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Old 08-05-2017, 10:40 AM   #1
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How close to towing limit for safety?

I have a Fleetwood Pop-up that weighs about 3000 lbs loaded and am considering buying a vehicle with a towing limit of 5000 lbs that will include an oil cooler. Will this set-up give me sufficient reserve capacity to tow over the Rockies?
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:03 AM   #2
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It isn't just about your towing capacity
What is your toung weight how much cargo in the tv
What's the cargo capacity of the tv
Does the trailer have brakes
Gearing and power on the tv will also need to be taken into account for towing through the mountains tains
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:07 AM   #3
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No. Go bigger. An SUV like the Chevy Tahoe will have a better tow capacity and payload rating. Plan your vehicle purchase off of the trailer's GVWR. Are you going to upgrade and go to a larger trailer in the future? Most do. Get a vehicle that will handle the update.

As for towing in the Rockies, you didn't say where you live, but there is 3% reduction in horsepower for every 1000' above sea level that you drive. If you are driving in the Denver area, you've lost more than 15% already. Farther west in the mountains climbing over Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 you will be at 11,000 feet - and you will have lost 33% of your horsepower. Years ago, cars and trucks sold in in the West had high-altitude carburetors with different jets for the fuel. All that is gone now; pretty much everything is fuel-injected nowadays. You might consider something like an F-150 with the dual turbo charged V-6. That will handle the Rockies really well. Research your tow vehicles first and find one that will handle the altitude and trailer. And the payload (passengers, gear, pets, etc.) that you will carry. All that weight counts against the tow rating of the vehicle.
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmkjr72 View Post
It isn't just about your towing capacity
What is your toung weight how much cargo in the tv
What's the cargo capacity of the tv
Does the trailer have brakes
Gearing and power on the tv will also need to be taken into account for towing through the mountains tains
The popup-trailers usually don't have trailer brakes, which might get exciting going downhill on a steep grade!! . Been there, done that. Never again.
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:08 PM   #5
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The popup-trailers usually don't have trailer brakes, which might get exciting going downhill on a steep grade!!
I have read before and I'm sure someone will confirm that any towed trailer above 1500# has to have supplemental brakes.
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:36 PM   #6
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I have read before and I'm sure someone will confirm that any towed trailer above 1500# has to have supplemental brakes.
Anything over 3000# in Michigan require brakes.
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rsdata View Post
I have read before and I'm sure someone will confirm that any towed trailer above 1500# has to have supplemental brakes.
same in California but only for camp and house trailers
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:05 PM   #8
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Everyone hit the key points but I will chime in because I have a setup like what you are considering.
First item-the basic specs are OK. My V6 Toyota FJ is good for 5000# and tows our 3500# trailer well with regard to handling and braking.
Second-as noted, you will absolutely need trailer brakes. If your TV does not have an integrated brake controller we are very pleased with our Techonsha P3.
Third and most important, in the mountains as elchilero53 summarized, is horsepower; at 260hp we are golden on flat land, but altitude makes such a difference I now carry and refer to Mountain Directory for Truckers which details all significant steep grades so that they can be avoided. At 7000 feet elevation my hp is down to 205hp, or about what my wife's old (2000) Taurus put out. At 11,000 ft I'm down to 175hp.
Rather than detour hundreds of miles last year we decided to exit Colorado through Vail. We ended up in first gear engine screaming as we climbing up the grade at 10mph. Good thing they have a pullout lane to stop and cool down-even with oil and aux trans coolers.
I am old school regarding cars and trucks so the new supercharged/turbocharged itty bitty engines scare me. That said, either of those options would solve my FJ's problems in the mountains. If you are looking at naturally aspirated gas engines I would recommend nothing less than a V8 engine.
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:48 PM   #9
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Pulling a single axel ~~ I like lots of cushion. Nothing like a blowout to see the rig all over multiple lanes with little cushion.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Sanquist View Post
I have a Fleetwood Pop-up that weighs about 3000 lbs loaded and am considering buying a vehicle with a towing limit of 5000 lbs that will include an oil cooler. Will this set-up give me sufficient reserve capacity to tow over the Rockies?
Since your PUP is not a FR product, need more info on your model.

