Is a half ton enough to tow the 2509S?

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

SHORT ANSWER: without all the B.S. At that length range 20-25' you will be FINE. I towed our 28 2007 Jayco....7000 lbs, with a F150 and a Silverado 1500 from 2008 till 2017. it was fine.

X2!!

[ARhappycamper]

Your tongue weight will likely never be over 850 pounds. A 2017 (Gen 2 3.5eco) and up F150 aluminum body is what you want. HDPP must be ordered new. You won’t find one of those. Max Tow might be easier to find. Supercab will tend to have more payload capacity. If you can’t find a Max Tow, be sure and get the 3.55 gearing.

[Klitzy]

Not sure what your preference is on bed size, but I would search for the 6.5ft over the smaller 5ft. Extra wheel base will help in the handling department. My ideal 1/2 ton would be the max tow 6.2, 10 speed gm.

[njfishing]

The right 1/2 ton should pull your trailer with ease...

Looking at the specs for the 2509s your dry weights are 5300 with a tongue of 709.. Add 1000 pounds to the trailer for all your stuff and your at 6300 and a tongue weight of 820 pounds... Based on this I'd want a truck that could tow at least 7500 pounds and a payload of no less then 1400 pounds to account for the rest of the weight (people and cargo) you're going put in the truck.

First of all, towing anything over 5000 pounds most 1/2 ton truck manufactures require a weight distribution hitch and in my opinion, you don't want to tow without one and you want one with sway control..

Most any of the US half tons will pull it but some will pull it better then others.

Here's the quick and dirty of what I found when I was used truck shopping for the 3 major US brands.

What you're going to find with the Dodge is a lesser payload then most but a nicer unloaded ride and best in class interior. It has rear coil springs instead of leaf springs so it squats a good deal when loaded but nothing a weight distribution hitch can't solve.. I would opt for the towing package here since it's going to get you better gearing for long steep grades. This would have been my truck had I not had a 8400 pound trailer to tow around. 5.7 Hemi would not be my first engine choice as it's kind of a tired design and likely the poorest gas mileage of all.

The Chevy will have more payload then the Dodge, it will ride harder unloaded but better loaded since it has leaf springs. They chevy interior is probably the least desirable of the 3 mentioned here and if your buying used say 2018 or older, they lack some of the tech you'll find in others of the same years like adaptive cruise, lane keep assist if that's something you want. The 6.2 liter is the way to go... That engine is a beast and won't even break a sweat with the trailer you're talking about here and when towing your mileage will be better then the 5.3 You can probably get buy with the 5.3 but it's going to scream going up steep grades trying to maintain speed.

The ford will have best in class towing weights, payloads will be similar to Chevy and the 3.5 ecoboost is a real towing beast and fun to drive while not towing as well.... If you're buying used you want a 2017 or better since this is the year they refreshed the 3.5 and started adding some of the safety and tech stuff, if that's what you want. This is also when the 3.5 got the 10 speed and this trans is probably the best in class and great for towing. The interior isn't as nice as the Dodge but I think nicer then the chevy and very functional. You could also get by with the 5.0 here with the load you're going to be towing but I think the 3.5 eco is a much better choice since the turbos develop their torque at much lower rpms and the engine is not going to scream going up long steep grades. The 5.0 also didn't get the 10 speed until a few years later.


I think you'd be fine with any of the 3 mentioned above. One thing I'd want to be sure with any choice you make is having an extended range fuel tank. You'll likely be getting between 8 and 10 MPG towing and it gives you a lot more range so you don't have to stop every 200 miles for fuel.

Good luck with your search...

[dm6]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I live near a State Patrol scale house thai is rarely open but they leave the scale turned on and visible through the window.

When fully loaded and ready to leave on a trip I often drive across the scale and check weight on each axle, truck and trailer.

There's also enough room to repeat, backing up, moving over so only one side passes over the scale. I record weights of each wheel on one side and with some basic subtraction have a map of the weight on every tire/wheel/axle on my combination.

After the first trip or so I adjusted my load plan for proper tongue weight (currently 800 lbs mesured with a Sherline tongue weight scale) as well as proper axle weights on my truck.

