Help- Need a new Tow Vehicle

[babock]

Originally Posted by HONDAMAN174

1350

That's pretty low towing a 7500# trailer. I take it you are over that number by quite a bit.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by HONDAMAN174

1350

WOW![emoji32]🤤 is all I can say.

[babock]

Originally Posted by bikendan

WOW![emoji32]�� is all I can say.

I was trying to not be so dramatic.

[VernDiesel]

Babock why would you think that? 7500 pounds. Use a CAT scale to adjust WDH and loading to set tongue weight towards say 900 pounds IE 12.0 percent. (10 to 15 percent range) Leaves him 450 pounds where he would not be able to feel it if he was a couple percent over gvwr.

Focus on replacing unloaded steer weight & getting tongue weight in range and unless you have a grossly oversized trailer for your truck the rest will normally fall in place. That said you still verify it on your scale slip that you are also within Max drive axle, receiver, CVWR & GVWR. Now you have a safe & stable tow set up according to the auto manufacturer & the SAE.

[Irobutterfly59]

What did you buy can't see name of vehicle.

[babock]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Babock why would you think that? 7500 pounds. Use a CAT scale to adjust WDH and loading to set tongue weight towards say 900 pounds IE 12.0 percent. (10 to 15 percent range) Leaves him 450 pounds where he would not be able to feel it if he was a couple percent over gvwr.

200 lb driver...150 pound passenger in front. 2 100# passengers in rear. You are already at 550# and you haven't put anything in the truck bed yet!


The point is, that is VERY low for a 1/2T pickup truck.

[HONDAMAN174]

Originally Posted by babock

That's pretty low towing a 7500# trailer. I take it you are over that number by quite a bit.

When Fully loaded for a 4+ days, about 300 over.

Most of the time we travel without firewood and use our propane pit along with not having water or generator cause it’s a hook up site so about zeros the number.

[VernDiesel]

Fair enough your example puts him 100 pounds over. If gvwr is 7k that’s 1.5 percent over. My priority would be to keep the tongue weight but he could also drop tongue weight to 10 percent to free up another 150 pounds.

My point is we should put the emphasis on helping & showing people how to concretely set up a safe stable tow rig staying within Mfgr specs especially with respects to steer axle weight & tongue weight (dramatically affects stability)and including max drive axle, receiver, CVWR, & GVWR. Instead of focusing on one less critical spec (you could be 4-5 percent over gvwr and never feel it) and giving people no help or constructive direction.

I think many people who have never used a CAT scale to take an overweight (out of spec) white knuckle rig to within spec safe & stable. (That’s without removing a pound) put WAY too much emphasis on payload (for what?) instead of again actually helping them.


BTW. BikenDan I would like your thoughts on this.

[bikendan]

Vern, I bow to your vast real world towing experience.
But as a retired firefighter/EMT, I saw way too many inexperienced people driving or towing over vehicle specs or their abilities.
You know how to handle that but the majority of RVers are not experienced towers.
So my opinions are really for the newbies or inexperienced.

[VernDiesel]

Don’t bow to me. I have no attitude towards anyone. It’s just things I see and perhaps naively hope to change over time on these forums. I know you often pipe in about payload with respects to Tundras & Ram 1500s. But I see them as competent as any other when looking into axle specs etc. More importantly I see payload always being addressed like it should be the focus. Well I get that it is typically the first spec to be exceeded but so what the things that help with it and other more important factors for stability & safety are not discussed.

As an EMT if you came to an RV accident the things that may have prevented the accident are not foremost addressed by payload or gvwr.

But rather primarily proper steer & tongue weight. Light steer weight is higher center of gravity skittish handling making for a roll prone rig when an emergency steer around occurs.

Too little tongue weight promotes a tow rig that accordions when pushed by semi bow wave instead of the truck and trailer only being pushed on & feeling if it is one solid unit so it easily gets pushed into sway. Plus leaves less than adequate traction on the drive tires.

Anyway I have no interest in berating anyone. I just want constructive change. You are a 17k post site team member. It takes people like you to affect & reinforce positive change. In this case it might start with recognizing that payload is secondary in resolving unsafe tow rig set ups. At minimum its Food for thought.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by moose074

While the eco boost was rated for higher hp and torque the 4:30 gearing in Tundra made up difference .....

I've got to hand it to Toyota, they really knew what they were doing when going with higher trans gear ratios and lower rear axle ratios. Most people completely ignore final drive ratio and think they've got a towing beast because the of the gear ratio. The 4.30 gears in the Tundra are almost identical, gear for gear, to 3.73's in the F150 (the 6 speed F150 models, that is).

[babock]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I've got to hand it to Toyota, they really knew what they were doing when going with higher trans gear ratios and lower rear axle ratios. Most people completely ignore final drive ratio and think they've got a towing beast because the of the gear ratio. The 4.30 gears in the Tundra are almost identical, gear for gear, to 3.73's in the F150 (the 6 speed F150 models, that is).

Yep...people don't understand that. That's why the 3.55 gear ratio with the new 10 speed is actually pretty darn low.

[babock]

All the 2018 RAM Ecodiesels that I looked at when I was looking at buying my truck were in the 1300s or less payload. Scratched them off my list.

