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Old 02-24-2020, 10:30 PM   #61
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payload

I have a new f150 Lariat, 3.5 EcoBoost. The payload is 1809 lbs. Plenty of payload and torque for your trailer and would be adequate up to about 9000 - 10000 pounds of trailer.

I drove a 3/4 ton Diesel for 12 years as a DD and it was quite comfortable but we downsized our truck and trailer recently. the lighter truck is more fun as a DD. If you are sure you you won't be switching to a larger/heavier trailer the lighter truck will be more comfortable as your DD and also get better mileage.
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Old 02-24-2020, 11:11 PM   #62
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I would go 3/4 ton myself, because I always have a tendency to upgrade my trailer. Also, Dodge all the way because of the repair costs. I would also always choose the diesel over the gas. We recently went from a 3/4 ton dodge diesel with 150K on it to a 2006 1 ton dodge diesel with only 70k on it. Anything newer and you get into def and regeneration and a whole boatload of trouble.
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:01 AM   #63
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I had a max-tow 1500 and bought an 8000 camper (3500 lbs below max towing capacity). Because of a front AC and slide the tongue weight put as right at my GVWR. I was never comfortable with that and traded for a 2500. Unless you are well within your specs and don't use the truck as a daily driver (for mileage), then you can't go wrong stepping up to the 3/4 or 1 ton.
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:34 AM   #64
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Question to the OP. Do you expect to get a larger camper in the future?
Yes: get the 2500.
No: stick with a 1500.

As for diesel vs gas, I have both. Only get a diesel if you plan to tow big. Otherwise the extra costs and maintenance for the diesel are just not worth it.
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:27 AM   #65
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I have a 2020 F250 XLT Diesel that I use as a daily driver and to tow my 5th wheel. I special ordered it to get those things I wanted without paying through the nose for stuff I didn’t need. I replaced a 2013 Chevy 2500 with the Duramax that was nickel and diming me to death after only 100K miles. The Ford rides better, has a bigger cab, is much more comfortable, gets better mileage and has a much better reliability rating. I like the idea of having a tow vehicle that will drag around anything I may decide to use it for. I would hate to buy a vehicle that limits my options in a future I can’t predict. Spend the time to do your homework and then buy something you like that will not restrict your options a few years down the road.
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:34 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by findthehumorinthings View Post
Question to the OP. Do you expect to get a larger camper in the future?
Yes: get the 2500.
No: stick with a 1500.

As for diesel vs gas, I have both. Only get a diesel if you plan to tow big. Otherwise the extra costs and maintenance for the diesel are just not worth it.
Curious as to the massive extra costs and maintenance the diesel has, and it must be massive cause it gets brought up frequently.
SO far in nearly 20K miles in a 2018 CTD 3500, vs 18K miles in a 2016 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi, its been a dead wash. Oil changes are more expensive but 1/2 as often. So far the only additional cost has been 100 dollars for fuel filters and 20 minutes of time in nearly 20K miles. Fuels is more expensive but depending on time of year I can come out slightly ahead, or slightly behind on fuel based on mileage driven.. Im just curious what all this extra maintenance and cost is about cause I haven't seen it.
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:47 AM   #67
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Curious as to the massive extra costs and maintenance the diesel has, and it must be massive cause it gets brought up frequently. [...] Fuels is more expensive but depending on time of year I can come out slightly ahead, or slightly behind on fuel based on mileage driven.. Im just curious what all this extra maintenance and cost is about cause I haven't seen it.
It's largely a red herring.

Oil changes. Fuel filters. DEF. In the end, a diesel will require one or two bills a year more than gas, at most.

Mostly, though, people conflate repairs with maintenance. Routine maintenance differences are in the noise level of the average person's budget. However, if something breaks, the cost of diesel engine repair is much higher, usually due to labor. In many cases, huge engine in a small space = complete cab removal = many hours of work.

Fuel. Diesel is about $0.10 - $0.25/gal more expensive in northern CO. About a quarter of the time, diesel is cheaper. When combined with my 3+ mpg increase, this is a net positive. Again, this is in the noise level of what I consider a significant expense, though.

So, I reject the "diesel is more expensive to operate" statements as hyperbole. The engines are incredibly comparable. Repairs are a different story.
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:58 AM   #68
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It's largely a red herring.

Oil changes. Fuel filters. DEF. In the end, a diesel will require one or two bills a year more than gas, at most.

Mostly, though, people conflate repairs with maintenance. Routine maintenance differences are in the noise level of the average person's budget. However, if something breaks, the cost of diesel engine repair is much higher, usually due to labor. In many cases, huge engine in a small space = complete cab removal = many hours of work.

Fuel. Diesel is about $0.10 - $0.25/gal more expensive in northern CO. About a quarter of the time, diesel is cheaper. When combined with my 3+ mpg increase, this is a net positive. Again, this is in the noise level of what I consider a significant expense, though.