Only essentials go camping with me[emoji41]

So that 800 pounds is with the trailer weighing 6500? Does that include propane, battery, WDH? Any water in the tank?

[dm6]

Originally Posted by njfishing

The right 1/2 ton should pull your trailer with ease...

Looking at the specs for the 2509s your dry weights are 5300 with a tongue of 709.. Add 1000 pounds to the trailer for all your stuff and your at 6300 and a tongue weight of 820 pounds... Based on this I'd want a truck that could tow at least 7500 pounds and a payload of no less then 1400 pounds to account for the rest of the weight (people and cargo) you're going put in the truck.

First of all, towing anything over 5000 pounds most 1/2 ton truck manufactures require a weight distribution hitch and in my opinion, you don't want to tow without one and you want one with sway control..

Most any of the US half tons will pull it but some will pull it better then others.

Here's the quick and dirty of what I found when I was used truck shopping for the 3 major US brands.

What you're going to find with the Dodge is a lesser payload then most but a nicer unloaded ride and best in class interior. It has rear coil springs instead of leaf springs so it squats a good deal when loaded but nothing a weight distribution hitch can't solve.. I would opt for the towing package here since it's going to get you better gearing for long steep grades. This would have been my truck had I not had a 8400 pound trailer to tow around. 5.7 Hemi would not be my first engine choice as it's kind of a tired design and likely the poorest gas mileage of all.

The Chevy will have more payload then the Dodge, it will ride harder unloaded but better loaded since it has leaf springs. They chevy interior is probably the least desirable of the 3 mentioned here and if your buying used say 2018 or older, they lack some of the tech you'll find in others of the same years like adaptive cruise, lane keep assist if that's something you want. The 6.2 liter is the way to go... That engine is a beast and won't even break a sweat with the trailer you're talking about here and when towing your mileage will be better then the 5.3 You can probably get buy with the 5.3 but it's going to scream going up steep grades trying to maintain speed.

The ford will have best in class towing weights, payloads will be similar to Chevy and the 3.5 ecoboost is a real towing beast and fun to drive while not towing as well.... If you're buying used you want a 2017 or better since this is the year they refreshed the 3.5 and started adding some of the safety and tech stuff, if that's what you want. This is also when the 3.5 got the 10 speed and this trans is probably the best in class and great for towing. The interior isn't as nice as the Dodge but I think nicer then the chevy and very functional. You could also get by with the 5.0 here with the load you're going to be towing but I think the 3.5 eco is a much better choice since the turbos develop their torque at much lower rpms and the engine is not going to scream going up long steep grades. The 5.0 also didn't get the 10 speed until a few years later.


I think you'd be fine with any of the 3 mentioned above. One thing I'd want to be sure with any choice you make is having an extended range fuel tank. You'll likely be getting between 8 and 10 MPG towing and it gives you a lot more range so you don't have to stop every 200 miles for fuel.

Good luck with your search...

Thank you so much for that very informative response. I have always had Chevys but will be open minded for this. The Tahoe this is replacing gets very little use (averaging less than 5,000 per year for the past 10 years) and this truck will probably get similar because I work from home and my wife doesn't work so we usually only need one car. The truck gets used for trips, hauling stuff, and when we need both cars so I likely will keep this for at least another 10 years (I have had the Tahoe 20!). Another SUV would definitely be better for the rest of the time when not towing, but that would limit the trailer options. I know there are some nice looking trailers that weigh under 4,000 but I am afraid once we start looking in person, the rest of the family is going to want something a little fancier and I don't want to truck to limit that. I can stick to that 25' limit though because that is about all the room I have to store it! I think I will first just go look at the 3 types in person to get an idea of what I like as it is hard to tell from the pictures. Then once I pick the one I like best, I will start looking for specific engines, rear ends, etc.

[ARhappycamper]

Originally Posted by njfishing

The right 1/2 ton should pull your trailer with ease...

