Friendly gas versus diesel?

[CincyGus]

I'll let ya know in a couple months. I just bought a 2020 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 LTZ and sold my 2015 GMC Duramax Denali. I pull a 10k Toy hauler (in my signature). The reason I got rid of the diesel was as follows:

• Repair expenses were killing me- The Emissions system was pretty much replaced due to most of the DEF related sensors acting up and giving me the dreaded "Your speed will be limited in 100 miles"messages and I was not confident the #$^# thing wasn't going to get me stranded hundreds of miles from home doing 5 mph and having to get it and my trailer towed home.

• Most of my trips are relatively close to home (w/in 200-300 miles) with minor hills so the diesel was overkill bought mainly in case we kept it through to retirement in a few years where we want to travel west.

Basically I decided going for something new, with a warranty for the next 3 years and do retire that isn't known for having emissions issues nearly as often as the diesels and is certainly cheaper and easier to work on than the diesels crammed into those engine compartments was worth a little slower climb up a grade once in a while with a little louder roar to do it. $3000 in 3 repairs in 3 months so my speed wasn't limited to 65 then 55 and so on made it an easy choice for me.

I am excited to see how it does as the 6.6 has a ton of power when I'm not towing so I'm thinking I won't be disappointed with the reasonable expectations I have that it will not power up hills like the duramax but will still get me up there safety without having to hit my flashers. 460 lbs of torque is nothing to sneeze at even though it's not the 900+ of the duramax.

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I love a diesel but torque is not a measure of power. I can make more torque than any diesel out there with my bare hands and a lever long enough. What I can't make more than maybe 1 or 2 is horsepower. Horsepower is a measure of torque (a force) over a period of time. I can move a camper up a hill with my 200 pounds turning a 5 foot bar making 1000 foot pounds, but my 10 hp lawnmower making 10 ft lbs of torque can do it faster. Because it makes 10 horsepower and I only make 1.

But then we are talking about towing where torque is important, otherwise a 400HP truck with 429 LB ft of torque would tow up a hill considerably faster and better than a 350 HP truck and 800 LB ft. I mean we dont see 400 HP gas engines in trucks with 30K pound tow limits, we see 400 HP diesel motors, so its not the 400 HP, it the huge torque number on the back side. When numbers are close, a higher hp motor will be faster. We saw this with the Titan XD gas vs diesel version of the same truck run up the gauntletm but there comes a point where it just cant keep. I previously had a truck that had 40 More hp than what I have now, but considerably less torque. The difference in the two engines on the same hill with identical loads was 3rd gear at 4400 RPMS and slowing vs 5th gear at 1800 rpms and accelerating.
Theres a reason you dont see diesel engines manufactured in todays pony/ exotic sports cars as a norm, but you do see them in a heavy duty truck.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by ronheater70

But then we are talking about towing where torque is important, otherwise a 400HP truck with 429 LB ft of torque would tow up a hill considerably faster and better than a 350 HP truck and 800 LB ft. I mean we dont see 400 HP gas engines in trucks with 30K pound tow limits, we see 400 HP diesel motors, so its not the 400 HP, it the huge torque number on the back side. When numbers are close, a higher hp motor will be faster. We saw this with the Titan XD gas vs diesel version of the same truck run up the gauntletm but there comes a point where it just cant keep. I previously had a truck that had 40 More hp than what I have now, but considerably less torque. The difference in the two engines on the same hill with identical loads was 3rd gear at 4400 RPMS and slowing vs 5th gear at 1800 rpms and accelerating.
Theres a reason you dont see diesel engines manufactured in todays pony/ exotic sports cars as a norm, but you do see them in a heavy duty truck.

Right, if the horsepower numbers are the same, then more torque will be better because that means it was making more horsepower earlier and then maintained it into higher rpm. But take my 2004.5 Cummins with 325 hp and 555 ft lbs. The new Chevy 6.6 is going to out pull that even with less torque because of more horsepower. Nobody would complain that the 2004.5 Cummins was an inadequate puller, just things have gotten a bit ridiculous.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Right, if the horsepower numbers are the same, then more torque will be better because that means it was making more horsepower earlier and then maintained it into higher rpm. But take my 2004.5 Cummins with 325 hp and 555 ft lbs. The new Chevy 6.6 is going to out pull that even with less torque because of more horsepower. Nobody would complain that the 2004.5 Cummins was an inadequate puller, just things have gotten a bit ridiculous.

