New TV - 3/4 Ton Dodge or Ford?

[schrederman]

I'm bewildered by a fuel pump replacement costing between $10 -$15K...? Is it gold? Why would a fuel pump replacement cost that much? Not doubting what you wrote, just seeking an answer... I haven't done anything yet... Please reply.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by schrederman

I'm bewildered by a fuel pump replacement costing between $10 -$15K...? Is it gold? Why would a fuel pump replacement cost that much? Not doubting what you wrote, just seeking an answer... I haven't done anything yet... Please reply.

When the fuel pump goes, it sends aluminum shrapnel through the entire fuel system. Everything has to be replaced: lines, pump, injectors, fuel rails, filters- you name it. You can google "Ford HPFP NTSHA" and see lots of discussion on it. If you can find the response from Ford to an inquiry they received about the issue from the NHTSA, you will find Fords numbers on the occurrence. It is quite disturbing. By 4 year models out the rate was at almost 50 per thousand (5%), and it was climbing exponentially every year. This indicates it will become quite a problem as miles rack up on these things. I did find some mention of Dodge being involved in a class action lawsuit- but I know they use a slightly different pump at slightly lower pressure. You might research for issues there, too. The EPA is really trying to kill the diesel market with increased cost of a lower quality fuel and all of the emissions equipment. They've definitely priced me out of being able to drive one. It's sad when the $8K initial cost on a diesel is the cheap part.

[schrederman]

OK... to an old aircraft mechanic... that makes sense. I am probably going to reconsider trading for a year or so... I'll keep an ear to the ground to see how this pans out. My F-150 does OK in the meantime.

[RKR]

Originally Posted by schrederman

I'm torn between the excellent quality of every Ford I've ever owned and the reputation of the Cummins in the Dodge. I have a couple of friends with the Rams, and they seem pretty happy so far, though both are fairly new. Chevy and GMC are out for me for my own reasons, which I'll keep to myself. I have never owned a diesel before and I would very much like to know real world experiences including mileage, (towing and not), service costs, repairs, options, and general quality. I really don't want a bunch "mine's better'n yours" BS so if that's all ya got... please save it... Thanks in advance...

It pretty much depends on you personal preference.
I have spent most of my life working in the oilfield and have driven all the makes of HD trucks gas and diesel.
In the last 5 years I have driven all 3 makes. I prefer diesel pickups. They just pull a lot better.
I currently am driving a gas Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4. I have put 33K on it since March. Not much power for towing compared to the Cummins. We're about to go back to Fords due to pricing. Chevy's are too much $.
When I bought my own HD pickup I chose a Chevy. My favorite company truck was a Chevy 2500 with a Duramax.
It is the best riding and most comfortable HD truck I have driven in the oilfield and that translated to a real comfortable highway tow rig. I also like the engine brake, very seldom do I need to hit my brakes going down any hills or grades. The Allison transmission is also pretty sweet.
I have 50K on it and it hasn't missed a beat or seen a dealer.

Just my humble opinion and I'm not looking for the mine is better than yours argument. It's a personal choice and the Chevy just had a better ride and fit me better.

Buy whatever makes you happy.

[Stub-KB-2]

As you are only looking at new trucks, and GM is out, consider the following.

i will say Boldly that i am a Ford Guy.

I will Give Ram its due, i have friends with Rams, and they are great pieces of equipment, no doubt.

i will say nothing to detract from the Ram as a vehicle, i will say however that Ford did not take federal bailout money.

that to me says it all!

on the fuel pump thing, i wouldn't run any diesel of any vintage without using some additive (choose your favorite) to add lubricity.

low sulpher fuel = low lubricity, they all face premature failure due to this.

we have a 2012 F-350 6.7 used as a company truck.

power to spare, quiet, wondeful.

depending on the driver (some very abusive) the truck gets 15-22 empty, and 7.5 - 12 towing.

we haven't had any costs above standard maintenance.

[Oakman]

From what I've read about the fuel pump issues most of these failures were the result of operator error, i.e. gasoline in the tank, DEF in the fuel tank, etc.

[dwaynerz]

power service at most every fill in the warmer months, but definetly every fill in the winter. had not even thought of the fuel pump letting go, but i worry more about fuel gelling. it takes a looooonnnnng time to get fuel to ungel.

[RKR]

Originally Posted by RKR

It pretty much depends on you personal preference. I have spent most of my life working in the oilfield and have driven all the makes of HD trucks gas and diesel. In the last 5 years I have driven all 3 makes. I prefer diesel pickups. They just pull a lot better. I currently am driving a gas Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4. I have put 33K on it since March. Not much power for towing compared to the Cummins. We're about to go back to Fords due to pricing. Chevy's are too much $. When I bought my own HD pickup I chose a Chevy. My favorite company truck was a Chevy 2500 with a Duramax. It is the best riding and most comfortable HD truck I have driven in the oilfield and that translated to a real comfortable highway tow rig. I also like the engine brake, very seldom do I need to hit my brakes going down any hills or grades. The Allison transmission is also pretty sweet. I have 50K on it and it hasn't missed a beat or seen a dealer. Just my humble opinion and I'm not looking for the mine is better than yours argument. It's a personal choice and the Chevy just had a better ride and fit me better. Buy whatever makes you happy.