Looking at the specs for the 2509s your dry weights are 5300 with a tongue of 709.. Add 1000 pounds to the trailer for all your stuff and your at 6300 and a tongue weight of 820 pounds... Based on this I'd want a truck that could tow at least 7500 pounds and a payload of no less then 1400 pounds to account for the rest of the weight (people and cargo) you're going put in the truck.

First of all, towing anything over 5000 pounds most 1/2 ton truck manufactures require a weight distribution hitch and in my opinion, you don't want to tow without one and you want one with sway control..

Most any of the US half tons will pull it but some will pull it better then others.

Here's the quick and dirty of what I found when I was used truck shopping for the 3 major US brands.

What you're going to find with the Dodge is a lesser payload then most but a nicer unloaded ride and best in class interior. It has rear coil springs instead of leaf springs so it squats a good deal when loaded but nothing a weight distribution hitch can't solve.. I would opt for the towing package here since it's going to get you better gearing for long steep grades. This would have been my truck had I not had a 8400 pound trailer to tow around. 5.7 Hemi would not be my first engine choice as it's kind of a tired design and likely the poorest gas mileage of all.

The Chevy will have more payload then the Dodge, it will ride harder unloaded but better loaded since it has leaf springs. They chevy interior is probably the least desirable of the 3 mentioned here and if your buying used say 2018 or older, they lack some of the tech you'll find in others of the same years like adaptive cruise, lane keep assist if that's something you want. The 6.2 liter is the way to go... That engine is a beast and won't even break a sweat with the trailer you're talking about here and when towing your mileage will be better then the 5.3 You can probably get buy with the 5.3 but it's going to scream going up steep grades trying to maintain speed.

The ford will have best in class towing weights, payloads will be similar to Chevy and the 3.5 ecoboost is a real towing beast and fun to drive while not towing as well.... If you're buying used you want a 2017 or better since this is the year they refreshed the 3.5 and started adding some of the safety and tech stuff, if that's what you want. This is also when the 3.5 got the 10 speed and this trans is probably the best in class and great for towing. The interior isn't as nice as the Dodge but I think nicer then the chevy and very functional. You could also get by with the 5.0 here with the load you're going to be towing but I think the 3.5 eco is a much better choice since the turbos develop their torque at much lower rpms and the engine is not going to scream going up long steep grades. The 5.0 also didn't get the 10 speed until a few years later.


I think you'd be fine with any of the 3 mentioned above. One thing I'd want to be sure with any choice you make is having an extended range fuel tank. You'll likely be getting between 8 and 10 MPG towing and it gives you a lot more range so you don't have to stop every 200 miles for fuel.

Good luck with your search...

The 5.0 would not be a great choice for towing. It requires 4k rpm often. You left out the 2.7eco. It is good up to about 7500 towing. 5.0 had the 10 speed 1 year later than the 3.5. 2.7 also. My 2013 has the same safety and towing tech as a 2017.

[ARhappycamper]

Originally Posted by dm6

Thank you so much for that very informative response. I have always had Chevys but will be open minded for this. The Tahoe this is replacing gets very little use (averaging less than 5,000 per year for the past 10 years) and this truck will probably get similar because I work from home and my wife doesn't work so we usually only need one car. The truck gets used for trips, hauling stuff, and when we need both cars so I likely will keep this for at least another 10 years (I have had the Tahoe 20!). Another SUV would definitely be better for the rest of the time when not towing, but that would limit the trailer options. I know there are some nice looking trailers that weigh under 4,000 but I am afraid once we start looking in person, the rest of the family is going to want something a little fancier and I don't want to truck to limit that. I can stick to that 25' limit though because that is about all the room I have to store it! I think I will first just go look at the 3 types in person to get an idea of what I like as it is hard to tell from the pictures. Then once I pick the one I like best, I will start looking for specific engines, rear ends, etc.

With any of the tow vehicles, you want 3.73 or 4.10 gearing but they are hard to find. Usually have to be ordered. F150 max tow has 3.55 but we are talking twin turbo 400+ hp.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by ARhappycamper

The 5.0 would not be a great choice for towing. It requires 4k rpm often. You left out the 2.7eco. It is good up to about 7500 towing. 5.0 had the 10 speed 1 year later than the 3.5. 2.7 also. My 2013 has the same safety and towing tech as a 2017.

