. It had a 2in receiver but it was stamped with something like 12,500lbs tongue weight. Clearly that hitch had to be the same used on a much bigger truck...

You were looking at the wrong numbers. Your number is the Gross Trailer Weight. Here is what my receiver's weight limits are on my 2018 Silverado 1500, Crew, short bed, Z71, 5.3L, 3.42, Trailering Equipment Package.


The Silverado 1500 Z82-Trailering Equipment Package is not the same as the NHT-Max Trailering Package (3.73).

[Mikec557]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

You were looking at the wrong numbers. Your number is the Gross Trailer Weight. Here is what my receiver's weight limits are on my 2018 Silverado 1500, Crew, short bed, Z71, 5.3L, 3.42, Trailering Equipment Package.


The Silverado 1500 Z82-Trailering Equipment Package is not the same as the NHT-Max Trailering Package (3.73).

Not referring to a sticker. The "supposed" capacity of the hitch was stamped into the steel of the hitch itself. I'm driving a 1-ton GMC Duramax now so can't show you a picture of what I mean. But clearly my half ton at the time couldn't take the load stamped on the hitch. Maybe my memory's starting to go, but ut of curiosity now I'll have to look at the hitch on my current truck. Maybe I'll be able to show you what I mean.

I'll look tomorrow.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Mikec557

Not referring to a sticker. The "supposed" capacity of the hitch was stamped into the steel of the hitch itself. I'm driving a 1-ton GMC Duramax now so can't show you a picture of what I mean. But clearly my half ton at the time couldn't take the load stamped on the hitch. Maybe my memory's starting to go, but ut of curiosity now I'll have to look at the hitch on my current truck. Maybe I'll be able to show you what I mean.

I'll look tomorrow.

I'm not sure the "supposed" capacity of my hitch receiver is stamped into it. I do know my previous 2011 Silverado as well as the 2018 Silverado I have now had the same sticker with the same numbers on the hitch receiver. To see the receiver sticker on the 2011 I had to drop the spare tire, the 2018 has the sticker on the bottom of the hitch tube.

[manofsteel1]

I have the Greywolf 22r which is a toy hauler. I pull it with a Ram 1500, 2018 with Hemi engine. Broshure says that the tongue weight is 601lb. We put in 2 motorcycles which weigh about 475lb loaded. So total is 950lbs. The camper is rated to haul a whole lot more. even a golf cart which weighs more than 1050lbs. I also have a Blue Ox distribution system. Let me tell you.....this camper is all over the road with the bikes loaded that it scares me half to death. Forest River never returns my email nor calls to them. The company that I bought it from does not believe me. There is so much lurching and jerking and that trailer sways every where. I am at my witt end. No, I can not get the weights as some of you have said to do. I am just telling you all that it is loaded witht the normal stuff and the 950lb of motorcycle in the back. What should I do, shy of giving you all of these weight theories?

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by carlson

All the discussion about tongue weight and payload capacity, etc. has made me curious to see what my 2013 Rockwood 8329SS and 2016 Ford F150 would come in at. I know the base dry unit weight is 7150, the base dry hitch weight is 883, base dry axle weight is 6267 and cargo capacity is 1600. I know the base dry weights don't mean a lot as the camper has to be loaded but I typically travel with all tanks empty and minimal load with just my wife and I. The F150 has a 3.5 V6 Ecoboost with the max tow package and 3.55 axle. Truck GVWR-7050, FAWR-3525, RAWR-3800 and cargo capacity 1823. I know its probably listed in a thread somewhere but can someone give me the formula or exact way I am supposed to figure tongue weight ? I have an Equalizer set up and quite frankly the TT tows extremely well at all highway speeds with no sway (except strong cross winds) I can use my cruise control if I would like but don't and I would never try to tackle mountains with this set up, I'm pretty much flat-land traveling. I realize I need to weigh the truck loaded with whatever I would normally carry, weight the truck and trailer together with what I would normally carry and do the math from there. Am I missing something? Thank you.

When you weigh the trailer and truck, remember to disconnect the distribution system to determine true tongue weight.