For what it's worth I forgot mention that Dodge announced a recall last week for 1.2 million 2500 and 3500 series. It's a tie rod issue that I believe dates back to 2008.

[chiefly1]

My Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins with just over 50K miles has been issue free with no maintenance other than oil changes and the like. I love the power, engine brake and tow haul when pulling. This truck just pulls our 5er in the hills better and descends safer than the other makes that are in our camping club. I bought mine after researching the Cummins and Allison combination for reliability and durability and there was nothing to equal it. That was a few years ago and Ford has since improved quality but for real life experience the Dodge has been reliable, problem free, great pulling power and good MPG towing over 12,000 pounds and getting 13.2 while doing it.

[schrederman]

Ford not taking taxpayer money is a plus for me as well. My main reasons for narrowing this down is that I used to manage a work group that consisted of 24 people and myself, and 25 vehicles. The maintenance of these came out of my budget... and the Fords, even though I had 14 of them, were by far the cheapest to operate for long periods. I spent less on them than the other 2 brands even though there were about twice as many. The Chevys and Dodges were about even, with the exception of the one Dodge diesel we had... It was a good one. So, I am not knocking the GM products, and I am very glad that some are getting great service from them... but my last 2 that I personally owned were lemons, and I swore never to own one again.

Thanks for all the info, folks...

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Oakman

From what I've read about the fuel pump issues most of these failures were the result of operator error, i.e. gasoline in the tank, DEF in the fuel tank, etc.

I would say it is probably true that many of the failures are from operator error. However, Bosch clearly states that the pump CP4.2 pump is designed to run on 460 scar diesel, yet 520 scar is the standard in the US. Lower scar number means more lubricity. I am fairly confident you could run the Motorcraft additive from day one and not have any issues as this would likely bring the fuel into spec. You have to buy new to know this, and my truck had 60K on it when I bought it. I had no way of knowing if it had been run with the additive, but I'd put my money on it not having been. Most people don't think that they have to run a fuel additive in a brand new vehicle- we assume it should run on the fuel available. Also, keep in mind that even if you do run the additive, there is no way to prove that to a future buyer. If this fuel pump thing turns into a big debacle, you can bet that your resale value is going to take a HUGE hit, just like the Ford 6.0 diesel values. There were some of those out there that ran fine and had no problems, but they still brought $8-$10K less than they should have because people assumed(and rightly so) that they'd have major issues at some point. As I mentioned earlier, keep in mind that GM uses the same fuel pump. They are honoring repairs under warranty, but that still won't negate the potential hit in resale value if it becomes a widespread problem.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by schrederman

Ford not taking taxpayer money is a plus for me as well. My main reasons for narrowing this down is that I used to manage a work group that consisted of 24 people and myself, and 25 vehicles. The maintenance of these came out of my budget... and the Fords, even though I had 14 of them, were by far the cheapest to operate for long periods. I spent less on them than the other 2 brands even though there were about twice as many. The Chevys and Dodges were about even, with the exception of the one Dodge diesel we had... It was a good one. So, I am not knocking the GM products, and I am very glad that some are getting great service from them... but my last 2 that I personally owned were lemons, and I swore never to own one again.

Thanks for all the info, folks...

I feel the same way about the bailout deal. Have you considered an F-150 with the Ecoboost? That's what I've got now. Will it pull like the 6.7? Nope. But it'll beat the pants off of any V-8 out right now- unless you're one of those guys that likes to rev to 4500 rpm and downshift 2 gears every time you hit an incline. If the biggest thing you are pulling is the SV-264, this should be way more than enough truck for you. BTW, you can get 2013 F-150's right now for over 12K off of sticker price. Mine stickered for 43,850 and I paid just over 31. It's an XLT with the 302A package-about as loaded as an XLT gets. Edit: SCrew, 4x4, Ecoboost

[whj77372]

Down here in SE Texas were most men drive pickups, they are fifth percent of registrations, there are more Dodge/Ram 3/4 ton diesel pickups them, Fords or Chev/GMAC. When I was looking, 2010/2011, I found that as stated above, the Chev/GMAC were a lot more $s then the other two. The Dodges/Rams were less then the others, Ford and Chev/GMAC.
More of the men that I know have Dodges, but they have complaints, transmission issues, rear end issues and low MPG are the ones that I have heard most often. Many of them indicate that they got them because they were cheaper then the other two.
When I was looking last half of 2010 thru March of 2011, I found that the used ones were not what I wanted, well used, lots of miles on them and the asking price was a lot more then I would pay for what you got. Not just at dealers on online as well.
After seven months of looking, I got a new 2011 F250 XLT, CC, diesel, longbed, RWD. I paid $39,125 for it and I feel that was about the best that I could do. Good Luck

[jlbreaux]

Originally Posted by jevanb

I also have 550hp get 22 empty 12.5 towing at max weight

How do you get 22 empty and 12.5 towing? I get about 14 empty and 9 towing.

