Hensley Mfg posted this thought I would share !!

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by thebrakeman

Who cares whether you are preventing it, or controlling it?

From a serious engineering study conducted in Great Brittan (snaking = sway):

As mentioned in 2.2.7.1, anti-snaking devices incorporating a friction damper at the tow ball provide a fixed level of coulomb friction. This means that there is a constant level of energy dissipation per oscillation cycle, which implies that the equivalent linear damping decreases as the amplitude increases. There is a clear danger here, that the friction level will be sufficient for low amplitude stability but insufficient for high amplitude stability. The possibility arises that the coupled combination will become unstable as an immediate consequence of a particular disturbance.

Sway prevention eliminates of pivoting due to sway at the tow ball. You pay your money and take your chances.

[checkmate99]

Hensley is currently advertising their rebuilt Arrows for $1700. Still have lifetime warranty....that's $1000 less then new. They are in stock and ready to ship. I don't even own a Hensley, but thought if anyone was interested, that is a good price.

[itat]

Hensley and ProPride may be great hitches but they are very expensive. You could buy and have a dealer install a good 5th wheel hitch for that kind of money, probably less.

For those that use them, do they make any difference in weight transfer to the TV? If your TV is overloaded with a friction WDH, I suspect the Hensley and ProPride won't improve that issue.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by itat

Hensley and ProPride may be great hitches but they are very expensive. You could buy and have a dealer install a good 5th wheel hitch for that kind of money, probably less.

Ummm, what good is a 5th wheel hitch on a bumper pull trailer?

[itat]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

Ummm, what good is a 5th wheel hitch on a bumper pull trailer?

My point is that if you have to spend $1,500 - $2,000 to prevent a white knuckle towing experience with a TT, a 5er will guarantee you a better towing experience and the hitch will cost much less than that.

Nothing says you have to stick with a TT.

I see Can-Am RV Centre up here in London, ON pushing the hensley hitch to allow you to tow a 34' triple axle Airstream with a sedan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeHtnji0Sgk

I couldn't disagree more.

[18CrewDually]

Interesting that they used a triple axle (the most stable from the get go).

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by itat

My point is that if you have to spend $1,500 - $2,000 to prevent a white knuckle towing experience with a TT, a 5er will guarantee you a better towing experience and the hitch will cost much less than that.
Nothing says you have to stick with a TT.

No, don't HAVE to stick with a TT. But lets see, 5-10% more to buy a 5ver over an equivalent TT. Bigger truck to pull the 5ver - lots of TT's can be safely pulled by a half ton, not many 5vers. So, more money for the truck and ongoing more money for fuel. Burns up that $2000 pretty quick. You'll be upside down in no time. Plus the bigger truck with its rougher ride may not make folks happy if it's a daily driver. Plus with a TT, there are no inside steps.

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

Interesting that they used a triple axle (the most stable from the get go).

True, but they are pulling with a sedan! Wonder what the manufacturers numbers are on that TV. I suspect they have loaded the AS with a rather low tongue weight, may well be under 10%. Mainstream anti-sway hitch in that combo is asking for trouble. CanAm is known for setting up safe but interesting rig combo's. Note that they don't always use PP or Hensley hitches, they use the hitch that solves the problem.

[itat]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

No, don't HAVE to stick with a TT. But lets see, 5-10% more to buy a 5ver over an equivalent TT. Bigger truck to pull the 5ver - lots of TT's can be safely pulled by a half ton, not many 5vers. So, more money for the truck and ongoing more money for fuel. Burns up that $2000 pretty quick. You'll be upside down in no time. Plus the bigger truck with its rougher ride may not make folks happy if it's a daily driver. Plus with a TT, there are no inside steps.



True, but they are pulling with a sedan! Wonder what the manufacturers numbers are on that TV. I suspect they have loaded the AS with a rather low tongue weight, may well be under 10%. Mainstream anti-sway hitch in that combo is asking for trouble. CanAm is known for setting up safe but interesting rig combo's. Note that they don't always use PP or Hensley hitches, they use the hitch that solves the problem.

You don't have to buy everything new. Buy a good used 5er and a good used properly equipped TV and you won't be upside down due to depreciation. When I went from my F-150 with a 5.4L to my F-250 with a 6.2L gas I lost only about 2 mpg so not a huge difference.

Unless they do something I'm not aware of, the Hensley and ProPride only give you superior anti-sway, not superior weight distribution, so no matter what you're pulling you need a properly equipped TV to handle the weight of the tongue/pin.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by itat

You don't have to buy everything new. Buy a good used 5er and a good used properly equipped TV and you won't be upside down due to depreciation. When I went from my F-150 with a 5.4L to my F-250 with a 6.2L gas I lost only about 2 mpg so not a huge difference.

