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Old 10-03-2022, 02:03 PM   #1
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Mid Size PU trucks

I have a friend that is moving into RVing. He is looking at purchasing a 20' trailer in the 3-4000 lbs range. They will use the tow vehicle as a daily driver also and the wife doesn't want to drive a full size PU. He was leaning towards a newer Ford Ranger with the upgraded turbo 4. Just wanted to know if anyone has experience with towing a trailer behind a midsize truck. Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated.
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Old 10-03-2022, 02:24 PM   #2
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I have a 20' TT that weighs approximately 4300 Lbs (loaded it says 6000 max). Remember that it's more than your pulling if you want to put stuff in the bed of the truck. I was looking at Rangers but moved up to the F150. When I looked at weights and capabilities; it looked like I would be maxed out (weight wise) with the Ranger. How you configure a vehicle greatly effects towing limits. A standard 1500 tow vehicle maxes out between 7500 and 9000 LBS. I also didn't want to have to upgrade the truck if I upgrade from the initial TT. Big decider is that my F150 gets 22 mpg on the highway when not pulling the TT and Ranger gets about the same.

None of this probably helped by my 2 cents - get what you want in both the truck and camper. Do your own fact finding about capabilities! Don't let a salesman talk you into anything. They are human but are sales driven.
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Old 10-03-2022, 03:35 PM   #3
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If they are going to need a new vehicle to tow with, then they should buy the trailer first and then buy the truck needed to tow it.

I would suggest they should get a half ton as well unless they really do end up with a 3000# trailer.

I had a Tacoma that was rated for towing 6500# but with our 23SS Roo (5200# loaded) in tow and just my lightest son on board with me, we were over its GVWR, and I have a family of 5. Fully loaded, the Roo was well under the Tacoma's max. tow rating and right at its max. tongue weight (650#). And it just didn't have the power I wanted when towing. I loved the Tacoma but you need the right tool for the job. I had originally bought the Tacoma thinking we'd get a high walled popup and I'm sure it would have been fine for that type of trailer. Current "mid-sized" pickups may be more capable than that Tacoma was but its best to pick the trailer first.
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Old 10-04-2022, 09:50 AM   #4
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I had a Tacoma when we bought our GeoPro G20BHS, at about 3600lbs empty. It handled well and was pretty stable and easy to tow, but power was the issue. It's just not very relaxing to cruise down the highway at 65 mph screaming in 3rd gear at the slightest incline. The Ranger may fair better, but I have no experience with it.



I only pulled the GeoPro with the Tacoma I think 3 times before I said "forget it" and moved up to a half ton truck and it was the best move ever. It also meant that when we moved up a size from the GeoPro, we didn't have to buy a new truck.
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Old 10-04-2022, 10:08 AM   #5
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He really needs to get the specs on the trailer and the truck to determine if it'll meet his needs.
Whatever he gets, it needs to have the 'tow package' on the truck.

It really depends on what year the truck is. Todays Ford Ranger is an entirely different animal than some older versions.
According to the Ford Motor page, a 2023 Ford Ranger with the tow package can tow up to 7,500 lbs. https://www.ford.com/trucks/ranger/
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Old 10-04-2022, 10:21 AM   #6
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the new ranger is rated at 7500 towing with the tow package, but does not come with brake controller. Because of some packages (auto braking) they want you to use the ford controller which is $280 plus install.
they are thinner than the F150 so seeing around the trailer might be tough, and not sure they make clip on mirrors for them. If I had of towed more than my boat I would have gone with the McKesh mirrors.

You should ask the ranger owners what they think of there rigs towing.
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Old 10-04-2022, 05:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Eh View Post
I have a friend that is moving into RVing. He is looking at purchasing a 20' trailer in the 3-4000 lbs range. They will use the tow vehicle as a daily driver also and the wife doesn't want to drive a full size PU. He was leaning towards a newer Ford Ranger with the upgraded turbo 4. Just wanted to know if anyone has experience with towing a trailer behind a midsize truck. Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated.
The LIMITING factor for all Tow Vehicles is the PAYLOAD rating (usually on a driver's door-jamb sticker), listed in the Specifications.

PAYLOAD includes all the the following:
-1- FUEL (±6 lb/gal)
-2- Passengers (total of all its)
-3- Gear in Truck CAB
-4- Gear in Truck BED
-5- Trailer DRY Weight (UVW, Unloaded Vehicle Weight),
..............as advertised or in Specifications
-6- Trailer Cargo (CCC, Cargo Carrying Capacity),
..............Gear/Food/Clothes/Misc Loaded in Trailer
-7- Tongue Weight of LOADED Trailer (UVW + CCC)
.............(usually 12-15% of LOADED Wt)
-8- Weight of any Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH)

It is important to note that the weights advertised or mentioned by salesmen are MINIMUM Weights as the trailer was delivered from the manufacturer, with NO ADDED WATER in tank, NO PROPANE in tank(s), NO BATTERY(ies), and the Tongue Weights you are told are also for any UNLOADED Trailer, with NONE of the above.

