Help with understanding 5th wheel

[CaptnJohn]

Probably a dually for that trailer. Had one and never again. Parking spaces are tough enough with a 250 or 350 without the added space needed for the duals. Just the two of us and we cannot come close to maxing our 30' 5er (about 35' total). Pin weight is the most concern, especially with a diesel as that engine weighs more but it will likely pull nearly anything you look at. That engine brake on the diesel is fantastic.

[philobeddoe]

With those weights, definitely dual rear wheels. The trailer weight alone is pushing the limits for what a 3/4 ton could do comfortably. The 3000lb pin weight would make me want a dually, just for the added stability at speed.

[Ultraboy]

As stated above, the F-450 also has a wider front end, and turns much tighter. My 42' triple axel 5th wheel toy hauler goes across the scales at 19,500 loaded, read to camp. Pin weight is only 18%, with the two full size Harley's in the back. I have a Titan 65 gallon under belly fuel tank, plus hitch weight, plus me, the wife and 4 dogs, so we are close on weight with my F-350 long bed dually diesel. This will probably be the last camper for us, but if I ever think of trading my truck, the next one will be an F-450.
Bottom line, one can never have too much truck!

[dicky1243]

Originally Posted by Buck1032

Weight numbers to determine a tow vehicle. I thought I had a basic understanding of this stuff, and the more we look into 5th wheels the more I realize I have no idea what I am doing. LOL Currently we have a 2013 Surveyor Sport SP260 that has fit our family well for the past three years. It is towed with a Ram 1500 5.9L with factory tow package. We know we have to upgrade to a newer TV when we make the jump to a 5th wheel.

Case in point, we looked at a Dutchman Voltage 3605 that has the dry weight of 13,555 and 2,992 hitch (is this also called pin?) weight. With a total max weight of 16,800. I have seen slightly different numbers depending on which site have looked at. I have trolled the Ford, Chevy and Ram site playing around building a truck to pull weight such as these. Again my 5th wheel knowledge is very slim, but I have seen many "large" 5th wheels being pulled by HD 250/2500 non dually trucks. Are all these people thumbing their nose at the Weight Police? Could someone help break this info down to a beginner lever and layman speak?

Yes that is the pin wt. and I would get a 1 ton tv and GMC gets better fuel milage than the rest. My dually gets 24 on the hwy. without trl. and wind and hills always affect towing mi. the lowest i've got was 11 and best in Az 17 mi.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by IronCobra

Consider a F450 if you are considering an F350. The pricing is so close that it just makes sense to have the larger axle, commercial tires, and far higher tow capacity.

I talk to a gentleman that had F450 and had trouble getting insurance because they claimed in was commercial truck and he would be required to be cover by a commercial policy that was very expensive. Did you have any trouble getting insurance?

[JeffLynn]

Go to your local RV dealer they have a book with the listings of what your truck can handle vai bumper or 5th wheel. I was surprised I was able to take on 1k more in weight without my truck being a 4x4. Make sure you see it in the book don't take the on the fly answer just so they can make a sale. I went to LazyDays (did not buy there) and they helped answer all my questions about weight and showed me in the book.

[IronCobra]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I talk to a gentleman that had F450 and had trouble getting insurance because they claimed in was commercial truck and he would be required to be cover by a commercial policy that was very expensive. Did you have any trouble getting insurance?

Only about 3 companies will register it as a commercial vehicle. I use State farm and they do not. Most dont

[IronCobra]

Originally Posted by dicky1243

Yes that is the pin wt. and I would get a 1 ton tv and GMC gets better fuel milage than the rest. My dually gets 24 on the hwy. without trl. and wind and hills always affect towing mi. the lowest i've got was 11 and best in Az 17 mi.

24mpg with a GMC dually? Sorry but I have to call BS unless your truck is going downhill ALWAYs. Reality for a 16 Duramax Dually is closer to 18mpg unloaded. If you get 24mpg I'll claim I get 25mpg with my F450

[sunnyinfla]

A 3500 or 4500 duallie should do ya.....

[dieselguy]

IronCobra ... he's probably seeing that on the "lie-o-meter" in the MPG dash readout. Coasting to a stop, My VW will read 99MPG just before it goes blank due to being out of range. If that is true calculated by gallons between fill-up milage ... he'd better never ever get rid of that truck.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by IronCobra

24mpg with a GMC dually? Sorry but I have to call BS unless your truck is going downhill ALWAYs. Reality for a 16 Duramax Dually is closer to 18mpg unloaded. If you get 24mpg I'll claim I get 25mpg with my F450

While I may not agree with 24mpg
I routinely get 20-21 .
From gauge to hand calculated I'm roughly .5 mpg off.
Avg on half tank.



