New Member, and Potential Grey Wolf Purchase....

[jjump]

Hello all, totally new to this forum, and I wanted to join to get another opinion on….

You guessed it, what trailer to buy and can my vehicle tow it.

Just a bit of history, my wife and I have been “looking” for @ 6 months or so now, and we have narrowed our choice down to the Grey Wolf model due to the fact that the weight gets us into a useable range for towing. My vehicle is a 2014 Ram 1500. Not the trailering package per se, I have the towing package, but minus the 3.92 gear ratio, I have the higher (or lower) gear ratio of 3.21.

Hence why we narrowed our search down to the Grey Wolf line. My self and the kids have quads, usually it will be either me meeting up with my friends, or just taking the kids quads. Until they are older, I don’t see taking all of them.

With all the research we have done, it seemed the best choice was either the 19rr or the 21rr. Most of my discussions over at the Ram Forum helped lead me to this decision, based on not just the weight, but the length also. Then I come across a few websites where the 25rr and 26rr are pretty popular with half tons. I really hesitate talking to Dealers, they sometimes will tell you that you can tow anything, so I have been taking their advice with a grain of salt as they say.

Anyways, I was hoping to hear from some of you over here at Forest River, to see what some people actually bought and are towing.

As I stated, the 19rr and 21rr are our narrowed down choices, but I have not ruled out at least a 25rr. My concern leans more to the length, not just the weight.

My specs on my truck are:

2014 RAM 1500 4x4 Quad Cab Short bed
13,500 Max GCVW
3.21 axle ratio
Using 4 Passengers and 700 lb tongue weight
Towing is 7252 lbs

I of course want to come in under that, and I don’t think I will load the trailers to their max of over 3,000 lbs of cargo. My estimate puts me at 1500-1800 with two kids quad or one adult quad, full load of water and gear and food etc. Please correct me if those numbers are off. At 4100 and 4400 listed dry weights, that puts me at @ 6200 lbs, add another 500 for dealer fluff, and I am right around 6700 lbs.

That puts me at @ 500 lbs under max. Thas pretty close to 10% under max.

Anyways, thanks in advance for any insight into what the members over here are towing with.

Justin in Pittsburgh

[GlacierGus]

jjump, welcome to the forum. It's always a tough decision. There are so many models to chose from. All of them have some positives and some negatives. So at some point you just jump in with you best guess-what feels right to you. The important thing is that you are being reasonable with weight you want to tow.


I have a 2006 Durango 5.7 with the same gearing as you do and a towable weight of 7150. Our Mini Lite 2109S tows very well with this package. Your Ram has a larger "footprint" so you could go with a little longer TT if you wanted. The Mini Lite works well for a couple. A third person could sleep on the sofa bed. It's advertised for 2 on the sofa bed but that just doesn't look like it would work unless they were small children.


What I like about the Mini Lite is that there is no set up if you are only staying over night. You can pull into a Walmart and climb in your TT and you are all set. You can use the bathroom, bed, stove refrig etc without even putting the slide out. I camp primarily in state/national parks so the smaller size works well in the more rustic campgrounds which often have shorter sites.


So have fun. Half the fun is researching all the options. If you read this forum about quality issues, you will see that all brands, makes and models seem to have some problems. Just treat the TT as a hobby and enjoy working on it and making improvements (mods). I was certain that I was going to have "buyer's remorse" as soon as I got the Mini Lite home but that has never been a problem. I have enjoyed Rving right from the start.


Good luck with your quest!

[Ford Idaho]

I can not help you as I drive a "overloaded" 3/4T so I will just bid you welcome and good luck in your hunt.

[jgroff]

What tranny is in the truck ? 6 or 8 speed. U think with the 8 speed you would be ok. You have lots of truck. Just 3.21's aren't great for towing . I think with a few more gear options you would be fine

[jjump]

8 speed.....