So, I reject the "diesel is more expensive to operate" statements as hyperbole. The engines are incredibly comparable. Repairs are a different story.
That was pretty much my thoughts as well, people confuse the two sometimes. Repairs, those are more expensive!
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Old 02-25-2020, 01:55 PM   #69
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I'm not sure about the diesel oil changes being longer, the gas engines are out around 10K miles using the engine oil life monitor.

The diesels use fuel that around Pittsburgh PA is a $0.60 premium over regular unleaded gasoline.

Diesels cost much more for oil changes due to the quantity of oil needed and the larger filters.

Diesels require fuel filter maintenance, something that is unheard of in gasoline engines.

Diesels are known to have costly maintenance needs of the emissions systems, and you pay $10,000 extra to buy this inconvenience.

Diesels do typically cost more over the life of the vehicle.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:43 PM   #70
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I'm not sure about the diesel oil changes being longer, the gas engines are out around 10K miles using the engine oil life monitor.

The diesels use fuel that around Pittsburgh PA is a $0.60 premium over regular unleaded gasoline.

Diesels cost much more for oil changes due to the quantity of oil needed and the larger filters.

Diesels require fuel filter maintenance, something that is unheard of in gasoline engines.

Diesels are known to have costly maintenance needs of the emissions systems, and you pay $10,000 extra to buy this inconvenience.

Diesels do typically cost more over the life of the vehicle.
Fuel will admittedly vary by region and intended use, as I stated above for me sometimes I win with the increase mileage, sometimes I lose. Right now Im about 12 cents premium, however with the daily mileage difference in my 6.7 CTD vs the 6.4 Hemi, Im saving money on fuel purchases at the moment.
My manual suggests fuel filters every 15K miles so that is about 100 bucks every 14 months or so which I call even (for the record I changed fuel filters on Gas trucks also). Oil changes are suggested every 15K on my truck. For my Ram 6.4 Hemi I think at the time it was every 8K miles, so essentially two gas oil changes to one diesel change.
I dont know of any costly maintenance needs of emissions systems on late model trucks If something fails, then that will be costly however.

You pay a small premium up front for purchase price, That varies and is not written in stone. Sometimes it as little as 2K-3K depending on dealer.

Now the kicker is, you are not comparing apples to apples. All of this would be different if you were getting similar levels of towing performance and fuel economy, but your not. You are paying a premium in price for a premium in performance. Now if you don't want to buy a diesel to tow an 9K camper, then so be it, but at a certain weight Diesel in the only option and you have no choice. In between those is a big grey area and comes down to preference.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:51 PM   #71
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I have owned a lot of pickups, both gas and diesel. Been camping in one form or another since 1958, all over the world. Some places I would rather not go to again. The upshot is, I have come to prefer diesel pickups for the capacity to tow, the reliability, and durability. I would say there is very little operating cost difference between gas and diesel trucks unless something breaks. It seems everything on a diesel is at least $500 to fix. Even replacing the thermostats on the Duramax was quoted at $500..... It took me about 40 minutes to do the job myself with a cost of about $70 for parts. Everyone has a different approach to the tow vehicle problem and different views on brands and types. If a 1/2 ton will do the job for you then that is a cheaper solution than a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel. I once owned a Crown Vic with a towing package that was rated to 5000 Lbs. We had a small trailer but even so that poor car would strain on any serious grade. Nice ride though. Since a tow vehicle purchase (either new or used) is a considerable investment it is usually a good idea to try to forecast what you may be towing in 5 or 6 years and plan accordingly. DO a lot of research and a lot of test driving to find something you like, that has a good reliability record, and won’t put you in hock for 5 years. Consumer reports has some good reliability data and they don’t have any conflicts of interest.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:55 PM   #72
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Lots of answers but as they say "nobody has ever complained about having to much truck)! I bought a VERY nice used RAM 2500 with only 75,000 miles for less than $30k from Dave Smith Motors in ID. BEST truck I have ever had. The engine runs strong all day and I get about 12 mpg while towing and the engine brake will do all the work even going down steep mountain passes in the NW.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:58 PM   #73
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I'm not sure about the diesel oil changes being longer, the gas engines are out around 10K miles using the engine oil life monitor.

The diesels use fuel that around Pittsburgh PA is a $0.60 premium over regular unleaded gasoline.

Diesels cost much more for oil changes due to the quantity of oil needed and the larger filters.

Diesels require fuel filter maintenance, something that is unheard of in gasoline engines.

Diesels are known to have costly maintenance needs of the emissions systems, and you pay $10,000 extra to buy this inconvenience.

Diesels do typically cost more over the life of the vehicle.
For DIY, it takes about $40 to change the oil in my gasoline engine. It's about $110 for diesel. $70 difference * 1.5 = ~$100 per year (though my F-150 is still on the 3K mile program). Fuel filter is about $100 every 2 years = ~$50/year. Emissions systems don't require maintenance. They might break, but they don't require "costly maintenance." Drop ~$35/year on DEF. So, as I said, you're into it an extra 1 or 2 bills per year for maintenance.

