How are commercial vehicles able to exceed payload

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by moose074

Many of you have hit on my points of emphasis. I know these guys have to go thru weigh stations. I also know it’s incredibly unlikely that they are under the payload sticker on the door. While I have read but highly doubt that RV are being pulled over and weighed. Only to be left on the side of road because truck doesn’t have the payload or the driver doesn’t have some obscure license to drive the truck. Living in west Texas I see heavy loaded hot shot drivers daily. If being registered as a commercial vehicle is all it takes then wouldn’t all California trucks be excepted from payload sticker. Since supposedly all trucks are registered as commercial. Anyway I have read more than one thread where someone traded in for a bigger truck because they got pounded about their lack of payload and all the laws they were breaking.

I still have doubts that they are over their payload.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by moose074

Many of you have hit on my points of emphasis. I know these guys have to go thru weigh stations. I also know it’s incredibly unlikely that they are under the payload sticker on the door. While I have read but highly doubt that RV are being pulled over and weighed. Only to be left on the side of road because truck doesn’t have the payload or the driver doesn’t have some obscure license to drive the truck. Living in west Texas I see heavy loaded hot shot drivers daily. If being registered as a commercial vehicle is all it takes then wouldn’t all California trucks be excepted from payload sticker. Since supposedly all trucks are registered as commercial. Anyway I have read more than one thread where someone traded in for a bigger truck because they got pounded about their lack of payload and all the laws they were breaking.

I worked/trained at a CHP scale and the payload sticker on the door jamb is not the enforcement emphasis. It is not checked or examined while the vehicle(s) are rolling over the scales. Maximum axle weight is what is checked, a single axle cannot weigh more that 20,000lbs...with exceptions.
These Hot Shot truckers should be running less than 20,000 on their rear axle.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by upflying

I worked/trained at a CHP scale and the payload sticker on the door jamb is not the enforcement emphasis. It is not checked or examined while the vehicle(s) are rolling over the scales. Maximum axle weight is what is checked, a single axle cannot weigh more that 20,000lbs...with exceptions.
These Hot Shot truckers should be running less than 20,000 on their rear axle.

X2
They should also have the appropriate licenses plate for their registered weight. At least in IL so, a 1 ton dually can be registered to carry a maximum weight/total load of 32,000 LBS, this would be a Class K plate. This will cost the operator/owner of the truck $1063 a year in plate cost.

[Boris0119]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

X2
They should also have the appropriate licenses plate for their registered weight. At least in IL so, a 1 ton dually can be registered to carry a maximum weight/total load of 32,000 LBS, this would be a Class K plate. This will cost the operator/owner of the truck $1063 a year in plate cost.

Many states allow registration for weight on the tags themselves. I have been in law enforcement in 2 separate states over the past 40 years. Never once have I looked at the door sticker or have known of any officers in either state to consider the door sticker. It was all regulated by what the weight paid for on the Tags was. In NC yes you need a classified A regular drivers license if your rig is RV for personal use and has a GCVW# of over 26001. You do not need a CDL. The class A is obtained here by a written test ( same as used for CDL) and a road skills test (again same as CDL). You do not need to obtain the medical card that is required for CDL.


If as we are talking about here for the hot shot drivers. They need a CDL and the registered truck tag weight must meet or exceed the weight of the entire rig to include trailer and load. If it is an RV for personal use the tag can be just for the tow vehicle weight and not the trailer for tag along. If 5th wheel RV then the tag must be rated equal to the truck weight and payload in the truck to include pin weight. But not entire trailer weight.


I understand the safety factor that a lot of people keep discussing from being over weight of the door sticker, But in many states legal aspects this means nothing to the enforcement people and the tags and money charged for those tags is the driving factor.