[jgroff]

I think you should be ok. I pulled 7k with 3.55 and the 5 speed. I pulled pretty well all the time in 3rd gear with tons of power. So I would think you should be in 4th or 5th since the 8 speed has 2 od gears like the 5 and 6 speed

[bikendan]

i don't see your truck's payload capacity, in any of your numbers.
that's the Achilles's Heel of 1/2 trucks.

you'll find it on the driver's side door. find that number and post it.
you may find that you will run out of payload way before you run out of towing capacity.

[jjump]

According to the Ram Towing website, with 4 passengers i still have 1,000 lbs of payload left, but the sticker states the tires shouldnt exceed 1,500 lbs. So, math says a 6800 trailer should be around 10% or 680 lbs for the tongue, i shoukd be ok.

Now, thats with a 19rr or 21rr....but man the 25rr is starting to peak my interest.

[X96mnn]

You cannot go by the towing website, need to check the sticker on Your truck as you may be in for a nasty surprise. You may find you have about 1300 pds of payload on that truck before you add any aftermarket accessories, fuel and people.

My RAM 1500 had 1400pds as a very basic quad cab. It pulled about 8000pd camper that was a 30ft bumper to hitch. It had lots of power, pulled ok when there was no wind, wind caused me to be pushed around a bit. Had reese dual cam anti sway, friend had husky straight line up hitch and it was way better. I added E rated tires and airbags to help improve the squat and feel. Trailer was a bit light on the hitch and I would run with a full tank of fresh to help.

The campers you are looking at should have a hitch weight of around 13%. Where they will have quads in the back do your best to load up the front of the trailer. A light hitch weight can cause you sway.

Best of luck.

[jjump]

The website is not exact, but its close. The sticker states 1500, the website says 1460....

My plan after the RV Show in Pittsburgh this weekend is to load up the truck with the family and full tank of gas and get to a CAT scale and see where i am at before i buy anything.

And i have been worried about sway loading a quad into the back, thats one thing i wont know until i try, and im not real comfortable finding out that way if i do have an issue.

[X96mnn]

A good hitch can take some of the sway worry out of it for you. People can get weak in the knees about spending $1500 on a hitch but they are worth it when you have oddities like a back heavy camper and TV at its upper limits.

I found the reese dual cam hard to get set up right, had it installed by two separate dealers and they both messed it up. Found a thread on here that walked me through it and some you tube videos and made a big difference. I know the second dealer did not do it right as they never had the tow vehicle and the first dealer did very little right in general.

My friend with the husky straight line, seems to be a match better set up.

[jjump]

I was planning on using the Equalizer Hitch setup, after some research.

[Toby]

Our first FR was a 19RR. It was a great little trailer. I bought it because I thought my 2000 4.7L Tundra would pull it. It didn't do too well IMHO. I had to upgrade to a F150 which pulls it fine.

Anyway, about the trailer. If you have children camping with you then I wouldn't get the 19RR. It'll be way too crowded in there. That's just my opinion and speaking from experience. If it's just you and a spouse then it's a great rally trailer. The other drawback that I didn't like, is the entry door was in the rear so if you had toys inside you had to walk around them to get up front.

That's why our insurance company and I purchased the 25RR last year (after a nasty hailstorm destroyed the 19RR we had). It is a little larger and has two benches in the back. The entry door is closer to the tongue and just has a little more room in it.

What I don't like about my 25RR is the lack of storage space. No pantry and the BR closet is reduced significantly. They also don't wire a TV outlet in the BR. I think the little things (you don't think about when looking at it) weren't considered. Where do you put towels? How do you hang something in the closet and still close the door? Still, I like it better for our needs (although sometimes I miss our 19RR).

I'm not knocking the Tundra either. The later models would of towed it just fine. We just have a great Ford dealer in our area and no decent Toyota dealers around here to work with.

[jjump]

My plan for the 19rr, would be the optional bunk for one kid, the bench for the other, similar option for the 21rr, should we get that.

As for the 25r, i have read many that have half tons that are pulling this, but the length and added weight make me concerned, especially within my Ram's towing specs.

[jjump]

I posted this over in the Ram Forum.......