When you add all this up your friend MAY find that anything LESS THAN a FULL SIZE Truck WILL NOT HAUL all that weight around,

Your friend will also need to avoid going over the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) of his Rear axle, and the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR), the weight of the truck, trailer, and all that payload.

As others have mentioned, driving an OVERLOADED Truck is NOT Pleasant and is DANGEROUS

Also as others have suggested it is best to find the TRAILER FIRST, then ADD UP ALL PAYLOAD, THEN FIND A TRUCK that can handle the Specified Loads (PAYLOAD, GAWR, GCVWR)
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Old 10-04-2022, 05:30 PM   #8
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Payload capacity amount already factors in a full fuel tank but not the driver.
TOWING capacity amount normally already factors in the full fuel tank and a 150lb driver.

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Old 10-04-2022, 05:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
Payload capacity amount already factors in a full fuel tank but not the driver.
TOWING capacity amount normally already factors in the full fuel tank and a 150lb driver.
I don't believe this is true for ALL Truck manufacturers. I just purchased a new Toyota, and the Manual specifically includes Fuel and ALL passengers (including Driver) in the Payload Rating.

I suspect that on newer trucks the manufacturers MAY be trying to improve their Payload Rating, by re-defining it, this seems to be the case with Toyota, I do not know about any other manufacturers.
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Old 10-04-2022, 06:31 PM   #10
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FYI,

Payload on the new Ranger is 1,609 to 1,905 lbs
Payload on the new F150 is 1,310 to 2,238 lbs
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Coyote View Post
I don't believe this is true for ALL Truck manufacturers. I just purchased a new Toyota, and the Manual specifically includes Fuel and ALL passengers (including Driver) in the Payload Rating.

I suspect that on newer trucks the manufacturers MAY be trying to improve their Payload Rating, by re-defining it, this seems to be the case with Toyota, I do not know about any other manufacturers.

The manual on my 2021 Tundra states that available payload is total capacity minus the weight of occupants, so it is not taking a hit for fuel. I pulled up the 2022 Tundra manual and all I could find about it stated the same thing (that you don't have to account for fuel in the cargo capacity). I can't seem to find what you are referring to in the manual.


Page 180-181 of the 2022 manual:


Cargo capacity depends on the total weight of the occupants.
(Cargo capacity) = (Total load
capacity) — (Total weight of
occupants)
Steps for Determining Correct
Load Limit —
(1) Locate the statement “The
combined weight of occupants
and cargo should never exceed
XXX kg or XXX lbs.” on your
vehicle’s placard.
(2) Determine the combined
weight of the driver and passen-
gers that will be riding in your
vehicle.
(3) Subtract the combined
weight of the driver and passen-
gers from XXX kg or XXX lbs.
(4) The resulting figure equals
the available amount of cargo
and luggage load capacity.
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDR76 View Post
The manual on my 2021 Tundra states that available payload is total capacity minus the weight of occupants, so it is not taking a hit for fuel. I pulled up the 2022 Tundra manual and all I could find about it stated the same thing (that you don't have to account for fuel in the cargo capacity). I can't seem to find what you are referring to in the manual.


Page 180-181 of the 2022 manual:


Cargo capacity depends on the total weight of the occupants.
(Cargo capacity) = (Total load
capacity) — (Total weight of
occupants)
Steps for Determining Correct
Load Limit —
(1) Locate the statement “The
combined weight of occupants
and cargo should never exceed
XXX kg or XXX lbs.” on your
vehicle’s placard.
(2) Determine the combined
weight of the driver and passen-
gers that will be riding in your
vehicle.
(3) Subtract the combined
weight of the driver and passen-
gers from XXX kg or XXX lbs.
(4) The resulting figure equals
the available amount of cargo
and luggage load capacity.
Yea, what Old Coyote said, didn't sound right to me. That's the first time I've ever seen a Tundra owner make that claim.

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Old 10-05-2022, 12:41 PM   #13
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A little refresher...

Payload = GVWR minus curb weight.

Curb weight is the completely empty weight of the vehicle. Included in curb weight are all fluids, including a full tank of fuel. Basically, the way it comes from the factory and after the fuel tank is filled. In reality, that curb weight will creep upward as owners add things like floor mats, mud flaps, beefier shocks, bigger tires and any number of items. The only way to get a truly accurate payload capacity is to fill up the fuel tank and weigh the empty vehicle, because GVWR is your primary limiting factor. I'm not going to get into axle weight limits because those are not going to be a factor for the vast majority of people.

