Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-14-2020, 10:28 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lower DE
Posts: 62
First camping trip weights

Used the CAT scales on our shakedown run (used the great HowTo from @ependydad - thanks!) and got these weight results.

The TV in my sig has on it's data plate:
- 5000 Tow capacity
- 500 Tongue weight
- 6300 GVWR
- 3200 Front GAWR
- 3350 Rear GAWR
- 10400 GCWR

The camper in my sig has on it's data plate:
- 4200 GAWR
- 4600 GVWR
- 1114 CCC
- 3515 Dry (from web specs)
- 1185 CCC (from web specs)
- 4700 GVWR (from web specs)

Anyway, does anyone see any problems/issues with my weights?

When we bought the camper, I pulled the WDH off and reinstalled as if I just bought it using the instructions (measuring wheel well hieghts, etc). Prior owners had a different TV.

Seems to me I could try to add more to the tongue weight % maybe? When you "eyeball" once we're hitched, the TV and RV all seem level/flat/pretty - I saw some that were obviously wrong and dipping down at the hitch.

Thanks for checking!
Steve
__________________
2017 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS
2017 Ford Explorer Platinum w/ Tow Package
SickPup404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 10:49 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
007matman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,151
What are you pulling it with?

Frontal area/drag could be an issue as you'd be close to your max.
007matman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 11:10 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lower DE
Posts: 62
2017 Explorer with 3.5L EcoBoost (3.16 final drive, 365HP, 350 lb-ft torque).

[EDIT]
I see in Ford's spec sheet that they recommend less than 40 sq ft frontal area with the Class III package we have.

The Apex Nano 193BHS has that curved aerodynamic front... Can't find anything about frontal area on it...
[/EDIT]
__________________
2017 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS
2017 Ford Explorer Platinum w/ Tow Package
SickPup404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 12:06 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 5,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
2017 Explorer with 3.5L EcoBoost (3.16 final drive, 365HP, 350 lb-ft torque).

[EDIT]
I see in Ford's spec sheet that they recommend less than 40 sq ft frontal area with the Class III package we have.

The Apex Nano 193BHS has that curved aerodynamic front... Can't find anything about frontal area on it...
[/EDIT]
What do they consider "Frontal Area" ? Full front of the TT ?
TheWolfPaq82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 12:26 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lower DE
Posts: 62
From the way the chart is on Ford's PDF, you get 20 sq ft in the base TV, 30 for Class II, and 40 for Class III.

I'm just guessing here, but I think it means total area - IE for my Class III, I get 20 sq ft for the TV, then 20 sq ft for the exposed part of the RV (not the full front).

So the exposed part of the RV is sloped back.

Example side pic (not ours):


Example front pic:


Our TV roof height is roughly about the upper part of the front window in the first pic, the "Nano" in the graphics on the second pic. On an 8' wide RV, this looks like it's either 16 or 24 sq ft total, but how does the slope affect it?
__________________
2017 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS
2017 Ford Explorer Platinum w/ Tow Package
SickPup404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 12:33 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 5,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
From the way the chart is on Ford's PDF, you get 20 sq ft in the base TV, 30 for Class II, and 40 for Class III.

I'm just guessing here, but I think it means total area - IE for my Class III, I get 20 sq ft for the TV, then 20 sq ft for the exposed part of the RV (not the full front).

So the exposed part of the RV is sloped back.

Example side pic (not ours):


Example front pic:


