First camping trip weights

[tomkatb]

You have a suv built like a half ton short bed truck. Due to all the glass in the back the payload is very low for a truck.

It is important the truck and trailer be level.

Due to limited payload you should minimize weight behind the front seats. No coolers and generators in the tv. No 16 year old boys in the jump seats. Minimize weight in the tv.

Be sort of balanced in the tt. Hitch of about #450 seems right. If heavy to the rear they sway. If heavy front they increase the payload on the tv.

You are fine. Go have fun.

Think about loads. 100 gallons of liquids in tanks will change the balance some. More likely overloading the trailer.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by SickPup404

Our plan at this point is to run with our current setup and manage issues as best we can until we decide to change either TV or TT. Once that happens, both will likely change. The Expedition on a frame gets slightly better towing capacity, but to make a difference we really need to move up to a truck. I like the Ford 4-door Super cabs as a couple family/friends have them, but that's a topic for a whole other thread (I've read some, good points to be found with searches!).

WDH is a FastWay E2 92-00-0600 (600/6000) with trunnion bars. Only place I could find a weight on it was Amazon - stated 33 pounds.

The four doors are Super Crews, super cabs are the ones with the 1/2 size rear suicide doors. If you go Ford, join the F150 forum for researching all the tow variations.

Your plan is what I did. Bought a TT the Explorer could handle (mediocrely). When my wife decided truck time, I wasted no time When shopping, pay attention to the GVWR & Load Capacity stickers on the vehicles you prefer.

I suggest using a bathroom scale to weight your WDH, you, you holding the WDH, subtract. Because 33# seems pretty low. My hitch head (51#) and bars (26# each) weigh 103# (didn’t remove the frame mount bar platforms for weighing, say a pound or two each)

[IvoryHemi]

Weights look fine. Nice

[SickPup404]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

...I suggest using a bathroom scale to weight your WDH, you, you holding the WDH, subtract. Because 33# seems pretty low. My hitch head (51#) and bars (26# each) weigh 103# (didn’t remove the frame mount bar platforms for weighing, say a pound or two each)

Good call, and agree that it seems quite a bit low. I'll post back later with the actuals.

[SickPup404]

Oh, and glad that everyone seems to be in agreement that I don't have anything really bad going on. I was concerned and wanted to be sure I wasn't in for any "surprises"...

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by SickPup404

So what I gather is we should try to move some weight from TV to the TT ahead of the axle? Serves twofold: Eases up on the payload weight of the TV; Increases tongue weight in the TT.

Only disagreement I have is this statement.
Increasing the tongue weight doesn't ease up payload weight, it INCREASES it. Tongue weight goes against payload capacity, just like people, WDH and vehicle cargo.
You need to shift weight BEHIND the axle, not in front of it.

[SickPup404]

Got that part, my mistake on the TV payload weight.

I was thinking based on my actual weights I needed to get more tongue weight percent.

So if I move say 40# from the TV to the TT ahead of the axle, that should increase that tongue percent, but the net change in the TV payload is close to zero? (Weight would have come out of the TV and into the TT.)

Sorry if I'm being dense! LOL!

[SickPup404]

lol! 33# is a tad bit low from Amazon for my hitch! Just weighed myself with it...

Actual weight is:
- 15# each trunnion bar
- 46# hitch head
- Maybe estimate another 1-2# for trailer brackets and bolts
- Say 63# total for the hitch, not 33#

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by SickPup404

lol! 33# is a tad bit low from Amazon for my hitch! Just weighed myself with it...

Actual weight is:
- 15# each trunnion bar
- 46# hitch head
- Maybe estimate another 1-2# for trailer brackets and bolts
- Say 63# total for the hitch, not 33#

Umm, let's add both trunnion bars, not just one.

 15
+15
+46
 +2
 78

That brings your available payload down to 700 lbs. for people, cargo, and fuel.

[SickPup404]

LOL! Math after "dad sodas" doesn't work too well! Thanks for catching that!

[SickPup404]

You really have to think about what you put in the TV.

The 700# budget isn't much and gets eaten up fast...
- 18 gallons of gas is 111#
- I weigh 210#
- Wife weighs about 130#
- Son (10) weighs 84#

Only left with 165# for cargo. I can only imagine what it will be like once he's asking to bring a friend, or if they are 16-17 years old.