[Blackrock]

FWIW there is a guy around here who has a hotshot rig. His F350 Only has fenders over the rear wheels with truck size mudflaps and a 5th wheel hitch. Other than that the frame is wide open with no body panels at all. It's not pretty just functional.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Blackrock

FWIW there is a guy around here who has a hotshot rig. His F350 Only has fenders over the rear wheels with truck size mudflaps and a 5th wheel hitch. Other than that the frame is wide open with no body panels at all. It's not pretty just functional.

Sounds like a good idea, removing the pickup bed adds cargo capacity.

[Hersbird]

So of those things weigh 5200 pounds each and one is behind and 2 in front of the trailer axle, and say a 5000 pound trailer with 2/3rd up front puts about 8500 pounds on the pin. Now that is also placed slightly in front of the rear axle of the pickup so some weight is on the front but most on the rear. Say 7500 pounds. A F450 is rated up to 6200 pounds but a F550 is good for over 12,000 pounds of payload. I agree you shouldn't be doing this with a F350 anymore than you should be running a 13,000 pound 5th wheel on a F150 even though the F150 probably could be under all limits.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

So of those things weigh 5200 pounds each and one is behind and 2 in front of the trailer axle, and say a 5000 pound trailer with 2/3rd up front puts about 8500 pounds on the pin. Now that is also placed slightly in front of the rear axle of the pickup so some weight is on the front but most on the rear. Say 7500 pounds. A F450 is rated up to 6200 pounds but a F550 is good for over 12,000 pounds of payload. I agree you shouldn't be doing this with a F350 anymore than you should be running a 13,000 pound 5th wheel on a F150 even though the F150 probably could be under all limits.

As I mentioned earlier, those Hot Shots are good for 20,000 on the rear axle when they roll through a scale. Doesn't matter what the payload sticker says.
The rear tandems on that gooseneck car trailer are good for 34,000 on the scales.
Those are rare GT500's on the trailer in the video.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a-t...n-the-freeway/

[Boris0119]

The biggest thing to remember about the DOT scales They are there to monitor the weights that axels and wheels put on the pavement to insure that the weights stay with in the engineering standards of the pavement and the fees that are charges for your weighted plates on the vehicles are what are governed. Not the ratings given by the vehicle manufacturers. These weights and fees are to be used for pavement maintenance purposes not anything else. They use a formula of weight distributed by axel per square inch and even the distance between axels has a bearing on these figures they are concerned with. As far as most DOT enforcement officers are concerned is the weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles less than or equal to the registered amount of the plates.

[moose074]

Again thank you I actually participated in a thread in which I basically state the same things based off the regulations given in the thread I felt the payload sticker was more informative and CYA for manufacturers. Than they were used as a way to fine overloaded RVs. It’s sad that a clear and concise answer can’t be agreed upon. In the thread “ over by a smudge” I believe the OP actually bought new tv before end of thread. Now he might have already been getting ready to buy and used thread as an excuse.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by moose074

Again thank you I actually participated in a thread in which I basically state the same things based off the regulations given in the thread I felt the payload sticker was more informative and CYA for manufacturers. Than they were used as a way to fine overloaded RVs. It’s sad that a clear and concise answer can’t be agreed upon. In the thread “ over by a smudge” I believe the OP actually bought new tv before end of thread. Now he might have already been getting ready to buy and used thread as an excuse.

The point made by this thread is great IMO. Basically a bunch of the literal weight police are saying payload rating by itself is meaningless and can be exceeded as long as the individual axle ratings are not.

Now the next time somebody posts up a pic of "can my truck tow this..." what do you want to bet the first thing asked for is the payload rating, not the axle ratings which is really what matters.

The real answer to the original question, "How are commercial vehicles allowed to exceed payload?" is everyone is allowed to exceed payload because payload by itself really isn't a regulation, just a recommendation.