Our TV roof height is roughly about the upper part of the front window in the first pic, the "Nano" in the graphics on the second pic. On an 8' wide RV, this looks like it's either 16 or 24 sq ft total, but how does the slope affect it?
4' x 5' ? How do they come up with these numbers ? Oy Vey.
TheWolfPaq82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 12:42 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lower DE
Posts: 62
Time to break out the chainsaw and cut some notches!
__________________
2017 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS
2017 Ford Explorer Platinum w/ Tow Package
SickPup404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 01:18 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Hills of Northwestern PA
Posts: 1,116
Overall your weights look good, well within specs.
I recommend you move more weight forward of the TT axle and get your tongue weight percentage up closer to 15%. This may mean moving stuff from the TV to the TT to stay in specs. It shouldn’t cause much if any drop at your WDH. And a slight down TT angle helps the air flow over the TT as well as more downward force on the TT for added stability.
Your engine will get a workout with a GCWR of 10400# and measured GCW of 9680#. That’s 93% of the GCWR by my calculations. Better than I did with my TT & 2008 Explorer, 96%. Truely sucked on hills, especially if steep.
__________________
2019 Cherokee Wolf Pup 16BHS flipped axle
2019 Ford F-150 S-Crew 5.5 bed V8 w/tow package, 3.55, 7000# GVWR, 1990#CC
Husky Centerline TS WDH 400-600# spring bars
Boomerweps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 01:21 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 381
I'm not sure if Ford suggests using the "barn door" equivalent or if they just look at a 2D slice of the box. To figure frontal area. If you took the 2D slice of your TT at the front after the slope, that should be good. The slope will help some, but all of the stuff on your roof probably more than offsets that. Lots of parasitic drag .
__________________
Hobienick

2020 Rockwood Roo 19
2012 F150 SuperCrew Ecoboost
hobienick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 01:25 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
007matman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,151
Slope has nothing to do with it.. simple width and height. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

I think you're closer than you think to the limits but probably doable. If it were me, I'd be looking for a truck with some additional capacity.

That's just me though and my experience (with two different vehicles I've had to do major repairs on) talking. I'm also the guy that keeps his vehicles for years and doesn't trade them in every few so take it for what it's worth.
007matman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 01:50 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,217
No one is saying anything about payload. Could you post a snapshot of the yellow and white sticker on the driver's door frame? Make sure it has the phrase "Weight of passengers and cargo should not exceed..." And include an priovide the trailer tongue weight and estimated weight of the Weight Distribution Hitch.
__________________
Larry

Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 02:03 PM   #12
REL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 135
I don't see Cat scale weights?
REL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 03:26 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lower DE
Posts: 62
Well, this was a really unplanned purchase and venture. Covid really screwed us on vacation plans (we usually travel to see family and friends in the UK and France).

We took the funds from vacation plans and got the TT. The Explorer was bought new back in 2017.

Our plan at this point is to run with our current setup and manage issues as best we can until we decide to change either TV or TT. Once that happens, both will likely change. The Expedition on a frame gets slightly better towing capacity, but to make a difference we really need to move up to a truck. I like the Ford 4-door Super cabs as a couple family/friends have them, but that's a topic for a whole other thread (I've read some, good points to be found with searches!).

Payload from the sticker is 1216.

CAT Scale weights are in the link in my first post (click on "...these weight results").

Tongue weight is 440 according to CAT Scales.

WDH is a FastWay E2 92-00-0600 (600/6000) with trunnion bars. Only place I could find a weight on it was Amazon - stated 33 pounds.

Hopefully that answered all the questions. Really appreciate all the insight!
__________________
2017 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS
2017 Ford Explorer Platinum w/ Tow Package
SickPup404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 04:08 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
The Expedition on a frame gets slightly better towing capacity, but to make a difference we really need to move up to a truck.
Expedition is a significant step up from the Explorer for towing.

Aside from the longer wheelbase, with the tow package the Expedition will give you a 7,760 lbs GVWR and 4,380 lbs rear GAWR, plus 60 sq-ft frontal area allowance.
IvoryHemi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 04:21 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,217
Good information

Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
Payload from the sticker is 1216.

CAT Scale weights are in the link in my first post (click on "...these weight results").

Tongue weight is 440 according to CAT Scales.

WDH is a FastWay E2 92-00-0600 (600/6000) with trunnion bars. Only place I could find a weight on it was Amazon - stated 33 pounds.