Hopefully, we would have a different TV situation by then! Maybe I can start trying to convince the wife it's time to start shopping now!

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by SickPup404

You really have to think about what you put in the TV.

The 700# budget isn't much and gets eaten up fast...
- 18 gallons of gas is 111#
- I weigh 210#
- Wife weighs about 130#
- Son (10) weighs 84#

Only left with 165# for cargo. I can only imagine what it will be like once he's asking to bring a friend, or if they are 16-17 years old.

Hopefully, we would have a different TV situation by then! Maybe I can start trying to convince the wife it's time to start shopping now!

If the 18 gallons of gas is in the vehicle fuel tank, it's already accounted for and you don't need to subtract it from payload.
But 18 gallons of fuel for an Explorer sounds low.

[lbrjet]

Your truck weighs 5940 with the WDH hooked up and your GVWR is 6300. You still have 360 lbs to work with. Only 250 more can go on the rear axle though, but you still have some wiggle room to add another passenger or gear.

[mclee45]

My 2016 explorer platinum had a 500 lb tongue weight limit. I'm sure your tongue weight is way over that. That is the reason i traded mine in for a full size suv. TT tongue weight spec on manufacturers website does not include anything. You have to add weight of wdh, battery and propane tanks to it since they tend to be located right at the hitch area

[Jboshell1]

Why are you really worried? Are you going to trade your TV? Trade your camper?

[Chuck_S]

Thanks for posting your weights! Everything looks fine. Minimum is still in spec.

You can ignore the "frontal area" nonsense. I think Ford includes that with every truck including the 350 Super Duties used in hot shot trucking. All it does is burn fuel, the truck will handle it fine. Slow down. Air resistance is exponential, it's twice as much at 70mph than it was at 50.

Check the handling. You may want more weight on the front axle to help prevent fishtailing and increase steering response. 10%-15% is the range.

Not sure what the Explorer HD tow includes. When you move up to an Expedition for your next truck it will include "sway" control as well as proportional braking. Not towed with an Explorer in 13 years since I bought our first Expedition and the change was wonderful even at your weight.

-- Chuck

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by SickPup404

Used the CAT scales on our shakedown run (used the great HowTo from @ependydad - thanks!) and got these weight results.

The TV in my sig has on it's data plate:
- 5000 Tow capacity
- 500 Tongue weight
- 6300 GVWR
- 3200 Front GAWR
- 3350 Rear GAWR
- 10400 GCWR

The camper in my sig has on it's data plate:
- 4200 GAWR
- 4600 GVWR
- 1114 CCC
- 3515 Dry (from web specs)
- 1185 CCC (from web specs)
- 4700 GVWR (from web specs)

Anyway, does anyone see any problems/issues with my weights?

When we bought the camper, I pulled the WDH off and reinstalled as if I just bought it using the instructions (measuring wheel well hieghts, etc). Prior owners had a different TV.

Seems to me I could try to add more to the tongue weight % maybe? When you "eyeball" once we're hitched, the TV and RV all seem level/flat/pretty - I saw some that were obviously wrong and dipping down at the hitch.

Thanks for checking!
Steve

Your trailer GAWR is 4200 and the scale reading is 4100. Tire loading assumes a perfect load split side to side of 50/50 but very few RV have been found to be perfectly balanced.
You didn't provide tire size or Load Range or the inflation you set in your tires the morning of each travel day.


with only a 50# cushion on tire loading (50% of the axle) between Rating and Actual I bet you will find that one of the tires in in overload which is not good.


If your trailer is pre 2018 it probably came with ZERO load rating margin so you may have problems down the road.


You might want to review my post on Reserve Load and you will see why tires on RV do not perform as well as tires on motorvehicles.

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by bikendan

...Increasing the tongue weight doesn't ease up payload weight, it INCREASES it. Tongue weight goes against payload capacity, just like people, WDH and vehicle cargo.
You need to shift weight BEHIND the axle, not in front of it.

If you remove, say, 250# from the TV and put in in the TT ahead of the axle I don't think the entire 250# is on the tongue, so the net effect is to decrease the TV payload while increasing the tongue weight, which is what is desired here.

Right?

[Chuck_S]

WDH removes weight from the rear axle and distributes it both to the front axle and the trailer axle.

-- Chuck

[Tireman9]

Trailer axle can only gain 100# before it is overloaded. One tire is probably already overloaded.