Year and model info?
Does it have electric brakes?
What tow vehicles are you considering? It's the trans cooler that's important for towing.

Depending on what model you have, you could be fine with a v-6 vehicle with factory tow package.

But as a former owner of two popups, like many others, I have upgraded twice to bigger and heavier trailers.
I would've been better off having a better tow vehicle, at the beginning, instead of having buy another stronger tow vehicle twice.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:23 PM   #11
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I have a rig like the one you are talking about weight 2200 lbs empty. Over 3000 loaded. I would not want to pull thing with a small engine. Most auto manufactures recommend trailer brakes if what you pull anything over 1000 lbs. some states require brakes anywhere between 1000 and 3000. I pull mine with a Silverado K-2500 a little over kill but not white knuckled going somewhere . A smaller vechicle will pull it but there is no subsuite for cubic inches , it comes down to torque.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:40 PM   #12
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I live in Fort Collins, Colorado. I bought my setup specifically for camping in the Rockies. My TT is 2,975 pounds. My TV is a 4WD Tacoma SR5 automatic with factory tow package.

I have a sway bar and electric trailer breaks. The Tacoma tow package includes pre-wired for the breaks. All I had to do was add the controller.

My wife is a fantastic cook, which means there is LOTS of kitchen gear, a full refrigerator and freezer, and full cabinets.

I also carry 'stuff' in the truck bed: honda generator; 5 gal fuel; suitcase Zamp Solar panel; 4 lawn chairs; 2 folding tables; overflow food and 4-gal of water; my clothes; and back packing gear.

I always empty waste tanks before towing, but also always carry a full tank of fresh water.

My comfort speed for flat travel is 55-60 mph. I try to hold 55 for fuel economy (12 mph). The Tacoma will easily travel faster.

Going west out of Denver on I-70 my speed drags down to 40-45 mph. The Tacoma can handle more, but I'm conserving fuel on the steepest grades.

If I had a use for it, or thought I might upgrade to a larger trailer some day, I would have gone to the Tundra 4WD with tow package. I don't need a larger truck now or in the future.

