New trailer towing issues

[Gojurick]

Joined this forum after researching my issues and hopefully I can gain more insight here. I think I know my problem, but want unbiased opinions. I will try to give as much information as I can.

TV is a 2007 Toyota Tundra with a 5.7. The TV is slightly lifted but has stock size tires and aftermarket trailer brake controller. I've towed many trailers/boats over the years with it without issue, but never one as long and as heavy as what we purchased. In looking for a trailer I kept all recommended weight limits in mind as well as the setup of the TV. We decided on a 2020 FR Grey Wolf 27RR toy hauler, GVWR 8010, UVW 6076. We purchased out of state, about 1200 miles away (too good a deal to pass up). We picked up the trailer and had an E2 WDH installed at the time. Since the garage on the TT was empty, it did sag the rear of the truck.

For the first 3 hours of the drive home it was back roads to another town where we picked up a RZR XP 1000. With that in the garage it lifted the front of the TT and the rear of the TV somewhat, but still some sag. From there we hit the highway and to say the drive home was white knuckles is an understatement. We did experience a lot of crosswind, which was no fun, but the worst was getting passed by the big rigs and getting that "sucked in" feeling. I kept my speeds down, which of course got me passed a lot but who cares. Safety first. I stopped frequently to verify everything looked okay, but it just never pulled the way I'm used to. Made it home okay in 2 days.

I decided the rear suspension of the TV needed a little help and got some air bags installed. Loaded the TT as we would for a trip and took it for a test drive. Truck was much more level and it seemed to help. The real issue came when we left for a 13 hour drive to Arizona. About 30 minutes in I just felt something wasn't right. Pulled over, checked the air bags and they seemed much too inflated (60 PSI). I dropped them down to 40 and went on my way. I should have listened to my gut because it still just didn't seem to be pulling as it should. Too much pull from the TT, some bounce and a little sway (can be the roads here). Pulled over, checked everything, it all looks good, but doesn't feel right. Continue on. About 3 hours in, just north of Salt Lake and I feel like I barely have control. Anyone whose driven though SLC knows I-15 is a mess and there was no way I was prepared. I pulled over, sat for about 30 minutes and informed my wife we were heading home. Still not a pleasant 3 1/2 hours but made it safely.

Since then I purchased a Weigh Safe hitch so I could see where my TW is. It sat at about 700, a little low. I played with air bag levels, hitch heights, moved some weight around in the TT and got it to 800, right around 10%. Put my WDH back on and took it for a drive. Still just doesn't track right. Decided to unload the RZR, that brought the HW to almost 1100, definitely too high for my TV. Decided to back the RZR into the garage so more weight would be towards the rear axle instead of the garage door. This brought the HW up to almost 900, more where I want to be. Put the WDH back on and back to the highway. Definitely better but not to the point where I would take it on an extended trip. So for now she sits in the garage.

If you made it this far, I am open to all thoughts, suggestions, sarcastic remarks, whatever you got. Do I need the trailer axles looked at (still under warranty), something else on the trailer or is my TV just not man enough for the job? I'm trying to borrow a larger truck to take it out to see if it pulls better but haven't gotten there yet.

TIA, I've already read through a lot of accident threads and I have no desire to post one of those. If I've left out any pertinent info just let me know.

[jd50i]

Sounds like the WDH wasn't set up properly leaving the dealer if it was sagging and the WDH should be readjusted when the RZR was loaded. Airbags don't transfer the weight the WDH does so all the airbags are going to do is make it look level but the weight will still be there.


I would recheck your weight numbers, a 27RR might be close to maxing out your Tundra.

[AlaskaErik]

Too much trailer for too little truck. A ¾ ton would be a much better TV for that trailer. The Tundra tends to have a low payload capacity, so I'm pretty sure you've exceeded the payload capacity for your Tundra. You may also be over your combined vehicle weight limit. I'd start with a trip to a CAT scale.

[llr]

10% TW is still low.
What is the payload on the door sticker of the truck?

Any time you have towing issues the 1st stop should be a CAT scale, at least a weight with weight distribution engaged and just the truck, one with the truck and trailer without weight distribution is good too.

This is the only true way to determine if it is a setup issue or you need more truck.

A better hitch with integrated sway control may help too. I use the Blue Ox Sway pro, many use the equalizer 4 point.