Unless they do something I'm not aware of, the Hensley and ProPride only give you superior anti-sway, not superior weight distribution, so no matter what you're pulling you need a properly equipped TV to handle the weight of the tongue/pin.

Who said anything about buying new? Used 5ver is still more $ than a similar TT. 2 MPH is >$6 a tank on my truck (2+ tanks a week), that WILL add up pretty quickly and the bigger truck is still less comfortable to drive. My comment on being underwater was the difference between the price of the hitch and cost of going to a 5ver. I am amazed by the number of folks who swear by the conventional hitches and admit to swapping new tires, adding spring helpers, air bags, etc.

One reason the Hensley design hitches are more expensive is that they are fabbed manually, one at a time. Custom work is expensive. The big mainstream conventionals are mass produced and many of the parts are stamped, forged, etc - significantly lowering the cost.

TT's come with a RECOMENDED TW of 10-15% to control sway. <10% on a conventional hitch is asking for trouble. >15% is overkill and may overload a TV axle.

Now consider, the Hensley design hitches CANNOT sway. They don't allow the wiggle at the ball. SO, is it reasonable to consider that TT's with one of these hitches could drive SAFELY with under 10%? I'd love to see someone with appropriate street creds test it.

Have you seen the FL Truck sway test? They pull a trailer with 0% tongue. They put an electronic gizmo on the trailer that controls the trailer brakes. Could not cause the trailer to sway. I don't like this solution because electronics fail and I don't want to be driving when they do. Plus, the braking solution will increase wear/cost of brakes and lower MPG.

Bottom line, what a "a properly equipped TV" is depends on the engineering that goes into both the TV and TT or 5ver. The Hensley hitches are good engineering. They just don't have the sales volume needed to convert manufacturing to a more cost effective model.

[Seachaser186]

I have been doing alot of research on these 2 hitches trying to decide which one to buy. I am not convinced the Propride is the better hitch based on claims it is a improved version of the older Hensley Arrow. Come to find out that is not entirely true and the Hensley has some differences that may make it a better hitch.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by Seachaser186

I have been doing alot of research on these 2 hitches trying to decide which one to buy. I am not convinced the Propride is the better hitch based on claims it is a improved version of the older Hensley Arrow. Come to find out that is not entirely true and the Hensley has some differences that may make it a better hitch.

Each has points. FWIW, I based my purchase decision on posts in a ProPride thread in the Airstream forum from a guy had one of each. He provided side by side pictures of the two hitches showing differences in fabrication. The analysis was a couple years ago, so Hensley may have acted on what was shown. Bottom line, I think you will be safer and have a less stressful towing experience with either. I know one advantage of Hensley is their offering of used/refurbed hitches.

One additional thing in my decision, though weak, I didn't want an orange hitch.

[thebrakeman]

Originally Posted by Restcure

We started camping in 2006 with a Dodge Caravan and a pop up trailer. After towing for one season with a weight carrying hitch, I upgraded to a weight distribution model, which made a world of difference. in 2008 the Caravan was replaced with a 2005 Toyota Sequoia that fall we sold the pop up and bought a travel trailer and an Equal-i-zer.

I was never comfortable towing with the Equal-i-zer, even after several attempts to dial it in... and my wife wanted to sell the trailer. A camping buddy had a similar combo and was towing it with a Hensley, and he told me about ProPride. I bought one in 2009 and installed it myself.

The experiences were night and day. From white knuckles on the highway with the Equal-i-zer to sway-free towing with the Pro-Pride.

So I've been on both sides. In my experience there's a world of difference between sway control and sway elimination. And I don't think it's fair dump on the Hensley or ProPride (or their owners) without having experienced one for yourself.

I never dumped on anything (or anybody). I said I cringe at the thought of so much money spent, without trying something that provides zero sway for the vast majority of people.

That does not include you. You tried the Equalizer, and it didn't work for your rig, for some reason. So you took the next step, which is the responsible thing to do. That's not dumping on you or anybody else. And I never said anything bad about the performance of these products. They work just as they are intended. But I think you may be assuming that my experience with the Equalizer is the same as yours. In reality, my experience with the Equalizer is just like your experience with the Propride. No white knuckling. Just smooth sailing. I have no reason to try something more expensive. But again, that's not a dump on you, just because you had a different experience. I'm urging people to try the $500 option before you go straight to the $2000 (?) solution.

[thebrakeman]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Do you consider 1,500 low or high? I've heard 1,500 spouted quite often.

Typical planning numbers that Ii've heard/used over the years:
Estimated weight of options and cargo, over dry weight:
600 lbs standard popup
800 lbs hi-wall popup or small hybrid
1000 lbs large hybrid or moderate TT
For very large TT or full-timers in 5ers, etc, all bets are off.