Weigh the combination without the WD in place, then weight the SAME TRUCK and load without the trailer attached.

Add the two truck axles withhout the trailer.

Add the two truck axles with the trailer on.

Subtract the two and the difference is your true tongue weight.

The reason you must disconnect the bars is they transfer a portion of the combined weight of the truck and trailer to the front axle of the truck and the camper's axles so you wont get a true tongue weight.

The hitch will always see the true tongue weight regardless of which axle(s) winds up supporting it.

If you weigh the combination again with the WD bars installed, you can see the degree of shift and can get a true look at your axle loads. You can then check if you are overloading your front truck axle or camper axles with the WD on.

True front axle load is important in 250(0) class trucks with diesel engines because you are so close to max with the truck just sitting there.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by manofsteel1

I have the Greywolf 22r which is a toy hauler. I pull it with a Ram 1500, 2018 with Hemi engine. Broshure says that the tongue weight is 601lb. We put in 2 motorcycles which weigh about 475lb loaded. So total is 950lbs. The camper is rated to haul a whole lot more. even a golf cart which weighs more than 1050lbs. I also have a Blue Ox distribution system. Let me tell you.....this camper is all over the road with the bikes loaded that it scares me half to death. Forest River never returns my email nor calls to them. The company that I bought it from does not believe me. There is so much lurching and jerking and that trailer sways every where. I am at my witt end. No, I can not get the weights as some of you have said to do. I am just telling you all that it is loaded witht the normal stuff and the 950lb of motorcycle in the back. What should I do, shy of giving you all of these weight theories?

There are a number of possibilities.

Poor WDH setup, low truck payload capacity, unknown true loaded weights.
Are you saying that there aren't any CAT or public scales in your area?
Personally, I would never use a 1/2 ton to tow a toyhauler unless it was a F150 3.5 Ecoboost with the HDPP package.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by manofsteel1

I have the Greywolf 22r which is a toy hauler. I pull it with a Ram 1500, 2018 with Hemi engine. Broshure says that the tongue weight is 601lb. We put in 2 motorcycles which weigh about 475lb loaded. So total is 950lbs. The camper is rated to haul a whole lot more. even a golf cart which weighs more than 1050lbs. I also have a Blue Ox distribution system. Let me tell you.....this camper is all over the road with the bikes loaded that it scares me half to death. Forest River never returns my email nor calls to them. The company that I bought it from does not believe me. There is so much lurching and jerking and that trailer sways every where. I am at my witt end. No, I can not get the weights as some of you have said to do. I am just telling you all that it is loaded witht the normal stuff and the 950lb of motorcycle in the back. What should I do, shy of giving you all of these weight theories?

At first glance, with the bikes loaded, too low tongue weight. IOW, any trailer with weight concentrated behind the axle is a sway monster.
I’d load up the TH and go to the CAT Scales.
For a preview of the TH loading effect, measure the truck wheel well height differences unhooked, with TH no WDH spring bars, with TH with WDH spring bars, each time with and without the motorcycles loaded. Yup, that’s six measurement setups.
Based on posts here, it seems that when the WDH is initially installed for a TH, it is far off from were it should be when the toys are loaded behind the trailer axle.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by Flat_twin

Go to a truck stop with a CAT scale. There are three scale pads so you can put any combination of axles or trailer tongues on the scales to be weight independently. I use the CAT scale along with fender well measurements to see just how much weight was being removed by tongue weight and how much weight was restored by the WD hitch. To just determine tongue weight, position the trailer so the axles are on one pad and the tongue is on another. Unhitch the truck and pull it off the scale. Hit the button and ask for a weight slip. Here's an example of our Micro Lite. 660 tongue, total trailer weight 4220

PLEASE do NOT unhitch the trailer from the truck on the scales !!!!!!!!!! Unless there is no one there. Even then I do not sugest it. Truckers are making a living and holding them up is being inconsiderate.

