NEW RVer - Flagstaff 25BDS & Escalade - UPGRADES?

[KlondikeMike]

Hi, we're retiring early next year and have settled on the Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS. It'll top out at about 5900 dry. We'll be towing with a 2006 Escalade AWD, with a 8100 tow capacity.

What upgrades would be wise for the Escalade? Thanks!

[Ken-m]

How much hitch capacity does a escalade have ? It's the payload you need to be concerned with . That trailers tongue weight is closer to 900 lbs in the real world .

[Ken-m]

I looked up your payload capacity, it's only 1484lbs , that's not much , considering the WDH alone is 100 lbs .

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by KlondikeMike

Hi, we're retiring early next year and have settled on the Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS. It'll top out at about 5900 dry. We'll be towing with a 2006 Escalade AWD, with a 8100 tow capacity.



What upgrades would be wise for the Escalade? Thanks!

I had a 2007 Avalanche. As was said, you need to focus on what the Escalade's payload capacity is, not its towing capacity. Especially with all the heavy bling it comes with.
Using 12% of the trailer's GVWR, gets you 900lbs for a ballpark loaded tongue weight. Subtract that, 100lbs for the WDH, the weights of everyone in the vehicle and any vehicle cargo from what the driver's door yellow payload sticker says. It'll say something like "Occupants and cargo should not exceed xxxxlbs". If you have anything leftover, you'll probably be OK.

[wildmanabe]

Always seen a lot of SUV's hauling a TT. I wonder to myself. Do they really know what damage they could be doing to the tranny, shocks, ect.. A 5/10 mile trip down road might not be that bad but a longer haul an just asking for trouble. RVing is like boating, before you leave stuff gotta be right. Cos the cost to call for help is going to get really $$$$$..

[KlondikeMike]

I really appreciate you all taking the time to help out a newbie. I am planning on taking shorter trips at first and work our way up to 2-3 long-distance trips with 6-8 -weeks duration.

I don't know any towing numbers except the SUV towing capacity & trailer weight. Is the payload the weight of the people/dogs, gear, water tank, beer (should I buy Lite beer to save weight etc? . I'm estimating that to be 1800 lbs or so.

For upgrades, I'm adding a heavy duty Curt hitch receiver with a 16000 lb towing and 2400 lb TW, oil/trans cooler, heavy duty brakes (rotors/calipers, etc), anti-sway control system & air lift.

Will that make this a safe rig or am I taking chances? Thank you everyone!

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by KlondikeMike

I really appreciate you all taking the time to help out a newbie. I am planning on taking shorter trips at first and work our way up to 2-3 long-distance trips with 6-8 -weeks duration.



I don't know any towing numbers except the SUV towing capacity & trailer weight. Is the payload the weight of the people/dogs, gear, water tank, beer (should I buy Lite beer to save weight etc? . I'm estimating that to be 1800 lbs or so.



For upgrades, I'm adding a heavy duty Curt hitch receiver with a 16000 lb towing and 2400 lb TW, oil/trans cooler, heavy duty brakes (rotors/calipers, etc), anti-sway control system & air lift.



Will that make this a safe rig or am I taking chances? Thank you everyone!

Did you not look at the driver's door sticker, that I spoke of in my previous post? Certainly you should be able read what it says since I described the wording on it. It will have the Escalade's payload capacity amount, from when it left the factory. Then you'll have a definite number to compare with what the total weights of everyone in the vehicle, WDH, vehicle cargo is. If you estimate that the amount will be around 1800lbs, I'll bet you'll be over the Escalade's max payload capacity.
It also sounds like your Escalade didn't have the factory tow package, by you adding a hitch receiver and trans cooler. What about a brake controller?

[D W]

Originally Posted by KlondikeMike

...
For upgrades, I'm adding a heavy duty Curt hitch receiver with a 16000 lb towing and 2400 lb TW, oil/trans cooler, heavy duty brakes (rotors/calipers, etc), anti-sway control system & air lift.

None of those things will increase your vehicle's GVWR. Like Bikendan stated, you need to take a look at the door sticker to get the bottom line.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by KlondikeMike

For upgrades, I'm adding a heavy duty Curt hitch receiver with a 16000 lb towing and 2400 lb TW, oil/trans cooler, heavy duty brakes (rotors/calipers, etc), anti-sway control system & air lift.

Will that make this a safe rig or am I taking chances? Thank you everyone!

Don't forget that the weight of all your upgrades comes out of payload capacity. The only way to be sure what you have left is to weigh the vehicle. See how much under GVWR you are and that tells you your true payload capacity - assuming you do not exceed the axle weight ratings on either axle.

[Ken-m]

Your going to be way over weight on payload capacity . You can throw the facts tongue weight out the window . It will be closer to 900lbs than 800 lbs . Plus your add on accessories to the vehicle you mentioned plus the weight distribution hitch. You will have nothing left.

[01tundra]

With a GVWR of 7,590 lbs and the fact that Mini/Micro Lites are tongue heavy (typically 12 -14%), you'll likely be pushing close to a 1,000 lb loaded tongue weight.

[bikendan]

My 2007 Avalanche LS, which is the same GM900 chassis as the OP's Escalade, had the factory tow package with the 3.73 rear end but only had a payload of a little over 1300lbs.
The OP has a much heavier blinged out Suburban that apparently doesn't even have the factory tow package.
I seriously doubt that it has anywhere near enough payload capacity for this trailer.