Hopefully that answered all the questions. Really appreciate all the insight!
Great information. You are really taking care to do this right. On small vehicles, payload is usually the first limit you hit.
Code:
Payload       1216
Tongue weight -440
Hitch          -33
               743
As long as you can keep your passenger and gear weights down, you aren't exceeding the vehicle limit. Do you intend to "boondock" with fresh water in the tank? Did you have water in the tank at the CAT scale? It's 8.3 lbs. per gallon. On some small trailers, the tank is located forward of the axle so that weight is reflected in the tongue weight.

Good luck in your travels.
__________________
Larry

Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Larry-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 04:25 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
The camper in my sig has on it's data plate:
- 4200 GAWR
- 4600 GVWR
- 1114 CCC
- 3515 Dry (from web specs)
- 1185 CCC (from web specs)
- 4700 GVWR (from web specs)
Check the inside sticker for “actual” trailer dry weight. My Apex has a weight of 4,880 lbs listed on the website, but my door jam sticker shows 5,209 lbs....but from weighing on the scales it’s even heavier than that. The manufacturers listed dry weights are unrealistic.
IvoryHemi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 04:58 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by REL View Post
I don't see Cat scale weights?
Or the TV payload as stated in #11 above.

Nameplate numbers are meaningless.
boogiejack75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 05:43 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,013
First camping trip weights

You are under your truck axle ratings and gross vehicle weight rating so you are good. A truck payload discussion is irrelevant when you have the GVWR and actual weights. Trailer dry weight is irrelevant when you have actual weights. If you could get closer to a 12% tongue weight that would be better. Overall looks pretty good though.
__________________

2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
lbrjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 05:53 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007matman View Post
Slope has nothing to do with it.. simple width and height. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

I think you're closer than you think to the limits but probably doable. If it were me, I'd be looking for a truck with some additional capacity.

That's just me though and my experience (with two different vehicles I've had to do major repairs on) talking. I'm also the guy that keeps his vehicles for years and doesn't trade them in every few so take it for what it's worth.
Slope absolutely has something to do with it.
If your vehicle is right at it's limits the slope can be important. As well as the parasitic drag of the rooftop stuff.

If it were being made hard I would have included the equation to find the barn door equivalent. Instead we can assume, as stated, that the parasitic drag outweighs any benefit the slope provides so using the "box front" analog keeps it simple.
__________________
Hobienick

2020 Rockwood Roo 19
2012 F150 SuperCrew Ecoboost
hobienick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 07:42 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lower DE
Posts: 62
We went through CAT Scales like the HowTo post recommended, just like we would be for a typical camp and everyone stayed in their places for all three weights.

We don't plan on any boondocking, so all our tanks were empty when weighing.
[Side note - The dump station was overflowing and closed when we got to it. The State Park Rangers told us we could go to another close state park to dump for free. We had 2/3 grey and black according to the gauge, so on 30 gallon tanks would be a total of 40 gallons we didn't plan on. Trip to other park (32 miles) felt just a little "squirrely" in the back, but otherwise uneventful.]

So what I gather is we should try to move some weight from TV to the TT ahead of the axle? Serves twofold: Eases up on the payload weight of the TV; Increases tongue weight in the TT.

For all the data I used in the weight calculator, I attached all the stickers and tickets I used as sources.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Truck plate 1.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	287.1 KB
ID:	239162   Click image for larger version

Name:	Truck plate 2.JPEG
Views:	30
Size:	228.0 KB
ID:	239163   Click image for larger version

Name:	Trailer plate 1.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	422.8 KB
ID:	239164   Click image for larger version

Name:	Trailer plate 2.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	158.8 KB
ID:	239165   Click image for larger version

Name:	Weight 1 with WDH.JPG
Views:	50
Size:	231.5 KB
ID:	239166  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Weight 2 without WDH.JPG
Views:	38
Size:	232.6 KB
ID:	239167   Click image for larger version

Name:	Weight 3 truck only.JPG
Views:	44
Size:	232.2 KB
ID:	239168  
__________________
2017 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS
2017 Ford Explorer Platinum w/ Tow Package
SickPup404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
camping, weight

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 AM.