Max tow capacity = GCVWR minus (Curb weight + two 150 lb people + one 70 lb hitch).

SAE J2807 standards were revised a few years ago. Before that, only one 150 lb person was factored into the equation. Now it's two plus the hitch.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
Yea, what Old Coyote said, didn't sound right to me. That's the first time I've ever seen a Tundra owner make that claim.

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I apologize to bikendan and JDR76 and the others reading this thread. I was relying on my memory (bad mistake). JDR76 and bikendan are entirely correct. I must have had the thought in my mind from reading something similar either on this Forum or a Tundra Forum.

As everyone else (except me) knows FUEL IS NOT included in the Available Payload for a truck, it is assumed to have been accounted for by the manufacturer.

Carry on ....
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Coyote View Post
I apologize to bikendan and JDR76 and the others reading this thread. I was relying on my memory (bad mistake). JDR76 and bikendan are entirely correct. I must have had the thought in my mind from reading something similar either on this Forum or a Tundra Forum.

As everyone else (except me) knows FUEL IS NOT included in the Available Payload for a truck, it is assumed to have been accounted for by the manufacturer.

LOL, no need to apologize! The good news is that you just gained some usable payload in your Tundra!
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Old 10-05-2022, 02:28 PM   #16
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so as long as I drive around empty, I can get that new truck camper for my F150?
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:07 PM   #17
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The 2019+ Ranger will pull that trailer, no problem. The most likely limitation, provided the Ranger has the factory tow package, will be a 750# receiver load limitation. A brake controller will be required and is not offered as a factory option.

I have a 2019 Ranger 4x4 Lariat SuperCrew and pull a 2022 MiniLite 2109s with a 10K Equalizer WDH. I use strap on extended mirrors, although I can see fairly well around the camper. I also have a rear camera on the camper that is on the entire time I am driving.

Some real world info for my truck and trailer. Cat scale weights were with driver and DW in truck, 1/4 tank of fuel, bed loaded with minimal gear, camper loaded for a 3 day weekend camping trip, 15 gal fresh water, 0 gal gray or black.

Ranger: Limits CAT Scale
GCWR 12,500 10,080
GVWR 6,050 5,060
Front GAWR 3,130 2,620 w/WDH
Rear GAWR 3,370 3,080 w/WDH
Max Cargo 1,430 990 includes TT tongue weight
Max Towing 7,500 5,020
Max Tongue 750 760

Camper:
Camper GVWR 5,837 5,020
CCC 1,362
Empty Weight 4,475

(A preview of this info proved the columns will not stay aligned. No way to upload a table that I'm aware of for easier reading)

My best one way 400 mile trip mpg was 11.9 using 87 octane on Florida's flat highways with cruise control set at 60. Worse mpg was 9.5 using 87 octane, round trip 600 miles at 65-70 mph. I ran a 400 mile test with 93 octane driving 60-65 and did not see any improvement in mpg although there did "seem" to be better performance from the engine. On Florida's flat roadways, the higher performance just isn't needed.

The rig your friend is looking to purchase is much smaller and lighter than the 2109s. Again, tongue weight will be the area to watch, especially if the camper is a single axle rig.
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JimM2109S View Post
Code:
Ranger:	            Limits	        CAT Scale
GCWR	            12,500	           10,080 
GVWR	             6,050	            5,060 
Front GAWR	     3,130	            2,620 w/WDH
Rear GAWR	     3,370	            3,080 w/WDH
Max Cargo	     1,430	              990 includes TT tongue weight
Max Towing	     7,500	            5,020 
Max Tongue	       750	              760 

Camper:		
Camper GVWR	     5,837	            5,020 
CCC	             1,362	
Empty Weight	     4,475
(A preview of this info proved the columns will not stay aligned. No way to upload a table that I'm aware of for easier reading)

Using CODE tags around your table should clean it up a bit. You had a mix of spaces and tabs in the whitespace that made it a little harder, too.
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:45 PM   #19
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Raner web site

The Ranger 5G website has a lot of both information and opinion about towing with the current model. A new model will be out next year, and a PHEV the year after. I hope my Jeep can handle 2 more years. The PHEV might be ideal for me.


https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/forums/towing.28/
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Old 10-06-2022, 08:05 AM   #20
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I towed my current TT with a mid-size Nissan Frontier. It struggled, especially when climbing grades. 8mpg with a screaming V6 didnt cut it.
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