[VernDiesel]

If I was going to look for relatively fuel efficient 1/2 ton gasser to tow the first one I would have to scratch off my list would be the f150 EB 2.7. Weak under rated axles, 3,350 max drive axle weight WTH? Not sure what their payload stickers say but common sense would tell you scratch that one for work and leave it for grocery getting.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I've got to hand it to Toyota, they really knew what they were doing when going with higher trans gear ratios and lower rear axle ratios. Most people completely ignore final drive ratio and think they've got a towing beast because the of the gear ratio. The 4.30 gears in the Tundra are almost identical, gear for gear, to 3.73's in the F150 (the 6 speed F150 models, that is).

My eco had six speed and 3:55 in the rear. Also as you know the parasitic loss in hp and torque claims to actual hp and torque reaching the rear wheels varies. BOTH were great trucks but I felt the Tundra accelerated and maintained speed at a lower rpm and with less effort than the Eco boost. Just my opinion based on having towed the same trailer with both trucks

[bikendan]

Vern, I meant nothing but respect to your towing knowledge and experience, by my bow comment.
I'm sorry that you took it differently.
You are someone who tows TTs as a job, so I respect your input.
My opinion comes from the vast majority of us who don't have your background and have limited resources to make decisions in towing vehicles.
My point about payload stickers is that it's a simple place to start, for the average person.
It doesn't replace doing the weighing and working the numbers.

[VernDiesel]

Bikendan I didn’t take it personal plus I have a sense of humor. Anyway it’s only about raising the bar & doing better for the people who come seeking help or to those just trying to learn.

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Fair enough your example puts him 100 pounds over. If gvwr is 7k that’s 1.5 percent over. My priority would be to keep the tongue weight but he could also drop tongue weight to 10 percent to free up another 150 pounds.

My point is we should put the emphasis on helping & showing people how to concretely set up a safe stable tow rig staying within Mfgr specs especially with respects to steer axle weight & tongue weight (dramatically affects stability)and including max drive axle, receiver, CVWR, & GVWR. Instead of focusing on one less critical spec (you could be 4-5 percent over gvwr and never feel it) and giving people no help or constructive direction.

I think many people who have never used a CAT scale to take an overweight (out of spec) white knuckle rig to within spec safe & stable. (That’s without removing a pound) put WAY too much emphasis on payload (for what?) instead of again actually helping them.


BTW. BikenDan I would like your thoughts on this.

Many thanks to Vern .... he is a big help to many on here always moving toward fixing and recommending solutions ... he did that with me ... I even took my Model # out of my signature so I was not constantly being reminded I may be over payload ... I was told that after my 2nd post ... and to those reminding me it is fine and OK to do that and important to help everyone with that payload # ..... but there is so much more to towing than just that # ... i am a little over payload and well under on all the other #'s .... I have done all I can to build a better stronger truck .... 90% of my trips are 17 minutes south on I-75 and 32 minutes on a state road to my campground and the rig tows straight and stops fine .... and 25 years of towing helps also .... I think Vern is a good example of a complete and positive approach to what these forums are meant to do. And I say Thanks to everyone that help members everyday.... Frank

[gricardsimplycol]

Originally Posted by Irobutterfly59

Monday was to be our first excursion with our new camper and we had issues half way to our camp ground which was 2.5 hrs from our home.



Our TV 2015 1500 Ram Eco Diesel starting give low voltage, low battery messages going on and off. Then we started smelling diesel fuel in the truck. I looked in the mirror and could see diesel smoke coming from the back of truck. We got to gas station, husband left truck running and opened hood and smoke rolling from the engine. Long story headed back to RV place to drop camper and mechanics there said Oh boy, you blew an injector. Taking truck in next week(earliest they can schedule). Now this truck we bought in 2016 1 yr old with 20K miles on it. At 30K engine blew. They put in new engine. We now have 77K miles on it so it is covered until 100K for warranty.



We want to dump this vehicle and get something different. Our camper is 23ft Wildwood Lite and just hubby and I traveling.



We are looking at Toyota Tundra or Ford 150 even the Eco Boost to tow. I never want another diesel or Ram. Never had a Chevy. I have been reading on Toyota Tundra 2015 and 2016 had IBC issues that were really bad and folks put in P3 module. However in 2017 Toyota put out a fix for the IBC. So we would look at 2017 for Toyota or newer.



Thoughts on year and TV for us. We are really upset with our first attempt to camp but happy we made it home safely.

I have the 2017 tundra. I haul a dump trailer carring firewood. Many times a cord and half. Also ive hauled 4 to 6 tons of gravel. Ive had no issues and put 35, 0000 miles each year. My opinion you cant go wrong

[gricardsimplycol]

Originally Posted by CYAH OUT THERE!

Sorry for your troubles. We have towed 3 different TT with 2 different Toyota Tundras in the last 10 years. FWIW our recommendation would to NOT buy a Tundra to pull your sized rig. We love our Tundra and have pulled 2 hybrids and now pull a MiniLite 2502KS. You will not be happy pulling heavier than these smaller units. We are pondering a heavier unit in the future and will not do it unless we get a new TV. We are long time Toyota owners, we like them a lot!!. It will be hard to buy some other brand. Hope it all works out for you.

Not sure why you say this. I have and do do a dump 6x10 full to capacity with firewood . Not a single issue