New To Forest River w/ tow vehicle questions

[Traveling Circus]

So no, I don't own a Toyota, nor have I ever owned one
Like I said, thank you
2008 Tundra, 306,000 miles, everyday driver, regular scheduled maintenance. 2016 Tundra, 65,000 no issues.

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by JDR76

So payload = GVWR - curb weight, unless the payload sticker says otherwise?

My rear seat weighs about 150 lbs. If I take it out, do I not gain 150 pounds of usable payload? Wait, no, because the sticker says 1185...so that's it?

Let me get this unimportant detail out of the way first: Were you to show up in a courtroom as a result of an incident with a truck that was carrying more weight than allowable by the payload sticker, you'd have an issue. You'd have to show/prove that your payload should be allowable to be different than the information/warning sticker on the truck. But that's conjecture nonsense and IS UNIMPORTANT.


But, yes - from an engineering perspective - if you remove 150 lbs of non-structural sprung weight from your truck (like removing your rear seat), then you effectively do increase your usable payload by 150 lbs.

Back to the comment about payload and GVWR and driver weight...


So, (GVWR) - (*YOUR curb weight) = *YOUR payload.

*Your curb weight being your TV as configured, wet (with all fluids and a full tank of gas), no passengers or drivers.

You won't be able to tow anything until you put a driver in the truck... and drivers count towards payload.

You've identified an 115 lb thumb on the scale that someone (be it an engineer or a lawyer or someone else) "added."

I'm suggesting that the 115 lbs isn't "found payload" insomuch as it's "figuring for a driver"

Of course, I'm doing it all tongue-in-cheek, fun, internet forum style. So that's probably an issue in clear communication.

Your truck has a sticker indicating 1,185 lbs is the payload. That's the effective payload as far as everyone who generated that sticker is concerned (Not the 1,300 lbs that you calculated using GVWR - Curb weight).

[JDR76]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

Let me get this unimportant detail out of the way first: Were you to show up in a courtroom as a result of an incident with a truck that was carrying more weight than allowable by the payload sticker, you'd have an issue. You'd have to show/prove that your payload should be allowable to be different than the information/warning sticker on the truck. But that's conjecture nonsense and IS UNIMPORTANT.


But, yes - from an engineering perspective - if you remove 150 lbs of non-structural sprung weight from your truck (like removing your rear seat), then you effectively do increase your usable payload by 150 lbs.

Back to the comment about payload and GVWR and driver weight...


So, (GVWR) - (*YOUR curb weight) = *YOUR payload.

*Your curb weight being your TV as configured, wet (with all fluids and a full tank of gas), no passengers or drivers.

You won't be able to tow anything until you put a driver in the truck... and drivers count towards payload.

You've identified an 115 lb thumb on the scale that someone (be it an engineer or a lawyer or someone else) "added."

I'm suggesting that the 115 lbs isn't "found payload" insomuch as it's "figuring for a driver"

Of course, I'm doing it all tongue-in-cheek, fun, internet forum style. So that's probably an issue in clear communication.

Your truck has a sticker indicating 1,185 lbs is the payload. That's the effective payload as far as everyone who generated that sticker is concerned (Not the 1,300 lbs that you calculated using GVWR - Curb weight).

Thanks for the comments. I'm enjoying the discussion.


I agree with all that you wrote, although it's clear from the driver side sticker that Toyota does not include the driver weight in the curb weight, so yes, it must come out of the available payload.


The good news is I just went on a diet, so I should have more payload left for cargo by the spring.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by GeoT

Thank you all for the great advice. I am going to the dealer at the end of the week to look at some of the door stickers to get a better look at the specs.

As mentioned before,....get the Tundra with a 'tow package'. You'll be able to tow more than a regular Tundra and it's easier on the truck.

[PhilFromMaine]

Originally Posted by GeoT

Thank You! I hopefully will be able to write off most of the truck as an expense on my small retirement business. I have an appointment with a financial person next week. Wish me luck. I almost passed out when I saw the loan rates for new vehicles.

I just got one with a 3.44 APR. Look around really hard. And OMG! the sales person is too busy to send you a snap shot of the door spec sticker? Walk, no run, away from that dealership!

[TN Bigfoot]

This calculator is helpful to determine safe towing capacity for truck and trailer.

https://brandonreid.github.io/truck-...ity/index.html

[monte]

I have the same TT and towed with 2020 F150 SCREW 10 speed 3.5 eco boost with max tow (but not max payload). Payload was 18+. Tongue weight was +-900 lbs. Using equalizer W/D 4point sway hitch. Had all of the towing power ever needed (locked out gears 9,10 when towing) but was not happy/comfortable with handling. especially wind and truck wash, Swapped for a 2020 F250 FX4 and the difference is night and day. I would say to get this size truck in whatever brand you want.

[dedobias]

0.14x 6900 lbs is 966 lbs of tongue plus my wife, myself and two dogs =1531 lbs with NOTHING else in the truck. You will be over on payload.

[Bigskidude]

I just wanted to mention a couple of other important attributes for a good tow vehicle. A tow package should include a transmission cooler/radiator to be effective over hills in the dead of summer. Additionally the package should include all wiring and connections for the electric trailer brake controller. I can't afford one of those fancy high end trucks and am not aware if they come with the electric brake controller as standard equipment, so I may be speaking out of line. My SUV was prewired for an aftermarket controller and I just had to plug it in and mount it.

Good luck. It doesn't sound like there is anything Mini or Lite about your new home away from home. Have fun.

[Jim S JR]

Buy a Ford.

[Traveling Circus]

Originally Posted by Jim S JR

Buy a Ford.