Hogwash.

I pulled an 8,000lb trailer with the 5.0/3.73gears/6 speed auto...it performed great and got better mileage than my buddies 3.5 eco with a lighter trailer.

[njfishing]

Originally Posted by dm6

Thank you so much for that very informative response. I have always had Chevys but will be open minded for this. The Tahoe this is replacing gets very little use (averaging less than 5,000 per year for the past 10 years) and this truck will probably get similar because I work from home and my wife doesn't work so we usually only need one car. The truck gets used for trips, hauling stuff, and when we need both cars so I likely will keep this for at least another 10 years (I have had the Tahoe 20!). Another SUV would definitely be better for the rest of the time when not towing, but that would limit the trailer options. I know there are some nice looking trailers that weigh under 4,000 but I am afraid once we start looking in person, the rest of the family is going to want something a little fancier and I don't want to truck to limit that. I can stick to that 25' limit though because that is about all the room I have to store it! I think I will first just go look at the 3 types in person to get an idea of what I like as it is hard to tell from the pictures. Then once I pick the one I like best, I will start looking for specific engines, rear ends, etc.

My pleasure and sounds like a good plan. If you're looking for some head room in the towing department be sure and look at the payload stickers which are located on the drivers side door jam...Payload is king since you'll run out of it way before exceeding trailer weight limits. It will say passengers and cargo not to exceed X and X is different on all trucks, even in the same make year and model and trim. Don't trust the dealer to give you this number, often times they'll look it up on the manufacturer website and that number is total BS, it's a range, not actual. You want to see the payload sticker or have them take a photo of it for you. All things being equal, you'll also find the 2WD drive models and the lower trims will give you a little extra capacity, sometimes 300 or more and that means you'll be able to tow an additional 2000 pounds of trailer since only 15% of that weight transfers to the tongue.

[ARhappycamper]

Originally Posted by BigH

Hogwash.

I pulled an 8,000lb trailer with the 5.0/3.73gears/6 speed auto...it performed great and got better mileage than my buddies 3.5 eco with a lighter trailer.

If you care about mpg while towing you might as well stay home.
I do not believe your claim the 5.0 performed better than the 3.5 Ecobeast while towing heavier. Everyone prefers towing at 1500-2000 rpm as opposed to 4000 rpm. There is a reason Max Tow wasn’t available with the 5.0 and is the 3.5 Ecobeast. It’s ok tho. Lots of backward thinking Ecoboost haters out there. You are far from alone.
I get 9-11 mpg towing heavy. Normal.

[ARhappycamper]

Originally Posted by njfishing

My pleasure and sounds like a good plan. If you're looking for some head room in the towing department be sure and look at the payload stickers which are located on the drivers side door jam...Payload is king since you'll run out of it way before exceeding trailer weight limits. It will say passengers and cargo not to exceed X and X is different on all trucks, even in the same make year and model and trim. Don't trust the dealer to give you this number, often times they'll look it up on the manufacturer website and that number is total BS, it's a range, not actual. You want to see the payload sticker or have them take a photo of it for you. All things being equal, you'll also find the 2WD drive models and the lower trims will give you a little extra capacity, sometimes 300 or more and that means you'll be able to tow and additional 2000 pounds of trailer since only 15% of that weight transfers to the tongue.

This is excellent advice !

[BigH]

Originally Posted by ARhappycamper

If you care about mpg while towing you might as well stay home.
I do not believe your claim the 5.0 performed better than the 3.5 Ecobeast while towing heavier. Everyone prefers towing at 1500-2000 rpm as opposed to 4000 rpm. There is a reason Max Tow wasn’t available with the 5.0 and is the 3.5 Ecobeast. It’s ok tho. Lots of backward thinking Ecoboost haters out there. You are far from alone.
I get 9-11 mpg towing heavy. Normal.

Believe what you want, I'm talking about my actual experience...A hater is someone who puts down something they don't have any experience with...tell me about your experience with towing and the 5.0.

