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Old 01-29-2019, 05:28 AM   #1
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Need Weight Clarification, Please....

Hello to All:

Well, the 2019 camping season will be starting off much sooner this year for me than usual as I'll be pulling my TT down to Daytona, FL starting February 8th for 10 days for the NASCAR Speedweeks events there, followed by seven more days immediately following, at the Atlanta Motor Speedway.

But I digress.....

First, my apologies for dredging up this type of thread again, which I know has been discussed ad nauseum here, however, I have searched and cannot find a specifically-related thread to my own questions / issues.

I had some major changes made to my Coachmen Clipper 17FQ over the winter, most specifically flipping the axle to give me greater ground clearance and I was able to upgrade from two (2) 13-inch wheels and tires to two (2) 14-inch wheels and tires (ST205/75R14) with 2,040 lbs. each weight-carrying capability.

I decided to do the Cat scales weighing of my trailer for the very first time. So, I read so many posts on here, other online articles, watched many Youtube videos, et.al. and felt like I knew what to do to properly weigh things out.

When I arrived to do my weighing, the lady running the scales told me I could not unhook my TT so that just the tongue jack alone was on the scale for my first weight measurement--to help determine what the tongue / hitch weight would be (right?)--meaning I would weigh the trailer alone with the two-wheels axle NOT on the scale and my Expedition not on the scale either.

She said if there wasn't enough weight on the scale, it would throw her scale calibrations off. (First question: is this true?)

So, she had me stay hooked up, and roll my TV onto the first (or farthest along of three) scale with my TT on the second (or the middle of three) scale.

This combined TV and TT weight came out to read as follows:

Steer Axle: 6,720 lbs
Drive Axle: 3,500 lbs
Gross Weight: 10,220 lbs


She then had me drive off, unhook the TT and drive just my vehicle back onto the first (i.e., farthest up) scale which came out reading:

Steer Axle: 6,080 lbs
Drive Axle: 0,000 lbs
Gross Weight: 6,080 lbs


She hand-wrote that the Trailer weight is: 4,140 lbs.

So with all this said, my questions are:

Is the 4,140 lbs. equal to the GVW of the trailer?


Knowing I've added on a second battery on the tongue, a second 20-lb propane tank on the tongue, carrying my (empty) 3500W Honda generator inside the TT (no water in any tanks at all), plus ALL my "stuff" packed everywhere, am I truly exceeding the sticker-listed GVWR of 3,518 lbs by 622 lbs?


How can I determine what the tongue (hitch) weight is given the weight measurements listed above?


Does this mean that the GVAW + Tongue / Hitch weight combined is 4,140 lbs so that I am already exceeding the combined tire weight-carrying capacity of 4,080 lbs.?


Do I need to off-load some things from the TT to the TV before I start my 1,200 mile journey from Michigan to Florida next week?



Sorry for the long-winded post but this is all been keeping me up at night and after having two tire blowouts on the way to Watkins Glen last August--on the same day! (but I was fully loaded with 30 gallons of fresh water too)--I'm a bit paranoid thinking I'm already carrying too much weight for both the TT axle AND the two brand new tires...

I'd appreciate all you camping veterans' thoughts and comments out there as to what I should do to get closer to my GVWR of 3,518 lbs. (And does this GVWR mean the GWA weight + tongue / hitch weight combined?)

Thank you all in advance!
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:03 AM   #2
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Need Weight Clarification, Please....

The simple way to always know what your tongue weight, is to purchase a Sherline Tongue Weight Scale.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:44 AM   #3
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Never unhook your trailer on the scale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This should be common sense. Sorry to be so harsh.

The big trucks need the scales to make a living never tie them up. As far as throwing her calibrations off I have no idea but CAT scales guarantee the truckers an accurate weight in court.

https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/


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Old 01-29-2019, 06:51 AM   #4
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it's pretty obvious the trailer weight is the 4,140 she hand wrote.

now look at the steer axle readings. i'm assuming here that both of the truck axles were on the first weigh pad (the steer axle). this seems to be the case as when you weighed the truck alone all the weight was on the steer axle pad. so in the first weigh there was 3,500 lbs on the drive axle pad. this has to be the weight of the trailer being carried by its axle. so take the 4,140 gross weight of the trailer and if 3,500 lbs of it is being carried by the trailer axles, then the pin weight is 640 (4,140 less 3,500).

i'll leave it to you to use these actual weights and compare them to the various weight ratings. you seem to understand them.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:52 AM   #5
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Is the 4,140 lbs. equal to the GVW of the trailer?

Yes, the capacity of the trailer appears to be 3518 lbs you have 4140 lbs trailer weight. 4140 lbs is the actual weight of the trailer so you are way overweight. Not surprising that you are blowing tires.l You need to lighten your load over 600 lbs

Some one please correct me if I am wrong ??

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Old 01-29-2019, 06:54 AM   #6
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Your weogh slip shows your trailer axle as your drive axle
It would have been better if you stopped both times with only your front axle on the first pad, your drive wheels on the 2nd pad and when hooked up- your trailer axle on the third pad. You may not have enough length to do this.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:09 AM   #7
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According to the Coachmen site the 17FQ has a GVWR of 3635 lbs and it actually weighed 4140 lbs, so that puts you 505 lbs over weight.

Even though you upgraded the tires, did you upgrade the axle? If you didn't I suspect that the axle is a 3500 lb axle so you're right at the max at 3500 lbs weighed. I'd be concerned about the springs and hanger hardware. Theoretically they should handle it, but we know how they like to design things right on the edge.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:23 AM   #8
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https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/

Then scroll down........................ to RVs

Check their site out and weigh by these instructions. Your TV (Truck) should have been on two pads to have a front and rear axle weight when solo. Also the weights for the combined (with trailer) steer axle and drive axle (rear) seem odd in she should have............... the set up should have been on 3 plates the TV on two the trailer on one.