Ok, so why 4WD? Let me assure you that in some of the campgrounds in the Rockies you need 4WD and 4-Low to pull 3000+ pounds on the gravel park roads. 4WD and 4-low are also handy when going down hill on the gravel park roads.
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:47 PM   #13
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One more thing on the Tacoma SR5, as equipped with the "power boost" it has a a towing capacity of 6,800 pounds. In TT terms, that means I should tow +/- 3400 pounds (1/2 the factory rating).
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjnlorrie View Post
Everyone hit the key points but I will chime in because I have a setup like what you are considering.
First item-the basic specs are OK. My V6 Toyota FJ is good for 5000# and tows our 3500# trailer well with regard to handling and braking.
Second-as noted, you will absolutely need trailer brakes. If your TV does not have an integrated brake controller we are very pleased with our Techonsha P3.
Third and most important, in the mountains as elchilero53 summarized, is horsepower; at 260hp we are golden on flat land, but altitude makes such a difference I now carry and refer to Mountain Directory for Truckers which details all significant steep grades so that they can be avoided. At 7000 feet elevation my hp is down to 205hp, or about what my wife's old (2000) Taurus put out. At 11,000 ft I'm down to 175hp.
Rather than detour hundreds of miles last year we decided to exit Colorado through Vail. We ended up in first gear engine screaming as we climbing up the grade at 10mph. Good thing they have a pullout lane to stop and cool down-even with oil and aux trans coolers.
I am old school regarding cars and trucks so the new supercharged/turbocharged itty bitty engines scare me. That said, either of those options would solve my FJ's problems in the mountains. If you are looking at naturally aspirated gas engines I would recommend nothing less than a V8 engine.
If you are going to tow in the mountains, get a turbo charged motor, they don't lose power like naturally aspirated motors do. One reason I love the twin turbo 3.5's in the F150's, they keep pulling like no tomorrow.
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rsdata View Post
I have read before and I'm sure someone will confirm that any towed trailer above 1500# has to have supplemental brakes.
It varies from state to state some as low as 1500 lbs and some have no requirement if the tv can stop the trailer within a set distance
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by elchilero53 View Post
The popup-trailers usually don't have trailer brakes, which might get exciting going downhill on a steep grade!! . Been there, done that. Never again.
That's funny both my vintage apache hard side pop ups came with brake axles on them and both have a gvwr of 3500 or less
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Old 08-05-2017, 10:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by pjnlorrie View Post
Everyone hit the key points but I will chime in because I have a setup like what you are considering.
First item-the basic specs are OK. My V6 Toyota FJ is good for 5000# and tows our 3500# trailer well with regard to handling and braking.
Second-as noted, you will absolutely need trailer brakes. If your TV does not have an integrated brake controller we are very pleased with our Techonsha P3.
Third and most important, in the mountains as elchilero53 summarized, is horsepower; at 260hp we are golden on flat land, but altitude makes such a difference I now carry and refer to Mountain Directory for Truckers which details all significant steep grades so that they can be avoided. At 7000 feet elevation my hp is down to 205hp, or about what my wife's old (2000) Taurus put out. At 11,000 ft I'm down to 175hp.
Rather than detour hundreds of miles last year we decided to exit Colorado through Vail. We ended up in first gear engine screaming as we climbing up the grade at 10mph. Good thing they have a pullout lane to stop and cool down-even with oil and aux trans coolers.
I am old school regarding cars and trucks so the new supercharged/turbocharged itty bitty engines scare me. That said, either of those options would solve my FJ's problems in the mountains. If you are looking at naturally aspirated gas engines I would recommend nothing less than a V8 engine.
I-70 going out of Vail east-bound is a 7% grade, so it is no wonder your rig was "screaming in 1st gear at 20 mph". This why I traded my 2014 Tahoe with a 5.3L NA engine and 6-speed tranny for a 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 with a 6.2L NA engine and 8-speed tranny, which is better for pulling in the mountains than the 5.3L. The Ford 3.5L twin turbo engines with the new 10-speed trannys are beasts in the mountains but at the expense of gas mileage. They will tow a 9000 lb trailer over Eisenhower at 60 mph without slowing down. So will the Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 6.2L and 8-speed but without turbos and using premium gas. If you will be doing a lot of pulling in the mountains, big V8s, turbo-charged small block V6s or diesels are the way to go.
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Old 08-05-2017, 10:23 PM   #18
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That's what the gears are for on your transmission. Use to run my Jayco 1206 popup across the divide on 90 at least once a year and towed it with a 1979 F150. Probably did it 4 or 5 times. Balance of brakes and using the transmission...no big deal and never over heated the brakes.
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Old 08-05-2017, 10:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jmkjr72 View Post
That's funny both my vintage apache hard side pop ups came with brake axles on them and both have a gvwr of 3500 or less
Had a Viking and Jayco popup, neither had electric brakes on them.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by elchilero53 View Post
No. Go bigger. An SUV like the Chevy Tahoe will have a better tow capacity and payload rating. Plan your vehicle purchase off of the trailer's GVWR. Are you going to upgrade and go to a larger trailer in the future? Most do. Get a vehicle that will handle the update.

As for towing in the Rockies, you didn't say where you live, but there is 3% reduction in horsepower for every 1000' above sea level that you drive. If you are driving in the Denver area, you've lost more than 15% already. Farther west in the mountains climbing over Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 you will be at 11,000 feet - and you will have lost 33% of your horsepower. Years ago, cars and trucks sold in in the West had high-altitude carburetors with different jets for the fuel. All that is gone now; pretty much everything is fuel-injected nowadays. You might consider something like an F-150 with the dual turbo charged V-6. That will handle the Rockies really well. Research your tow vehicles first and find one that will handle the altitude and trailer. And the payload (passengers, gear, pets, etc.) that you will carry. All that weight counts against the tow rating of the vehicle.
X2, go bigger!
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