A few years ago, when I was in the market for a truck, I spoke with the owner of the Auto shop that is the busiest in my town. He says that they love Ford's. Keeps them busy. Now, I'm sure that's because there are more Ford trucks on the road than any other brand. My neighbor is a blue blood Ford guy and has never owned any other brand.
I eventually bought our second Tundra. Still a good decision for us.
Just buy something you'll be happy with.

[itat]

I’ve opined this many times here. The payload number on the sticker is for shopping purposes only as a comparison with other vehicles. You’re not likely the same weight as the standard assumes for the driver, and as soon as you own it, you’ll likely do some modifications and change the curb weight. As an owner, my goal is to stay under the GVWR, the RAWR and the GCWR. The only way to know is to take your setup to a scale, loaded and ready to camp with a full tank of fuel and all passengers on board.

The manufacturers all provide a safety factor in the weight rating numbers on the stickers and I don’t want to eat into that safety factor. It’ll come in handy when I get cut off or brake checked.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by itat

I’ve opined this many times here. The payload number on the sticker is for shopping purposes only as a comparison with other vehicles. You’re not likely the same weight as the standard assumes for the driver, and as soon as you own it, you’ll likely do some modifications and change the curb weight.

The payload sticker has nothing to do with the weight of the driver. Payload capacity on most vehicles is GVWR minus curb weight. Curb weight is the empty weight of the vehicle with all fluids, including fuel, topped off. Payload capacity is the max weight you can put in the vehicle. It includes the driver, all other passengers and anything else you put in the vehicle, including permanent additions, such as a canopy or tonneau cover.

[itat]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

The payload sticker has nothing to do with the weight of the driver. Payload capacity on most vehicles is GVWR minus curb weight. Curb weight is the empty weight of the vehicle with all fluids, including fuel, topped off. Payload capacity is the max weight you can put in the vehicle. It includes the driver, all other passengers and anything else you put in the vehicle, including permanent additions, such as a canopy or tonneau cover.

Thanks for correcting that. I think the 150# driver weight is only used in towing ratings?

Anyway, my main point about the payload rating no longer being valid after you start modding the vehicle is still valid. Obviously I’m talking about the weight of anything not permanently mounted on/in the vehicle. For example, when you have the bed sprayed with a liner like Line-X you lose that weight from the payload number. Ultimately, the GVWR is the maximum total vehicle weight recommended by the manufacturer.

[bikendan]

Yep, the 150lb driver is only factored in the Towing Capacity rating, not payload capacity.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

[Irene D]

Originally Posted by GeoT

I tried but they are "too busy". But not to busy to sell me one...LOL

I would tell them that if they are too busy to answer a future customer's questions, then you do not want to do business with them.

I had delay after delay with my Telluride due to the pandemic and to a ship full of Tellurides capsizing off the coast of Georgia, but the dealer answered all of my questions, even sending me the manifest when it was scheduled to be built, and texted me photos of it still on the truck when it arrived. Their service shop reflects the same kind of service and attention. I walked out of plenty of dealers prior to finding one that knows what customer service means. When my husband was looking for his truck in another state, the salesperson took a video of the inside, the outside, and the stickers and sent it to him. Yes, he bought from that salesperson. I would find another dealer willing to work with you as you search for the one that is right for you.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by Irene D

I would tell them that if they are too busy to answer a future customer's questions, then you do not want to do business with them.



I had delay after delay with my Telluride due to the pandemic and to a ship full of Tellurides capsizing off the coast of Georgia, but the dealer answered all of my questions, even sending me the manifest when it was scheduled to be built, and texted me photos of it still on the truck when it arrived. Their service shop reflects the same kind of service and attention. I walked out of plenty of dealers prior to finding one that knows what customer service means. When my husband was looking for his truck in another state, the salesperson took a video of the inside, the outside, and the stickers and sent it to him. Yes, he bought from that salesperson. I would find another dealer willing to work with you as you search for the one that is right for you.

As a former car salesman yes I would want to go take a picture and send, especially if the customer had come in person before, but when I sold our phone customers were few and far between and very rarely came in if ever( I don’t think in the 6 months I sold I ever had someone call and ask about a car or truck ever came to me. Now one a few occasions I would be walking back from bullpen and a customer was on the phone with the GMC dealership or our sister dealership ( another Lithia Chevy 20 miles away) trying to get them to start lower than us) of course with the shortage of vehicles the vehicle might be in transit on another lot or a deal is being worked with a customer on the lot.

[Irene D]

Originally Posted by moose074

As a former car salesman yes I would want to go take a picture and send, especially if the customer had come in person before, but when I sold our phone customers were few and far between and very rarely came in if ever( I don’t think in the 6 months I sold I ever had someone call and ask about a car or truck ever came to me. Now one a few occasions I would be walking back from bullpen and a customer was on the phone with the GMC dealership or our sister dealership ( another Lithia Chevy 20 miles away) trying to get them to start lower than us) of course with the shortage of vehicles the vehicle might be in transit on another lot or a deal is being worked with a customer on the lot.

There is definitely that side of it. However, even when I end up not buying (for other reasons), I do pass on the information of how well I was treated and how helpful someone was. My salesman was tops in sales for years. He didn't go out of his way to provide anything, but if you asked, he accommodated when he could. It is a tough job - no question.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Yep, the 150lb driver is only factored in the Towing Capacity rating, not payload capacity.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

Dan, Don’t forget the SAE standard for towing specs includes both a 150# driver and single 150# passenger as well as 100# for a WDH. Ford just started listing the standard towing passenger aspect last year or the year before in their Towing Guide.
Too much math gaming for me. Easier to weigh the truck to get the GVW and subtract that from the listed GVWR to get the remaking payload value and subtract the measured GVW from the GCWR to get the real, truck specific, remaining tow weight capacity.