[Boris0119]

One more piece of Information I have found when I was searching for my TV. Vehicle manufacturers under rate the payload stickers in order for the vehicle to be rated at the 10,000 pound gvwr or lower rating to make it easier for the purchaser to get financing. Under the federal banking laws a vehicle over a 10,000 gvwr are considered commercial vehicles for loans. There are many smaller banks and credit unions that do not add commercial loans in their federal charter. I belong to one of those credit unions and they will not finance anything over 10,000 gvwr and state it would be a violation of their charter.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

The real answer to the original question, "How are commercial vehicles allowed to exceed payload?" is everyone is allowed to exceed payload because payload by itself really isn't a regulation, just a recommendation.

Correct, payload is a manufacturer recommendation based on engineering, testing, regulations and product liability attorney input.
The manufacturer guarantees you will be able to carry and tow a certain amount. Exceed it, you become a test driver and if something happens, the manufacturer can limit their liability.

[D W]

More and more, DOT carriers are going to the WIM (Weigh In Motion) System with the use of transponders in the vehicle. Here in Alaska the weigh stations are being converted to the WIM System. The Port of Anchorage is totally WIM. No more stops and back-ups at the scales.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by Boris0119

One more piece of Information I have found when I was searching for my TV. Vehicle manufacturers under rate the payload stickers in order for the vehicle to be rated at the 10,000 pound gvwr or lower rating to make it easier for the purchaser to get financing. Under the federal banking laws a vehicle over a 10,000 gvwr are considered commercial vehicles for loans. There are many smaller banks and credit unions that do not add commercial loans in their federal charter. I belong to one of those credit unions and they will not finance anything over 10,000 gvwr and state it would be a violation of their charter.

That is only one of many reasons just about all 3/4 ton trucks GVWR at exactly 10K. Another big one is, when used commercially, you have to apply for, and display DOT numbers, and your drivers fall under DOT regs for keeping logs, drive time restrictions, etc.

The GVWR listed on your door sticker is a work of fiction. GM is now rating the 2500 at 10,650, but if you click the box on the order form for RPO code C7A, they put a 10K GVWR sticker on it so it stays out of the domain of the DOT. Exactly same truck, other than the sticker.

To me... Gross AXLE weight ratings are a true indication of capacity.

Tim

[SlowrideHD]

Originally Posted by Qwkynuf

Is there something wrong with your Caps Lock key?

Hey, at least he isn't using apostrophes on every third or fourth word like some posts. Makes them 'painful' to 'read' !!

[Blackrock]

Back in the olden days trucks had a max GVW tag. Usually a stamped metal tag with the serial number and GVW rating. I remember hauling hay with dads Ford F600 on 8.25x20 split rim wheels. I was a kid back then and didn't pay attention to what the scale weights were but we had to weigh at a DOT scale and always rolled through ok.

[jkoenig24]

"Is there something wrong with your Caps Lock key?"

NO! Any "extra" capitalization is appropriate for the message.

Next question.

[moose074]

I was bored so I went web searching ( still wish I had pics of a few I saw in person) It is amazing infinity trailers offered a 6 car hauler. I grabbed three screen shots from a different company because it appears to be a single rear wheel drive truck. Now Ford claims its class leading payload for its 2020 Superduty is 7850 ( highest ever). Just a quick FYI no point being made

[Mad Cow]

Originally Posted by 2Evil4U

They aren't allowed to exceed ratings and I'd wager neither of those rigs is even close. My 4x4 dually has a payload of 5650#. A comparable 2WD would be around 6k+. Those are light trailers and light loads.

Though on a different topic, I've often wondered why class 8 rigs don't have a GCWR.

They do, but in an alternative way. They have axle group ratings. A typical class 8 tractor trailer setup will have 12,000 lb on steer, and 32,000 each on the tractor and trailer axle groups. Many class 8 tractors are built with a gross weight of 90,000 lb in mind. If the tractor weighs in at 20K that leaves 70K worth of trailer they could pull. But unless one buys permits for beyond 80K gross, it means little.

And one can spec axles up to 23K each. So there is no definitive standard for GCWR. It is all in how one specs the tractor and trailer.

My semi tractor weighs in at just over 19K, my trailer weighs in at just over 12K, so I can comfortably put around 48K of cargo on the trailer,