That new gas engine will be able to maintain higher speed under load due to higher horsepower but torque is what gets things moving. The higher torque of the diesel means it’s going to get that load moving better and with less effort.

Horsepower determines how fast work is done (top speed), but all the horsepower in the world is useless if you don’t have the torque needed to get things moving.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

That new gas engine will be able to maintain higher speed under load due to higher horsepower but torque is what gets things moving. The higher torque of the diesel means it’s going to get that load moving better and with less effort.

Horsepower determines how fast work is done (top speed), but all the horsepower in the world is useless if you don’t have the torque needed to get things moving.

It's not like the gas doesn't make torque, and really that is only going to apply to the first 1/2 of 1st gear, because as the gas will rev to 5000 rpm that diesel has to shift to 2nd at 1/2 the speed so now is getting much less torque through gear multiplication. The advantage of making torque at a higher RPM (aka horsepower) is the ability to use lower gear multiplication longer while accelerating. This is why the examples I posted above run faster 1/4 mile times with more horsepower. People overthink the the numbers, horsepower is already a math equation based on torque that has done the math. Like I said it is the only measure of power. Torque is just a force and without motion makes zero power.

[Dakota 1120]

I have a Ram w/6.4 Hemi and pull a 30' toy hauler. Been to the Black Hills a number of times, been to Yellowstone and over to Montana "Going to the Sun" highway park.
Never had an issue with the Ram and 6.4. Before that had a Ram with 5.7 Hemi and it did a fine job too but the 6.4 w/410 horses does it better.

[Big-Foot]

TFL Truck Team knows where it's at.... If your trailer is within the capabilities of the new breed gassers - I'd be firmly in that camp.
Personally - I'm done with the EPA Diesels for good.
For your viewing pleasure -

https://youtu.be/S5juznc4prc

[Flat_twin]

I'm curious about how interest in a brand new truck got started when one has a perfectly good PAID FOR tow vehicle.

Stay away from dealership showrooms! If you're there for service don't go wandering too far from the service area. Looking is dangerous to the wallet.

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Flat_twin

I'm curious about how interest in a brand new truck got started when one has a perfectly good PAID FOR tow vehicle.



Stay away from dealership showrooms! If you're there for service don't go wandering too far from the service area. Looking is dangerous to the wallet.

the following is me talking to my phone, and it converting to text. There may be some grammatical errors. I am driving down the road 65 miles an hour right now.

I think it's just that some of us like to have whatever is the newest latest and greatest. I'm typically good for 2 years or less on every vehicle that I bought over the last 35 years. I'm real close to have on 50 vehicles since I started driving and I'm 49 years old. Now of course that includes my wife as well, because I tend to move her through cars at a pace faster than average but not quite at my pace. I also tend to own three or so vehicles for myself at any one time. Right now I have a Jeep Wrangler on 37's and aftermarket axles, by Ram 2500, a supercharged Grand Prix oh, and a 1971 Chevelle super sport.

my Ram has 1550 miles on it I've owned it for two months, I'm already telling my wife that I think in another month or two I'm trading it in on a 2020 because there are two features that I didn't know that I would miss and I want on my truck. One of those features is the proximity locks so that I never have to reach into my pocket and touch the key fob to lock or unlock the car. The second one is the Uconnect access so that I can use my cell phone to remote start the vehicle from my work. The truck that I have is a big horn level 2, but it does not have the proximity sensors or the cell phone connectivity system in it. Other than that it's got everything I want with LED lighting sunroof 8.4 touch screen, blah blah blah.

[Vrydr1550]

Originally Posted by 007matman

I'm of the Dave Ramsey persuasion.