Post the results if you need help with the numbers and settings.

[RACarvalho]

Airbags will make your situation worst, besides the truck will look "level".
the reason is that airbags are good when the weight is in the cab over the rear axle.
When the weight is behind the rear axle, raising truck with airbags in fact reduce the weight in the front axle which reduce control and favors sway.
let the airbags deflated and set your WDH in a such way that the front of your truck is at the same hight when the camper is hitched as it was when the truck was empty.
That is a start.
I don't know your WDH but if you don't have a anti sway system, you should install one probably two of the below.
My camper is 9000lbs GVWR and I have two. I never had a problem with sway.
https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17200

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Gojurick

Joined this forum after researching my issues and hopefully I can gain more insight here. I think I know my problem, but want unbiased opinions. I will try to give as much information as I can.

TV is a 2007 Toyota Tundra with a 5.7. The TV is slightly lifted but has stock size tires and aftermarket trailer brake controller. I've towed many trailers/boats over the years with it without issue, but never one as long and as heavy as what we purchased. In looking for a trailer I kept all recommended weight limits in mind as well as the setup of the TV. We decided on a 2020 FR Grey Wolf 27RR toy hauler, GVWR 8010, UVW 6076. We purchased out of state, about 1200 miles away (too good a deal to pass up). We picked up the trailer and had an E2 WDH installed at the time. Since the garage on the TT was empty, it did sag the rear of the truck.

For the first 3 hours of the drive home it was back roads to another town where we picked up a RZR XP 1000. With that in the garage it lifted the front of the TT and the rear of the TV somewhat, but still some sag. From there we hit the highway and to say the drive home was white knuckles is an understatement. We did experience a lot of crosswind, which was no fun, but the worst was getting passed by the big rigs and getting that "sucked in" feeling. I kept my speeds down, which of course got me passed a lot but who cares. Safety first. I stopped frequently to verify everything looked okay, but it just never pulled the way I'm used to. Made it home okay in 2 days.

I decided the rear suspension of the TV needed a little help and got some air bags installed. Loaded the TT as we would for a trip and took it for a test drive. Truck was much more level and it seemed to help. The real issue came when we left for a 13 hour drive to Arizona. About 30 minutes in I just felt something wasn't right. Pulled over, checked the air bags and they seemed much too inflated (60 PSI). I dropped them down to 40 and went on my way. I should have listened to my gut because it still just didn't seem to be pulling as it should. Too much pull from the TT, some bounce and a little sway (can be the roads here). Pulled over, checked everything, it all looks good, but doesn't feel right. Continue on. About 3 hours in, just north of Salt Lake and I feel like I barely have control. Anyone whose driven though SLC knows I-15 is a mess and there was no way I was prepared. I pulled over, sat for about 30 minutes and informed my wife we were heading home. Still not a pleasant 3 1/2 hours but made it safely.

Since then I purchased a Weigh Safe hitch so I could see where my TW is. It sat at about 700, a little low. I played with air bag levels, hitch heights, moved some weight around in the TT and got it to 800, right around 10%. Put my WDH back on and took it for a drive. Still just doesn't track right. Decided to unload the RZR, that brought the HW to almost 1100, definitely too high for my TV. Decided to back the RZR into the garage so more weight would be towards the rear axle instead of the garage door. This brought the HW up to almost 900, more where I want to be. Put the WDH back on and back to the highway. Definitely better but not to the point where I would take it on an extended trip. So for now she sits in the garage.

If you made it this far, I am open to all thoughts, suggestions, sarcastic remarks, whatever you got. Do I need the trailer axles looked at (still under warranty), something else on the trailer or is my TV just not man enough for the job? I'm trying to borrow a larger truck to take it out to see if it pulls better but haven't gotten there yet.

TIA, I've already read through a lot of accident threads and I have no desire to post one of those. If I've left out any pertinent info just let me know.

My .02 says not enough TW and too high psi in airbags . the airbags shouldn't need more then 20 psi . forget level TV . use the WDH then it is what it is . no way to make the light weight Trundra better

[Gojurick]

Originally Posted by jd50i

Sounds like the WDH wasn't set up properly leaving the dealer if it was sagging and the WDH should be readjusted when the RZR was loaded. Airbags don't transfer the weight the WDH does so all the airbags are going to do is make it look level but the weight will still be there.