I do she why she did it the way she did though. It gives you the trailer weight and the TV weight (loaded and without trailer).

Regardless the trailer weight is over capacity. Those numbers will not change.

Check out CAT scales web site
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:38 AM   #9
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You answered your own question. You are overweight. Maybe put generator in the truck bed and pack stuff in bins. Other options is to buy a new trailer. These are light weight Travel Trailer not designed for excessive weight.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:49 AM   #10
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In answer to your original post, yes, you may want to move some heavy items into the TV. I am assuming you have the payload with the Expedition since the TT tongue weight is around 600#. I don't know who's traveling with you, but I would put gear as far forward as you can so all the weight isn't sitting on the rear axle.
Good luck
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:29 AM   #11
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The weigh master directed you WRONG.
You should have had your steer axle on one scale, drive axle on the other, and TT on the third.
Park and remove trailer. Reweigh with TV drive and steer axles on seperate scales.
Optional second reweigh with trailer connected and weight distributing bars removed. This will show how much weigh gets removed from the tongue and pushed to the TV steer axle and some to the trailer axle.

With what you did:
It appears your tongue weight is 640#. Fully hooked up your TT axle is at its capacity limit, 3500#.
Since you don't have a true steer and drive axle weight for both readings, you cannot determine how much weight is being pushed to the drive axle or how near you are to your TV axle capacities. You can compare the values marked drive axle to your TV cargo capacity.

Yes, I would go through the trailer looking to remove items to save weight. Consider being able to resupply at your camping location.
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:04 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Oaklevel View Post
Never unhook your trailer on the scale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This should be common sense. Sorry to be so harsh.

The big trucks need the scales to make a living never tie them up.


I'm of the other train of thought...

The scales are not just there for truckers...they are there for anyone who needs that service!

If I waited in line to get my rig weighed, then the trucker(s) behind me can wait for me to get my numbers, just like I would have had to wait for those in front of me.

Kinda the same thing as RV'ers using the diesel truck lanes at the pumps at a truck stop...

Or RV'ers taking up parking spots to overnight at a truck stop.

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Old 01-29-2019, 11:38 AM   #13
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Thanks to all who have replied re: my questions.

I will say in reply to Oaklevel, that if it was "common sense" re: not unhooking the trailer on a scale, then how come the Coachmen Clipper's Owner Manual shows a picture of a trailer UNHOOKED with the wheels off the scale and just the tongue jack on the scale as a method of weighing? (I hope the attachment made it through ok showing this). I wouldn't have asked otherwise.

I do believe I need to do these weight measurements again using the correct method as many of you have mentioned about having the TV wheels on the first two scales and the trailer on the third scale. And I agree that I need to reallocate some of my trailer weight to my vehicle as well, or just do without some items that may be luxuries versus necessities.

Many thanks again to all who have helped me out and I also agree with you, JohnD10, that the scales are open to all to use. In fact, the weigh-master said as much by indicating she was listing me as "Personal Weighing".
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:16 PM   #14
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What Boomerweps said. It appears that you are way overweight.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PFLOYD75 View Post
Hello to All:

Well, the 2019 camping season will be starting off much sooner this year for me than usual as I'll be pulling my TT down to Daytona, FL starting February 8th for 10 days for the NASCAR Speedweeks events there, followed by seven more days immediately following, at the Atlanta Motor Speedway.

But I digress.....
Few of us are also going to be at Atlanta Nascar. Which CG do you have reserved?
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JohnD10 View Post
I'm of the other train of thought...

The scales are not just there for truckers...they are there for anyone who needs that service!

If I waited in line to get my rig weighed, then the trucker(s) behind me can wait for me to get my numbers, just like I would have had to wait for those in front of me.

Kinda the same thing as RV'ers using the diesel truck lanes at the pumps at a truck stop...

Or RV'ers taking up parking spots to overnight at a truck stop.

some days when hauling stone I may use a scale 10- 15 times a day (at the stone docks) and a scale will show me my weight and when I get out of the truck I can see the change of my weight and its real close and as far as unhooking on the scale at truck stops just do it , you have as much right as anyone and most likely know one will be waiting long
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PFLOYD75 View Post
Thanks to all who have replied re: my questions.

I will say in reply to Oaklevel, that if it was "common sense" re: not unhooking the trailer on a scale, then how come the Coachmen Clipper's Owner Manual shows a picture of a trailer UNHOOKED with the wheels off the scale and just the tongue jack on the scale as a method of weighing? (I hope the attachment made it through ok showing this). I wouldn't have asked otherwise.

I do believe I need to do these weight measurements again using the correct method as many of you have mentioned about having the TV wheels on the first two scales and the trailer on the third scale. And I agree that I need to reallocate some of my trailer weight to my vehicle as well, or just do without some items that may be luxuries versus necessities.

Many thanks again to all who have helped me out and I also agree with you, JohnD10, that the scales are open to all to use. In fact, the weigh-master said as much by indicating she was listing me as "Personal Weighing".
most if not all truck scales at a truck has 3 sections on it for rear middle and front axel so you can get all three is you put your truck on the scale right and not go by the pic above
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:40 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by PFLOYD75 View Post
I do believe I need to do these weight measurements again using the correct method...
Here are instructions:
How to Weigh a Travel Trailer | Learn To RV

And once you have the 3 weigh slips, here is a site that you can punch the numbers into:
Actual Weights - Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull Weights from CAT Scales - Towing Planner

Kudos to you for trying to go. Sorry you didn't get what you need the first time around.
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