The cheapest and best vehicle you'll ever own is more than likely already parked in your driveway. You've already paid most of the depreciation on the one you own.

Greetings from Georgia (we moved here 4 yrs ago from SoDak)

Would it pull it? Probably.

I have pulled a heavy trailer many miles with gas and duramax. In my opinion. Keep your duramax or upgrade to the new duramax for towing. I haven't used t by e new 6.6 gas but in my opinion t by e duramax will out do it empty or towing.

[Dakota 1120]

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

TFL Truck Team knows where it's at.... If your trailer is within the capabilities of the new breed gassers - I'd be firmly in that camp.
Personally - I'm done with the EPA Diesels for good.
For your viewing pleasure -

https://youtu.be/S5juznc4prc

I Ram 2500 with the V-10 engine ... 488 cu. In. or 8 L. and 400 horsepower.
I did love that engine ...... running empty at 80 MPH it would consistently get 18 MPG. Loaded, about 15 MPG and NEVER ran out of power.

Adding a few mods like headers/Boral Exhaust, K&N air filter, etc. and could up the HP to over 600 easy.

[Flat_twin]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

the following is me talking to my phone, and it converting to text. There may be some grammatical errors. I am driving down the road 65 miles an hour right now.

I think it's just that some of us like to have whatever is the newest latest and greatest. I'm typically good for 2 years or less on every vehicle that I bought over the last 35 years. I'm real close to have on 50 vehicles since I started driving and I'm 49 years old. Now of course that includes my wife as well, because I tend to move her through cars at a pace faster than average but not quite at my pace. I also tend to own three or so vehicles for myself at any one time. Right now I have a Jeep Wrangler on 37's and aftermarket axles, by Ram 2500, a supercharged Grand Prix oh, and a 1971 Chevelle super sport.

my Ram has 1550 miles on it I've owned it for two months, I'm already telling my wife that I think in another month or two I'm trading it in on a 2020 because there are two features that I didn't know that I would miss and I want on my truck. One of those features is the proximity locks so that I never have to reach into my pocket and touch the key fob to lock or unlock the car. The second one is the Uconnect access so that I can use my cell phone to remote start the vehicle from my work. The truck that I have is a big horn level 2, but it does not have the proximity sensors or the cell phone connectivity system in it. Other than that it's got everything I want with LED lighting sunroof 8.4 touch screen, blah blah blah.

That's awesome! I'm right behind you in the food chain. I love one owner, low miles, used vehicles. That's exactly what I look for. Just bought one like that last month. Our first one with push button and remote start, touch screen, blind spot monitoring etc.

[cc102bob]

Originally Posted by Dakota 1120

I Ram 2500 with the V-10 engine ... 488 cu. In. or 8 L. and 400 horsepower.
I did love that engine ...... running empty at 80 MPH it would consistently get 18 MPG. Loaded, about 15 MPG and NEVER ran out of power.

Adding a few mods like headers/Boral Exhaust, K&N air filter, etc. and could up the HP to over 600 easy.

HOLY MOLY! My RAM 3500 with the V10 has never even contemplated getting any higher than 13 MPG under any conditions. Pulling my RV = 7 MPG.

[CincyGus]

Originally Posted by Flat_twin

I'm curious about how interest in a brand new truck got started when one has a perfectly good PAID FOR tow vehicle.

Stay away from dealership showrooms! If you're there for service don't go wandering too far from the service area. Looking is dangerous to the wallet.

Mine wasn't paid for and once the repairs started being more than the payment, It's days were numbered.


Click For Full-Size Image.

Plus who doesn't like a pretty new truck with 3338 lbs of payload vs. the 2300 the diesel had?

[PatrickY]

I got tired of reading through all the back and forth gas vs diesel blabber, so I skipped ahead … it's possible this has already been suggested.

The solution is simple. Keep your current truck (you can always sell it in a private sale) and buy the gasser.

Take your rig and DW on an identical trip with both TVs and ask DW to take notes - her thoughts and any comments you make along the way.