Ok all, I have posted a few times over the past year, and I have done as much research as I can to understand towing capabilities, tongue weights, GVWR’s, etc.

I believe I have asked the right questions and have armed myself with as much knowledge as possible to dive into the purchase of a Toy Hauler.

After many months of research and online shopping, and my second RV show coming up this weekend, I know what to look for, and I am ready to make the dive.

I have narrowed my search down to either the Forest River Grey Wolf 19rr or 21rr, based on weights, length’s, cost, etc. I know there are similar units from other supplies, even Forest River, but then the cost starts to go up, or the weights start to go up.

I am really pickled by the 25rr, but the extra little weight, and added length just don’t make the decision comfortable for me, but I like the 25rr layout better than the 21rr, but not sure I want to chance it. Especially due to the fact that I am likely going to have to travel outside of Pittsburgh to get my unit, and get it at a decent price.

So, here is where I am at. I used the figures from a 21rr, if I go to the 19rr, they are a bit less, so I will be OK. Using the tools from RAM, and my VIN number lookup, I think I got it figured out.

Though I have found an error between the Ram Towing website and the cargo sticker. The note for “payload” calls out anything in the bed of the truck, and the “sticker” calls out the total weight of cargo and occupants, that is the figure I am using.

I also plan to load the family and truck as I would for a weekend, and get it weighed on a CAT scale before I purchase anything.

2014 RAM 1500
Truck – 5,350 lbs
Family – 600 lbs ( we are under this, but I left it like this for growth, and that is what the calculator uses)
Trailer Hitch and Tongue – 800 lbs. (estimate)
Total Weight – 6,750 lbs.

The total weight of the family and hitch and tongue (1,400 lbs.) is 100 lbs. under the load max of 1,500 lbs.
The total weight of 6,750 is 150 under the trucks max GVWR of 6,900 lbs.
Based on the number from the trailer weight below, a 12% trailer tongue weight falls under the 800 lbs. I reserved above.

2014 Forest River Grey Wolf 21rr
21rr Hitch Dry Weight – 693 lbs.
21rr Shipped Weight – 4,337 lbs.
Planned Cargo – 2,000 lbs.
Total Weight – 6,337 lbs.
12% Hitch Weight – 761 lbs. (estimate)

The total weight of both vehicles is 13,087 lbs. 413 lbs. under my max GCVW of 13,500 lbs.
This isn’t ideal at 10% I would like to be at, but still under.

So do my numbers look right, am I on the right track?

[X96mnn]

This is just my opinion, I think the differance between the 21rr and the 25rr from a tow experiance is going to be the exact same.

The 21rr is 350pds less but it has a higher carry capacity so the two trailers are within a 100pds of each other fully loaded. The bumper to hitch on the 21rr is 27' while the 25rr comes in at 28.1'...a whopping 13" more. Your not going to notice either the weight or the extra length of the 25rr at the end of the day. The wheel base of your truck is very capable of either length. Pass 30ft some would argue.

My prediction if you loaded both campers up the exact same and towed them both over the same road and same conditions, you would not tell the differance.

This said your going to know there is a camper behind you once you load your quads and gear. Without the quads on my bet is you would not know there is a camper behind you.

Go with the one you like best. I would be putting a airlift 1000 kit in the back, on your truck it will cost you around $150 and if you can change a tire you have the ability to install it yourself. A good hitch and you will be having fun.

[fx2]

I would look at the numbers on the 25 and strongly strongly consider. Buy your second trailer first, it will cost you less in the long run.


Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums

[jjump]

hmmmmmm, this got me thinking now.

The 25rr has a much better layout, I have to seriously think about this one.

Thanks for all the input so far....

JJ in Pittsburgh

[jgroff]

I know if it were me I would be getting the 25RR like other people said above. and as for a good hitch I just ordered a propride 3p so if you never want to worry about it again get one of those or a Hensley arrow

[Safe man]

Will not recommend the forrest river WOLF PUP. Can not put very much in the camper or it will be over weight limit and the tires will get negative camber and wear out very quick. May even sell it for 2 cents.