I repeat PLEASE DO NOT do this...... Please do as Herk sugested.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

PLEASE do NOT unhitch the trailer from the truck on the scales !!!!!!!!!! Unless there is no one there. Even then I do not sugest it. Truckers are making a living and holding them up is being inconsiderate.

I repeat PLEASE DO NOT do this...... Please do as Herk sugested.

Try to go to scales when they are not too busy. Best to unhook the trailer off the scales and chock it there. Then reweigh your truck by itself. By subtracting the truck drive axle weights, with and without trailer with no WDH connected, minus the difference in the steer axle, should give you a fairly accurate tongue weight. Same day reweighs should only be an additional $2 each. If anyone is in line behind you, pull off even to Remove your WDH spring bars to do the reweigh.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by bikendan

There are a number of possibilities.

Poor WDH setup, low truck payload capacity, unknown true loaded weights.
Are you saying that there aren't any CAT or public scales in your area?
Personally, I would never use a 1/2 ton to tow a toyhauler unless it was a F150 3.5 Ecoboost with the HDPP package.

My trailer weighs in at under 10k and looks to be doable with a properly set up half ton but loaded the tongue weight is above any half ton's capacity.

I'm in total agreement about toyhaulers being problematic for a 1/2 ton truck and think they are a bad choice for any hauler above about 6500lbs due to tongue weight variations and having to be careful loading as to avoid having too much weight aft of the trailer axle(s). Moving weight on a camper in order to play a balancing game to meet a tongue weight number is a recipe for a bad day.

I have no bias with brands at all (my last truck was an F150 with something over 2200lbs payload and I've had Ram/Nissan/Dodge and Chevys) so don't take this as a stab at Ford... -While the Ecoboost motor is strong and the higher payload number from the hdpp looks great the tongue weight capability is not increased. Personally I would choose the 1/2 ton truck that tested the most stable before requiring a wdh...

The Chevy stayed stable during testing with a significantly higher tongue weight than the F150 and its easy to get a large swing of tongue weights depending on how the toyhauler is loaded...

[DrivingRangeChamp]

Originally Posted by Flat_twin

Our V10 F250 has 2300 lbs payload per the yellow sticker in the door jamb. I wonder how much of that payload is eaten up by the weight of the diesel and related systems. With the tongue weight you describe you very well may be beyond your payload rating.

Just curious about what your yellow sticker says

I had a 2012 F250 diesel XLT, and it had 2200# of payload. So, unless your less than 600# on cargo, passengers, and fuel, you’re over your payload rating for your truck. That was one of the reasons that I decided to get a gasser when I upgraded. I bought a 2020 Chevy 2500 with the 6.6 gasser, and it was more than 3600# of payload. Those diesel engines are heavy!

[Grisham91402]

Not being a smart a here but payload has nothing to do with the sway does it? And for the weight police, yes I know so let’s keep it on focus of sway.

[flag19fd]

If your tongue weight isn’t between 9-15 % of you trailer weight, handling/sway will be affected. You can find videos online demonstrating the handling problems.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by Grisham91402

Not being a smart a here but payload has nothing to do with the sway does it? And for the weight police, yes I know so let’s keep it on focus of sway.

Trailer sway doesn't just happen. Sway is the result of how weight is distributed on the trailer. The best trailer design would have the axle(s) as far to the rear of the trailer as possible (like a trailer for a semi). This is a problem because it requires a tow vehicle that can handle the weight it would impose on it via tongue, pin or goose ball. As the axles move forward on the trailer and weight is positioned behind those axles it becomes more prone to pendulum affect (sway).

To counter pendulum affect an increase in tongue weight is needed. Folks like to give out numbers on tongue weight between 10% to 15% (and its true)...but the reality is that if you have a tow vehicle that can handle the weight, higher than 15% is better. Toy haulers are problematic for loading purposes with a rear garage (weight behind the rear trailer axle)...this requires more weight on the tongue to inhibit sway. 10%, 12% (pick a number depending on trailer design and loading) may not be enough to counter sway...-This is what payload and maximum tongue weights (receiver limits) have to do with sway and why 1/2 ton trucks are problematic with toy haulers.