[RKR]

Originally Posted by chiefly1

My Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins with just over 50K miles has been issue free with no maintenance other than oil changes and the like. I love the power, engine brake and tow haul when pulling. This truck just pulls our 5er in the hills better and descends safer than the other makes that are in our camping club. I bought mine after researching the Cummins and Allison combination for reliability and durability and there was nothing to equal it. That was a few years ago and Ford has since improved quality but for real life experience the Dodge has been reliable, problem free, great pulling power and good MPG towing over 12,000 pounds and getting 13.2 while doing it.

I'm not trying to be a smart ***** here. We had a 2011 Dodge 3500 in our fleet break a tie rod while driving. Luckily there was no injuries. Dodge is having a recall on many HD trucks right now for front end issues. The owner of our company is turning all of our Dodge lease trucks in for safety and getting a new make.
Again , I know how most are pretty sensitive about there TV. I'm just trying to keep people safe and informed.

God bless

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/11...2-ram-hds.html

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I feel the same way about the bailout deal...

OK, just for the record, Ford didn’t file bankruptcy or get bailed out by Uncle Sam, but did receive $5.9 billion in low-cost government loans in 2009 to overhaul its factories and bring out more fuel-efficient technology.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

[dustman_stx]

[QUOTE=OldCoot;498359]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I feel the same way about the bailout deal.../QUOTE]

OK, just for the record, Ford didn’t file bankruptcy or get bailed out by Uncle Sam, but did receive $5.9 billion in low-cost government loans in 2009 to overhaul its factories and bring out more fuel-efficient technology.
Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts

We are all getting low cost government loans. What do you think is keeping interest rates so low? The Fed. That's not the same as selling a chunk of the company to the govt. to stay afloat- which is what I think happened with GM. I'm sure others can offer a much better explanation of exactly what went on with GM, but I don't think they simply took low cost gov. loans.

[schrederman]

I've been an aircraft mechanic most of my life. Not working as one, but doing some part-time volunteer work for my flying club over the years. My knowledge of things mechanical is pretty good. My knowledge of turbocharged engines comes from having helped rebuild a Rolls Royce Merlin engine for a friend that had a P-51... I am not a fan of turbocharged gasoline engines put under the stress of pulling loads over long periods. The Ecoboost is a great engine, but I am dubious as to how one will perform at 150K miles, especially if it has many pulling miles on it. Only time will tell. Materials used in engine construction have progressed, I'm sure, but I'll still have to play the wait-and-see on that one. I currently have a 5.0 equipped F-150 and it does OK.

I am already a bit jaded about having to buy DEF for a new truck... and it is asking too much, in my opinion, to have to buy a fuel additive on top of everything else. My cost per mile of driving or pulling was part of the reason I am thinking about moving to a diesel. With these extra costs, I am really thinking it's not really worth it. I am very disappointed that the manufacturers are using fuel pumps that are not designed for the fuel we run in this country... and apparently, it's all of them... What are they thinking?

[Stub-KB-2]

I am not a fan of turbocharged gasoline engines put under the stress of pulling loads over long periods. The Ecoboost is a great engine, but I am dubious as to how one will perform at 150K miles, especially if it has many pulling miles on it. Only time will tell. Materials used in engine construction have progressed, I'm sure, but I'll still have to play the wait-and-see on that one. I currently have a 5.0 equipped F-150 and it does OK.


i agree with you whole heartedly, but keep in mind that these engines are designed with a 20% duty cycle. they are not designed to pull all of the time.
i have considered buying the new Ford 6.2 Gasser in a 1 ton.
everyone seems to forget what we did with the gas big blocks back in the day. the new big gas engines put out better #'s than my 7.3 powerstrokes. they have a 6 speed trans, and are cheaper to buy and maintain than the diesel.

[dwaynerz]

Ford didn’t file bankruptcy or get bailed out by Uncle Sam, but did receive $5.9 billion in low-cost government loans in 2009 to overhaul its factories and bring out more fuel-efficient technology.

a low cost loan sounds much better than a bail out. ask the stock holders how they feel about the "loan" they got.

as far as additives go, i usually only add in the winter time. you just know the fuel will gel at the most inappropriate time (murphys law).