I would recheck your weight numbers, a 27RR might be close to maxing out your Tundra.

It is entirely possible the WDH was set up for the trailer when it was empty. I did check it out when I got home according to the manufacturer instructions, but I'm no expert. I can certainly have that looked at before a next trip.

I do know the bags won't increase any towing ability, but it did help level the truck. I took measurements before and after adding the TT and the rear was sagging about 4 inches and of course the front was getting raised. I was more worried about steering input at that point.

My first thought was that even thought he TT is within Toyota's tow limit (10K) and the truck and TT are within the GCVW (16K) it still might just be too big a job for this truck. My wife just thinks I want a new truck!! I told her I just want to be able to get where we're going without killing us or someone else.

[Gojurick]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Airbags will make your situation worst, besides the truck will look "level".
the reason is that airbags are good when the weight is in the cab over the rear axle.
When the weight is behind the rear axle, raising truck with airbags in fact reduce the weight in the front axle which reduce control and favors sway.
let the airbags deflated and set your WDH in a such way that the front of your truck is at the same hight when the camper is hitched as it was when the truck was empty.
That is a start.
I don't know your WDH but if you don't have a anti sway system, you should install one probably two of the below.
My camper is 9000lbs GVWR and I have two. I never had a problem with sway.
https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17200

I will keep that in mind about the airbags. I'm sure that's why it felt worse towing than before they were on. The E2 hitch does bill itself as weight distribution and sway control in one.

[jd50i]

Originally Posted by Gojurick

It is entirely possible the WDH was set up for the trailer when it was empty. I did check it out when I got home according to the manufacturer instructions, but I'm no expert. I can certainly have that looked at before a next trip.

I do know the bags won't increase any towing ability, but it did help level the truck. I took measurements before and after adding the TT and the rear was sagging about 4 inches and of course the front was getting raised. I was more worried about steering input at that point.

My first thought was that even thought he TT is within Toyota's tow limit (10K) and the truck and TT are within the GCVW (16K) it still might just be too big a job for this truck. My wife just thinks I want a new truck!! I told her I just want to be able to get where we're going without killing us or someone else.

Did the 10K and 16K numbers come out of your owners manual and the label in the drivers door or a brochure for the truck? Serious question.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Gojurick

... The E2 hitch does bill itself as weight distribution and sway control in one.

If that is the case, so probably more power in the bars to make the front of the truck go down will also add to the anti sway function.
You may want to tilt the ball all the way back to do so and get additional anti sway function :
https://www.rvhotlinecanada.com/deal...unt-angle/169/

[Gojurick]

Originally Posted by jd50i

Did the 10K and 16K numbers come out of your owners manual and the label in the drivers door or a brochure for the truck? Serious question.

Both are from Toyota's website. Not sure about the 16k, but the 10k tow rating is also in the owner's manual.

[CincyGus]

What does the payload sticker on your drivers side door jam say the max cargo weight should be? That's the number that most people towing a fairly heavy trailer with a half ton struggle to meet.

A toyhauler I've found since purchasing mine last fall and making 3-4 trips with it is much more sensitive to proper loading as far as TW goes. As you found out, you can change the TW nearly a couple hundred lbs by how you load it.

Using your fresh water tank to add or remove weight from the TW, depending on where it is located (Fore or Aft of the axles) can be of assistance once you get a pattern down of how you load your stuff. Think of it as fine tuning, depending on how much water you carry on your trip.

My guess is your payload (Passengers+whatever you carry in the truck and truck bed+ Hitch+TW) is over your number on that door jam. That and not enough TW (I run mine about 15% for best towing) AND/OR your Hitch needs some adjustment. That loss of response your feeling on the front end is hinting strongly that you don't have enough weight put back on the front thru the W/D Hitch or you just don't have enough truck for the weight/size trailer wind and aerodynamics your having to deal with pulling a big heavy box behind you.

A trip to the scales (with all the stuff and passengers you normally take) to get numbers of everything hitched and then the truck by itself would be time/money well spent to try to identify a solution if there is one for your trailer/truck combo.

[Gojurick]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

If that is the case, so probably more power in the bars to make the front of the truck go down will also add to the anti sway function.
You may want to tilt the ball all the way back to do so and get additional anti sway function :
https://www.rvhotlinecanada.com/deal...unt-angle/169/

Thanks, never seen that opinion before. I'll see how the hitch is adjustable.