[thebrakeman]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

From a serious engineering study conducted in Great Brittan (snaking = sway):

As mentioned in 2.2.7.1, anti-snaking devices incorporating a friction damper at the tow ball provide a fixed level of coulomb friction. This means that there is a constant level of energy dissipation per oscillation cycle, which implies that the equivalent linear damping decreases as the amplitude increases. There is a clear danger here, that the friction level will be sufficient for low amplitude stability but insufficient for high amplitude stability. The possibility arises that the coupled combination will become unstable as an immediate consequence of a particular disturbance.

Sway prevention eliminates of pivoting due to sway at the tow ball. You pay your money and take your chances.

Sounds like a good article, I should look it up when I have more time. Working in the braking industry, I know what they mean about exceeding available friction. But also consider that if/when the available friction is exceeded, it's not like a light switch, where all hell will break loose.

My point wasn't to say that there no difference between preventing and eliminating. I'm saying that if I've had no sway events, having been in high crosswinds, emergency lane changes, passing semis, and combinations of such, I don't really care how my system is doing what it's doing (although I do understand how they work). Whether preventing or eliminating, I have a stable rig in all of these conditions.

[aceinspp]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

One additional thing in my decision, though weak, I didn't want an orange hitch.

Black can of fissel paint takes quick work of that. Later RJD

[goduc]

A properly loaded and designed trailer shouldn't need sway control. I've never seen a commercial TT hauler ever use a WD with sway control. Use the proper truck and setup your TT properly and all that's needed should be a WDH. FWIW I would never again buy a TT with the spread axles that are positioned toward the center of the TT to create a lower TW. My next TT will have the axles as far reward as possible by design. Too many TT's are not initially designed to tow properly as they're initially designed for layout.
Only reason for sway control to be added is if the TT isn't designed right, loaded right or the truck is undersized and or not setup properly.

[Seachaser186]

If you read the initial post you would see that a properly loaded TT by design can be challenging.

[goduc]

Originally Posted by Seachaser186

If you read the initial post you would see that a properly loaded TT by design can be challenging.

LOL, what would you expect a sway control WDH MFG to say? I won't knock anyone that wants to use sway control, especially the HA or PP. I just don't think it's necessary when everything's setup properly. I see sway control as a fix to a problem in one or more areas of the truck and trailer setup. Like I said if you have the right tow vehicle and a properly setup trailer than you shouldn't need sway control.
Unfortunately that isn't always the case. If you buy an over sized trailer for your truck then you need help. If you buy a poorly designed trailer you'll need help. If you load it up wrong then you'll need help.
I see most people needing sway control help are either towing too much trailer or are not setting up the WD right. If you want to tow a 35' 8000 lb TT with a 145" WB 1/2 ton truck then you probably need sway control.
Even though you're under the MFG tow ratings you're still beyond the physical limits of having to control 35' and 8000 lbs. Take that same 8000 lbs and put it on a 20' flat bed trailer and you will have a much better towing experience. Same would be with an 8000 lb boat where the axles are very far rearward. It's all about having the proper setup where both the trailer and tow vehicle are not working against each other.
This is why you need sway control. this guy was done being setup at the dealer and was heading to CA from Oregon. I have no idea if he made it or not. But I bet he changed his underware many times. I took this pic while picking up a TT for my son.
On the brite side, the TT's level.

[Seachaser186]

You make some good points and so does Hensley. I personally wouldn't chance and find out the hard way if I needed sway control or not. I hope your guy in the pic wasn't towing with his slide out, LOL.

[goduc]

No It's not me. My son had purchased a new TT and since it was his 1st he was a little intimidated so he wanted me to go do the PDI and pick it up for him. Plus he didn't want to take time off from work. The guy doing the PDI is actually the guy leaning into the Jeep talking to the new buyer. I asked the PDI guy if that's how they're sending him off? He said that the tech guys that do hitches told the Jeep guy that he needs some air bags since those Jeeps have soft suspensions. Really? Why would they sell that big A trailer to the guy knowing full well that it's too much for his Jeep? Thats when he told me the Jeep guy was taking off for CA latter today.
Whats even more ridiculous is that I have a 12 Ram 2500 CC LB 4x4 CTD and the TT I was picking up for my son was a really small Coachman Clipper 17CBH. They wanted to know If I had sway control. I said no and for that TT? they said it was for liability reasons. So they gave me a free drop stinger and added one of those funky friction sway control arms. The trailer only weighs around 2800 lbs dry. I barely knew it was back there.
I just found it so ironic that they make sure I'm good to go when I'm beyond overkill with my tow rig and yet they send that guy down the road on a 500+ mile trip with his setup totally out of whack.
Even the tech guy that setup my drop stinger commented on how big the truck was for the TT.