[Reverse_snowbird]

I have nothing to add to the advice. Just wanted to...

Welcome you to the forum and the rving lifestyle!

[pilotpip]

Your tow vehicle has to provide the same margin of safety regardless of the distance of travel.

Dry weight is a fictional number that needs to be ignored. What you should consider, is max weight. Then, estimate 15% of that will be tongue weight. I can tell you towing a 2509 (the same camper), I'm at 850-900lbs of tongue weight depending on how I load. Short of the "heavy duty payload package" it's at the maximum for gross weight and payload. Even then, with a growing family I'm looking at needing more than a 1/2 ton truck with it to stay good within the next couple years.

Based on what you have stated so far you're either going to need a different tow vehicle, or a smaller trailer if you're concerned with the numbers.

[bikendan]

Hopefully the OP will come back and provide some answers to our questions.

[KlondikeMike]

Thank you for all the input.

I do have the factory tow package on this 2006 Escalade.

A couple details I've gathered about the Escalade:
5537 lbs – MAX Gross 7000 lbs
345 hp @ 5200 rpm
Tow Capacity: 8100
MAX Payload: 1379 per door sticker

Trailer: 5754 Dry
590 Hitch Weight
54 gal fresh water

I'm removing the rear seats (saving 100 lbs) and making a level padded area for the dogs.

Between my wife and dogs, we weigh in at 500 lbs or so, which, if I understand correctly, leaves me with 289 lbs before I max out.

[Ken-m]

Originally Posted by KlondikeMike

Thank you for all the input.

I do have the factory tow package on this 2006 Escalade.

A couple details I've gathered about the Escalade:
5537 lbs – MAX Gross 7000 lbs
345 hp @ 5200 rpm
Tow Capacity: 8100
MAX Payload: 1379 per door sticker

Trailer: 5754 Dry
590 Hitch Weight
54 gal fresh water

I'm removing the rear seats (saving 100 lbs) and making a level padded area for the dogs.

Between my wife and dogs, we weigh in at 500 lbs or so, which, if I understand correctly, leaves me with 289 lbs before I max out.

No you don't ,did you add 100 pounds for weight distribution hitch , did you add 900 pounds as true tongue weight , not 590 pounds . Dogs and anything miscellaneous in the vehicle. Your way over payload, not even close . Either a different truck or different trailer .

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by KlondikeMike

Thank you for all the input.



I do have the factory tow package on this 2006 Escalade.



A couple details I've gathered about the Escalade:

5537 lbs – MAX Gross 7000 lbs

345 hp @ 5200 rpm

Tow Capacity: 8100

MAX Payload: 1379 per door sticker



Trailer: 5754 Dry

590 Hitch Weight

54 gal fresh water



I'm removing the rear seats (saving 100 lbs) and making a level padded area for the dogs.



Between my wife and dogs, we weigh in at 500 lbs or so, which, if I understand correctly, leaves me with 289 lbs before I max out.

1379lbs-
800lbs loaded tongue weight-
500lbs Occupants/dogs-
100lbs WDH=
21lbs over payload without factoring the rear bench seat.

The 800lbs loaded tongue weight could easily be higher, depending on trailer cargo and fresh water weight. Also weights of anything else in the Caddy, other than the two of you and dogs, will subtract payload.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by Ken-m

No you don't ,did you add 100 pounds for weight distribution hitch , did you add 900 pounds as true tongue weight , not 590 pounds . Dogs and anything miscellaneous in the vehicle. Your way over payload, not even close . Either a different truck or different trailer .

I completely agree. He is going to be over payload capacity, very easily.

[Rhumblefish]

yessirs, it's the song we are all too familiar with.

1. Welcome, KlondikeMike, and congrats on retirement.
2. Understood your desire to have the trailer of your dreams AND use your current Escalade.
3. Those listed weights (even with your estimated additions) are near-fictitious in the real world. (Tongue weight in particular)
4. While it's not the only number that's important, Payload is going to rule the day for you for a safe tow.

I have found that TT's can calculate an approximate REAL WORLD tongue weight by figuring 12% of CWVR. For you, that'd be about 910 lbs (which is dry weight + CCC (5754+1836) *.12) = a far cry from your absolute marketing dream of 590lbs.

To be safe, I'd suggest you should AT LEAST figure your tongue at 900lbs (and likely more, esp if you plan to tow with full fresh tanks).

We all know this is NOT what you want to hear. That your current Escalade is a brute, and that it should be able to pull this tiny little trailer with ease! (and, likely, it will be able to pull it). But you'll do so by overloading listed payload, and lightening the steering axle. You can correct for this to some extent with a WDH, but then you need to look at your hitch rating to see what it will support.

Real world experience is saying that you'll need as much weight distribution as you can manage (otherwise, your headlights will be pointed at the sky), and would really be better off (1) pulling with something else or (2) pulling something else.

And - again - this isn't even considering what the hitch limitations are on the Caddy, though. As it's body-on-frame, I'd figure you probably have plenty of hitch capacity.

If you have a dealership nearby, see if you can go by and get a real world weight on an empty 25BDS (and figure upward from there). Likewise, you can also ask around here to find out real tongue weights of 25BDS owners.

Hope this helps.