[Boomerweps]

It sounds like your WDH needs to be adjusted for stronger leverage to put more weight forward on your steer axle. The air bags push the TV rear up but no more weight is being placed or replaced onto the steer axle.
After making sure you are meeting the WDH install specs and measurements like front fender heights, get thee to a CAT scale and find out how well the WDH is levering the weights. IF the FW tank is ahead of the axles, you may want to carry some water for tongue weight when the ATV is in the garage area.

[rbq]

In Salt Lake there is one of the most experienced hitch companies in the business called Pards. Was having hitch problems & stopped by for them to look at it & they determined that the hitch brackets should be replaced under Equalizer warranty. They called & got the approval and made the change out. Haven't had a problem since. 40 years of experience is good to have if you need to have the hitch checked out.

[ben31]

Tongue weight should really be closer to 15%. Even though the "standard" says 10-15%, when I had a pull-behind, it did much better at closer to 15%, than 10%. Try moving some of your gear into the front of the trailer and see if it helps.

https://www.weigh-safe.com/towing-sa...tongue-weight/

[Chief T]

I have the Fastway E2 system and the install guide states the following:

"Tow vehicle “auto-level” systems should also be disabled or turned off. If your
tow vehicle is equipped with air bags, we recommend that you inflate them to
the pressure you are expecting to tow with before setting up the hitch. Inflating them after hitch set up changes the relationship between tow vehicle and trailer, and can reduce the amount of weight distribution and sway control you get from your hitch."

[67L48]

The setup part of my WDH manual (Equal-I-zer 4 pt) is about 2 pages long. The rest of the manual is installation and all that stuff. Once everything is put together and installed, the load setup is critical ... and not too difficult. It took me about 20 minutes to set mine up. So, as others have said, start there. As was said above, you may need to set your airbags up, too.

You basically make three measurements: (1) makes some measurements on a the lone truck (nothing attached), (2) drop the trailer on the hitch with no WDH engaged, and (3) drop the trailer on the hitch with the WDH engaged. Based on the relative measurements, you make a few adjustments to the WDH settings and repeat (3). It may take a few iterations. Easy-peasy.

Make sure you do that with the loaded trailer ... with all the gear, ATVs, etc. that you'd have in it when you're towing down the road.

Make sure you've loaded it properly. As has been said several times, you don't want to be tongue-light. 10% is an absolute minimum, but 12-15% is a better range to hit. You'll probably want to have around 1,000 lbs on that hitch, assuming it weighs ~8,000 lbs loaded up.

That brings you to the final question: payload. As has been asked several times, what's your payload? It's on your truck's door jamb sticker.

You talk about "we" a lot in your post. So, I'll assume you have at least a spouse/partner. Maybe kids? You have a lift kit, which takes up weight. WDH is 30-50 lbs. What else is in your bed? Probably a gas can and other gear for the ATV?

Anyway, you have t0 add all those things up. Probably 500 lbs or more in/on your truck. Definitely more if you have kids, haul any bikes, wood, or stuff in your bed.

That means you'll need at least 1,500 lbs of payload, but could end up needing in excess of 1,800 lbs.

[Gojurick]

GVWR on the sticker is 7200. We often take our truck to the local dump, usually pulling a trailer, but sometimes with just the bed loaded. They take before and after scale measurements to know what to charge you. I found several of the receipts with no trailer. The highest weight with no payload and the wife and I was 6300. Add our 2 dogs (100) for trips. We try to carry nothing in the bed other than dog crates if we're towing, but add at the most 200 misc pounds and we'd be at 6600. If as I've read in various places you add tongue weight as payload and I'd definitely be over.

As far as trailer loading, the only thing we add rear of the axles is the RZR, everything else is forward. Of course some things could be arranged a little more forward for leverage, but the heaviest items are already in our front storage.

Sounds like I might be dealing with dual issues, improper WDH setup and maxing out the capabilities of the TV.

All good info and links. Much appreciated.

[bikendan]

I would never tow a toyhauler of that size, with the E2. You should've got its big brother, the 4 point Equal-i-zer WDH.
The E2 is fine for smaller regular TTs but with how finicky loading a toyhauler is, I'd want a beefier WDH.