After you're done with both treks sit down at the kitchen table and make a pros and cons list. Weigh them both and dump the one you don't like - or keep them both - the diesel for travel and the gasser for around town - after all, you can't have too many toys!

An added thought - with two trucks you could get a boat and then one of you could tow the trailer and the other could pull the boat - think of how much more fun it would be camping on a lake if you had a boat or a couple of personal watercraft …

Problem solved!!!!

[Dakota 1120]

Originally Posted by cc102bob

HOLY MOLY! My RAM 3500 with the V10 has never even contemplated getting any higher than 13 MPG under any conditions. Pulling my RV = 7 MPG.

Wow ..... sounds like the people I talked to that drove a Ford F250 with V-10.

Once I did a few mods, stopped by the dealership for ??don't recall?? and they did an engine computer re-set. That made a huge difference.

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

It's not like the gas doesn't make torque, and really that is only going to apply to the first 1/2 of 1st gear, because as the gas will rev to 5000 rpm that diesel has to shift to 2nd at 1/2 the speed so now is getting much less torque through gear multiplication. The advantage of making torque at a higher RPM (aka horsepower) is the ability to use lower gear multiplication longer while accelerating. This is why the examples I posted above run faster 1/4 mile times with more horsepower. People overthink the the numbers, horsepower is already a math equation based on torque that has done the math. Like I said it is the only measure of power. Torque is just a force and without motion makes zero power.

I guess I still dont understand my eperience then. as I had a 2500 gasser with the 6.4 and a 3500 with the 6.7. Absolutely identical trucks except for the powertrain differences.
The 6.7 accelerates faster on an uphill onramp from a near dead stop with 13,000 pounds then the 6.4 with 10K pounds. It also accelerates while in motion on a hill in WV that the gasser actually drops speed on.. All this with 40 HP less with the diesel, but considerably more torque. Your example with gears also leaves me wondering, but perhaps that is a Ram thing. On one particular long uphill on ramp it would rev in first shift to second and fall on its face then back to first (sometimes) or just bog in second.. Wheres the 6.7 is settled nicely into 3rd and still accelerating at about 15 Mph greater speed with more weight?

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by CincyGus

Mine wasn't paid for and once the repairs started being more than the payment, It's days were numbered.


Click For Full-Size Image.

Plus who doesn't like a pretty new truck with 3338 lbs of payload vs. the 2300 the diesel had?

That is a GORGEOUS truck, I love that color.. But why only get 3338 lbs of payload when you can get 4400 LBS?

[linedriver]

Originally Posted by CincyGus

Mine wasn't paid for and once the repairs started being more than the payment, It's days were numbered.


Click For Full-Size Image.

Plus who doesn't like a pretty new truck with 3338 lbs of payload vs. the 2300 the diesel had?

I had a 2014 Duramax and traded for a 2020 with a 6.6 gas. I pull a 8000 lb Coachmen. The 6.6 gas has more than enough power. I have been getting gas for $1.00 less than diesel. Plus went from 2014 to a 2020 for $14,000.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by ronheater70

I guess I still dont understand my eperience then. as I had a 2500 gasser with the 6.4 and a 3500 with the 6.7. Absolutely identical trucks except for the powertrain differences.
The 6.7 accelerates faster on an uphill onramp from a near dead stop with 13,000 pounds then the 6.4 with 10K pounds. It also accelerates while in motion on a hill in WV that the gasser actually drops speed on.. All this with 40 HP less with the diesel, but considerably more torque. Your example with gears also leaves me wondering, but perhaps that is a Ram thing. On one particular long uphill on ramp it would rev in first shift to second and fall on its face then back to first (sometimes) or just bog in second.. Wheres the 6.7 is settled nicely into 3rd and still accelerating at about 15 Mph greater speed with more weight?

TFLtruck had the no downshift problem with the Ram 6.4 as well. They didn't try and force it, just let the truck do what it wanted, but if it's sitting at 2500 rpm not accelerating and still has a lower gear to go into, it or you should downshift it. At 2500 rpm it's only making about 200 horsepower and needs the downshift to get it above 4000 rpm and back to making 400 horsepower.