I'm not an eco hater and I didn't bash the 3.5. If I were to buy a new F150, I would buy the 3.5 but my 5.0 with over 2200lbs payload was a monster for a 1/2 ton and your limits on its capabilities are what I said they are..

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by dm6

So that 800 pounds is with the trailer weighing 6500? Does that include propane, battery, WDH? Any water in the tank?

Everything. Tongue weighed just before leaving house and axle weights (TV and TT) obtained on the way out of town.

Also carrying two spare 20# propane tanks, 10 gallons of gas, and a 28 gallon Rhino tote tank in the bed of my truck. Back seat has a Rad Rover e-bike in it.

Batteries are Battleborn and two of them are in a storage compartment. Back from the tongue and only weigh 66# combined instead of 66# each for my old tongue mounted Lead/Acid batteries.

Also have a 110# generator semi-permanently mounted on the rear bumper.

Something worth adding to the discussion, on most trailers the axles are not mounted at the mid-point front to rear. They are usually a notable distance aft so if moving weight from the front of the trailer to the rear, you do not get a pound for pound effect. On my trailer it's more like a 1/2 pound added to the rear for every pound removed from the tongue since the fulcrum is not in the center.

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by ARhappycamper

Everyone prefers towing at 1500-2000 rpm as opposed to 4000 rpm.
.

Although we might like to tow at 1500-2000 the reality is my 3.5 eco spins at 3200 RPMs. ( I lockout all the OD gears) I'd lug the engine trying to tow my trailer at 1500 RPMs

I love how a V8 sounds at 4000 RPMs I guess Ford knows that and pipes in the sound of a v8 revving when I hit the gas on my 3.5 Eco boost.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by Klitzy

Not sure what your preference is on bed size, but I would search for the 6.5ft over the smaller 5ft. Extra wheel base will help in the handling department. My ideal 1/2 ton would be the max tow 6.2, 10 speed gm.

That's exactly what I have and I love it. It pulls my trailer so much better than my 5.3 6 speed.

[Klitzy]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

That's exactly what I have and I love it. It pulls my trailer so much better than my 5.3 6 speed.

We upgraded from a similar truck to a 17 hd 6.0.....and that was a world of difference.lol.

[moose074]

I towed a longer heavier trailer with my Tundra and my eco boost. Mileage while towing was within .5 mpg between the two. I did have an equalizer WD with sway that I got when I towed the same trailer with a Ram 2500. I also felt that the F 350 crew long bed need the sway control provided by the hitch. I felt all 4 trucks towed the trailer great.

In response to an earlier post on the Tundra not having the power to get out of the way it’s own way on a test drive. While I respect your view and can’t argue your own opinion ( you did say there would be different opinions. I felt it did better than the eco boost between first gear in the Ford and the rearend gearing in Tundra they basically are the same gearing. I always found a small lag in turbo with the eco ( a great truck not bashing) when taking off or trying to pass. I felt the tundra was more responsive. I traded my 2014 Tundra I owned for almost two years for a used 2014 platinum 4x4 with the 36 gallon tank and only 3k miles on the odometer. It was a deal I couldn’t pass up. However 6 months later the wife wants a 5th wheel. So into a new f 350 I went.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by ARhappycamper

... HDPP must be ordered new. ...

... and they're available only as XLT Mid or lower.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/mod...ayload-package

Edit: In playing with their online build-to-order tool, it seems like it also must be a 6.5' SuperCrew.

[dm6]

One more thing I guess I can throw into this:

Are there any SUV's capable of something like this? The Expedition seems to have a lot of payload capacity. I saw a 2019 Expedition Max online that had a picture of the door stick and it said it had 1780 payload. However, I was looking at the Expedition capacities and while it says it has a 9,000 towing capacity, it also says it has a max tongue load of 900 pounds. I assume that is a limitation of the hitch receiver. So in something like this, you could have 600 pounds of passengers and still have 1,180 to spare, you are only limited to 900 pounds of tongue weight. That has not been brought up with any of the trucks before. Is there typically going to be a tongue weight restriction as well like this?