The only people who pay $10K for the diesel are those that pay full MSRP for their trucks = nobody. Again, more hyperbole by inflating the cost of an engine by about 13% to make your point. Unnecessary.

Diesel isn't for everyone. Gasoline engines are quite capable and nice. Choose what you want, but choose based on bona fide reasons ... not invented nonsense on either side of the aisle.

I know plenty of people who have complained about having too much truck. I know a few who have 3/4 tons that wished they would have purchased a smaller, more forgiving 1/2 ton. I know two people who have duallies who are tires of buying 6 tires a pop and really wished they'd have just grabbed a SRW. And, I could go on. Not enough truck can be dangerous. Too much truck can have its own problems, too. "Go big or go home" isn't always the best play.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:22 PM   #74
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After tent camping for many years we started with a hard side pop-up that lasted many years, that morphed into a Lynx trailer and then our kids were grown and the trailer sat. We eventually sold the trailer but still traveled a lot using hotels, friends, and relatives. When we both about to retire my wife decided we should get another trailer. We decided to go small and started looking. Foolishly went to an RV show and looked at all the little trailers which were pretty neat but left little room to move around in. Lost my wife in the crowds and when I found her she was staring at the 5th wheels and talking to a salesman. She decided we “needed” a 5th wheel and I explained why we couldn’t have one. “My truck won’t handle that kind of load”. “Then buy one that will”. So now we have a 5th wheel and a diesel pick up truck. We both enjoy the 5th wheel and if we load up some of the grandkids we have room in the trailer and the crew cab truck both. I never worry about the terrain we are traveling through because the torque available is more than enough. Since we enjoy fishing at some remote spots I opted for a 4 wheel drive truck. For us, this is the ideal combination. Our initial purchases were made while we both worked and made sufficient income to pay cash for everything. Regardless of which trailer or tow vehicle meets your needs, some judicious planning and shopping are required to get what you need, even if it’s not exactly what you want. I would have loved to order a Lariat or Platinum edition of the F250 but I didn’t want to drop $80K + into a pickup truck. I got the bells and whistles I wanted, added some practical items and it works for me.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:56 PM   #75
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Awesome discussion. It really helps to hear all the inputs.

We have 3 cars: 2020 BMW X3 M40i, 2016 Acura TLX 4 door sedan and a 2015 BMW Z4 convertible fun car. There are 2 of us. If we get the 2109S, it will max the X3 but I can make it work. We will not get a truck if we buy the 2019S.

We went to Fun Time RV south of Ft Worth today, and that was AWESOME. They have over 800 trailers and priced to move. We found nothing else that we would want to tow with the X3. But we found the Vibe 28RL that we loved. It would require a truck. And I will get a 3/4 ton to pull it (trade in the TLX). As I mentioned earlier, I will be retired soon, so the truck will be for doing truck things, not commuting. I still haven't decided on gas vs diesel. In the used market, a 3 year old 3/4 ton with 50,000 miles runs about $6k cheaper for gas vs. diesel. We will never be full timers, but might go for longer trips one day. The 28RL should suit us well for that. At 6,700 lbs dry, I guess a 1/2 ton would be fine, but if it isn't a daily driver, why not go 3/4 or even 1 ton?
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:33 PM   #76
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It sounds like you are thinking this through pretty thoroughly. And that is good. Another thing to think about with the gas v. diesel is, if you plan on traveling to mountain destinations. The diesel will definitely give you a leg up here. Is it enough to warrant the diesel? Well, only you can answer that one. Your travel plans would dictate that.

Good luck.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:49 PM   #77
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Ram 3500 diesel but look out for factory tires

I have a 2018 Ram 3500 turbodiesel. My wife liked how it rode better than the 2500 and it has adjustable height air shocks in back so you can lower it about an inch which helps level out the trailer as well as the Aisin transmission.

I will point out that the factory tires, Firestone, that came on the truck were lousy. I blew out a a rear tire on I-10 between Santa Fe NM and Tucson AZ. Four inch hole in the sidewall. Put some good Michelin's on the truck so I am OK and glad I could get the spare down but a lot poorer.

Have no idea why manufacturer's put the cheapest possible tires on trucks and trailers. I once asked if I could pay for better tires and their response was "sorry - we can't give the factory tires away".
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:39 PM   #78
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You can get 2500 250 brand new for under 40 . don't know what bells and whistles you need . but 2500 double cab ele windows informant system , tow package for less then 38
MR.M, I initially dismissed your post as I am looking at used trucks. You are right that 2020 F250 XL gassers are about $37,500 new with what I want, which isn't much. I can find 3 year old ones for $24k with <50,000 miles. That's just crazy to me. With my $16k trade in, the new one would be $23k out the door and the used one would be $8700. Holy crap, I could go from my 3 year old TLX w/ 75,000 miles to a 3 year old F250 for $8700. Seems like a no brainer.

Oil burners of the same age and mies are about $6k more, so still have to decide on that.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:25 PM   #79
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what are your needs in a truck for now and the future
thats the way i would look at it
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