2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"

[RJHuser]

I too get about 21 - 22 mpg running empty on the highway. Starts/stops are your enemy with a heavy truck like this - on my daily drive, a mix of state highways and local roads I average 13 - 14 mpg. This is both hand and machine calculated. On a fill up (36gallon tank) generally with in 1/2 gallon between pump and truck reading.
What I found interesting was recently had a long trip empty running 70 to 75 mph and I got better mileage than running 60 to 65 mph.
Towing our 16,000 lb. 5th wheel I get 12 to 13 mpg on the "flat lands", on the trip to Florida we are on now, including the mountains and such, we got 10 to 11 mpg

[TURBS]

Went to Nashville Tennessee last summer and averaged 12.1 there and back, drive straight through 10.5 hours little over 600 miles 14k Sabre


2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"

[X96mnn]

Originally Posted by Buck1032

Weight numbers to determine a tow vehicle. I thought I had a basic understanding of this stuff, and the more we look into 5th wheels the more I realize I have no idea what I am doing. LOL Currently we have a 2013 Surveyor Sport SP260 that has fit our family well for the past three years. It is towed with a Ram 1500 5.9L with factory tow package. We know we have to upgrade to a newer TV when we make the jump to a 5th wheel.

Case in point, we looked at a Dutchman Voltage 3605 that has the dry weight of 13,555 and 2,992 hitch (is this also called pin?) weight. With a total max weight of 16,800. I have seen slightly different numbers depending on which site have looked at. I have trolled the Ford, Chevy and Ram site playing around building a truck to pull weight such as these. Again my 5th wheel knowledge is very slim, but I have seen many "large" 5th wheels being pulled by HD 250/2500 non dually trucks. Are all these people thumbing their nose at the Weight Police? Could someone help break this info down to a beginner lever and layman speak?

It can be very confusing, you buy a truck that can pull 17000pds but it is almost impossible to connect 17000pds to the truck without maxing out the payload rating.

Answer to your question if all the 250s and 2500s hauling large 5th wheels are thumbing their noses. Not all of them, some of them may actually be in weight, big units can be light, some of them have no idea as their salesman told them it be fine, others are thumbing their noses flat out. I do not think it is at the weight police though, really and truly they are only giving advice and could care less what someone does to them sellf, if someone hits one of the guys though look out.

I Think your in 1 ton SRW territory. If. DRW does not scare you it is worth the $1200 by far. The advice on the 450, although completely unnessasery, is very good advice and most likely the route I would go.

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by Buck1032

Weight numbers to determine a tow vehicle. I thought I had a basic understanding of this stuff, and the more we look into 5th wheels the more I realize I have no idea what I am doing. LOL Currently we have a 2013 Surveyor Sport SP260 that has fit our family well for the past three years. It is towed with a Ram 1500 5.9L with factory tow package. We know we have to upgrade to a newer TV when we make the jump to a 5th wheel.

Case in point, we looked at a Dutchman Voltage 3605 that has the dry weight of 13,555 and 2,992 hitch (is this also called pin?) weight. With a total max weight of 16,800. I have seen slightly different numbers depending on which site have looked at. I have trolled the Ford, Chevy and Ram site playing around building a truck to pull weight such as these. Again my 5th wheel knowledge is very slim, but I have seen many "large" 5th wheels being pulled by HD 250/2500 non dually trucks. Are all these people thumbing their nose at the Weight Police? Could someone help break this info down to a beginner lever and layman speak?

Yes pretty much they are thumbing their nose, although the current vintage 2500's have some pretty impressive # for payload. A 2992 hitch weight (same as pin weight) is an awful lot for a 2500 SRW (single rear wheel) by the time you get all the gear and passneger in there..

One thing for sure, don't believe anything the dealer's tell you.

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by dicky1243

Yes that is the pin wt. and I would get a 1 ton tv and GMC gets better fuel milage than the rest. My dually gets 24 on the hwy. without trl. and wind and hills always affect towing mi. the lowest i've got was 11 and best in Az 17 mi.

WOW, that's a heck of a truck. My 2500 has never gotten over 18 unloaded and 16 with the slide in and 12 with the 5er. Maybe it's the altitude in Denver and up that taking all the fuel.

[Iwannacamp]

My experience with Ford 450 and 550 fuel mileage bites...consider that strongly.

My experiences are 08 and older fords.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Iwannacamp

My experience with Ford 450 and 550 fuel mileage bites...consider that strongly.

My experiences are 08 and older fords.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

I had an F450 once for a short time. It never passed a fuel station, loved them all.

[Buck1032]

We are not set on the Voltage, it was just one we saw a the RV Show in Atlanta. I used it as an example. However neither myself or the DW want a dually. Too much vehicle the few times she will have to drive it. So we will continue to look around and different toy haulers and look for much lighter max weights. The bikes we wish to haul are a Softail and a Dyna. We also have a Sporty that our 9 y/o isn't going to be riding for a while.

[DSQR]

Using the specs for my 2011 3500HD DRW along with OPs specs for a 16,800# fifth wheel w/3000# of hitch(pin) weight...
DRW payload (5122#), less OP's 3000# pin leaves 2100# of additional truck cargo capacity. SRW version of same truck (payload 4211#) less the 3000# pin cuts that additional cargo capacity to 1211#.
DRW max 5th wheel trailer capacity is 19,400# (a 2600# cushion). SRW version of same truck has a 5th wheel trailer capacity of 16,800# (No cushion - At the trucks upper limit)
Pin weight alone excludes the 2500HD trucks (Limited to 2500#) the 3500HD can take a 3500# pin. (same for SRW and DRW)
For me, its a 1-ton DRW diesel all the way.